Loss of momentum when attacking

[Babylon]

We didn't put enough men forward, but also 4 of our attack minded players were aged  22, 22, 22, 21 and the CM tasked with being creative can't pass and is also 21. Which invariably means some poor decision making.

[HighPeakFox]

1 hour ago, F1_AN said:

Can I mention here my hatred of bringing every player back to defend corners?

just keep one up to at least give their defence something to think about if the ball breaks out 

I don't often agree with you, but here you're spot on. 

[Finnegan]

On 08/12/2018 at 23:44, Bert said:

It’s because we don’t commit enough people forward or in the right areas. 

 

This. I had a bit of a rant about this in another thread a couple weeks back. 

 

Everyone is ridiculously spaced out, too far apart, in awful positions, leaving the ball carrier with impossible and awful choices that nearly always end with playing it safely backwards or giving it away. 

 

Our movement and positioning is the worst I've ever, ever seen it. Or at least, since we got relegated to League One that is. 

[Finnegan]

32 minutes ago, Babylon said:

We didn't put enough men forward, but also 4 of our attack minded players were aged  22, 22, 22, 21 and the CM tasked with being creative can't pass and is also 21. Which invariably means some poor decision making.

 

But that's what makes quality coaching all the more important. 

 

I made a comment last year about Puel being poor at handling young players and got a mouthful back because he'd given debuts or first team football to a bunch of kids. 

 

My point then and now is the same, simply selecting them isn't good coaching or management. You need to handle them, nurture them. Regularly throwing Gray and Iheanacho in and out of the team in different positions with different personnel around them isn't good management or coaching. Dropping them to the bench every time they don't perform isn't nurturing young players. Its just shafting their confidence, something both of those two look drastically short of (hint: cheering when they get subbed off won't help mind.)

 

Who has actually improved, other than Chilwell, since he came in? 

 

Gray is no better, Diabate is no better, Iheanacho is no better, Ndidi is no better, if anything some of these guys are going backwards. Ndidi is seriously struggling. 

 

You can give debuts to half the u13s if you want it doesn't make you a great youth coach if you aren't actually coaching them. 

 

It's been over a year and most of the team still don't have a clue how to play possession football. There comes a point you have to stop claiming "He doesn't have the right players" and start saying "he should be doing better with them than he is." Should it really be all that difficult to teach basic movement and the wisdom of passing and then moving to a bunch of pros? 

 

If you can play possession football in League Two, you can play it with Premier league footballers that used to play counter attacking, you just need to work with them. 

 

I don't see any progress at all in the team. We still, even now, only really look good when we revert to type and play quickly and directly (Watford home, Huddersfield home, etc.)

 

[Dames]

13 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

But that's what makes quality coaching all the more important. 

 

I made a comment last year about Puel being poor at handling young players and got a mouthful back because he'd given debuts or first team football to a bunch of kids. 

 

My point then and now is the same, simply selecting them isn't good coaching or management. You need to handle them, nurture them. Regularly throwing Gray and Iheanacho in and out of the team in different positions with different personnel around them isn't good management or coaching. Dropping them to the bench every time they don't perform isn't nurturing young players. Its just shafting their confidence, something both of those two look drastically short of (hint: cheering when they get subbed off won't help mind.)

 

Who has actually improved, other than Chilwell, since he came in? 

 

Gray is no better, Diabate is no better, Iheanacho is no better, Ndidi is no better, if anything some of these guys are going backwards. Ndidi is seriously struggling. 

 

You can give debuts to half the u13s if you want it doesn't make you a great youth coach if you aren't actually coaching them. 

 

It's been over a year and most of the team still don't have a clue how to play possession football. There comes a point you have to stop claiming "He doesn't have the right players" and start saying "he should be doing better with them than he is." Should it really be all that difficult to teach basic movement and the wisdom of passing and then moving to a bunch of pros? 

 

If you can play possession football in League Two, you can play it with Premier league footballers that used to play counter attacking, you just need to work with them. 

 

I don't see any progress at all in the team. We still, even now, only really look good when we revert to type and play quickly and directly (Watford home, Huddersfield home, etc.)

 

Couldn’t have put this better myself. Sums up pretty much everything thats wrong at the moment.

[Babylon]

20 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

But that's what makes quality coaching all the more important. 

 

I made a comment last year about Puel being poor at handling young players and got a mouthful back because he'd given debuts or first team football to a bunch of kids. 

 

My point then and now is the same, simply selecting them isn't good coaching or management. You need to handle them, nurture them. Regularly throwing Gray and Iheanacho in and out of the team in different positions with different personnel around them isn't good management or coaching. Dropping them to the bench every time they don't perform isn't nurturing young players. Its just shafting their confidence, something both of those two look drastically short of (hint: cheering when they get subbed off won't help mind.)

 

Who has actually improved, other than Chilwell, since he came in? 

 

Gray is no better, Diabate is no better, Iheanacho is no better, Ndidi is no better, if anything some of these guys are going backwards. Ndidi is seriously struggling. 

 

You can give debuts to half the u13s if you want it doesn't make you a great youth coach if you aren't actually coaching them. 

 

It's been over a year and most of the team still don't have a clue how to play possession football. There comes a point you have to stop claiming "He doesn't have the right players" and start saying "he should be doing better with them than he is." Should it really be all that difficult to teach basic movement and the wisdom of passing and then moving to a bunch of pros? 

 

If you can play possession football in League Two, you can play it with Premier league footballers that used to play counter attacking, you just need to work with them. 

 

I don't see any progress at all in the team. We still, even now, only really look good when we revert to type and play quickly and directly (Watford home, Huddersfield home, etc.)

 

All fair points, I think he has until the end of the season to really show some sort of progression.

[Finnegan]

4 minutes ago, Babylon said:

All fair points, I think he has until the end of the season to really show some sort of progression.

 

Yeah, there's absolutely zero chance of him getting sacked mid season IMO. 

 

I think they'll spend the rest of the season sounding out replacements. You're always going to get crap if you replace during the year. 

[Babylon]

1 minute ago, Finnegan said:

 

Yeah, there's absolutely zero chance of him getting sacked mid season IMO. 

 

I think they'll spend the rest of the season sounding out replacements. You're always going to get crap if you replace during the year. 

The problem is, we seem to do almost zero forward planning for managers. Hence why we always seem to end up with some random who is out of work. I've got little faith in them getting the next appointment right, even if they sack him in the summer.

 

I wouldn't be shocked if they are happy to take bland midtable for another year after this to get more money in the bank with little risk, so that we can pay off the training ground etc.

[Finnegan]

30 minutes ago, Babylon said:

The problem is, we seem to do almost zero forward planning for managers. Hence why we always seem to end up with some random who is out of work. I've got little faith in them getting the next appointment right, even if they sack him in the summer.

 

I wouldn't be shocked if they are happy to take bland midtable for another year after this to get more money in the bank with little risk, so that we can pay off the training ground etc.

 

Well yeah. I'm not saying we'll get a great replacement. 

 

IMO, the single biggest argument for keeping Puel is we're all terrified of who they'll come up with next

 

I mean literally best case scenario is Rodgers when Gerrard embarrasses him this year and he leaves Scotland under a cloud. That isn't inspiring. 

[mod hero]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

But that's what makes quality coaching all the more important. 

 

I made a comment last year about Puel being poor at handling young players and got a mouthful back because he'd given debuts or first team football to a bunch of kids. 

 

My point then and now is the same, simply selecting them isn't good coaching or management. You need to handle them, nurture them. Regularly throwing Gray and Iheanacho in and out of the team in different positions with different personnel around them isn't good management or coaching. Dropping them to the bench every time they don't perform isn't nurturing young players. Its just shafting their confidence, something both of those two look drastically short of (hint: cheering when they get subbed off won't help mind.)

 

Who has actually improved, other than Chilwell, since he came in? 

 

Gray is no better, Diabate is no better, Iheanacho is no better, Ndidi is no better, if anything some of these guys are going backwards. Ndidi is seriously struggling. 

 

You can give debuts to half the u13s if you want it doesn't make you a great youth coach if you aren't actually coaching them. 

 

It's been over a year and most of the team still don't have a clue how to play possession football. There comes a point you have to stop claiming "He doesn't have the right players" and start saying "he should be doing better with them than he is." Should it really be all that difficult to teach basic movement and the wisdom of passing and then moving to a bunch of pros? 

 

If you can play possession football in League Two, you can play it with Premier league footballers that used to play counter attacking, you just need to work with them. 

 

I don't see any progress at all in the team. We still, even now, only really look good when we revert to type and play quickly and directly (Watford home, Huddersfield home, etc.)

 

Top post pal ????

[Evington Fosse Fox]

One line of thought is:

 

1.Ship Nacho off on loan to the Scottish SPL pub league or another league in order to get some confidence back (assuming he does not do a Slimani and goofs up on loan). . Failing that, go to the Man City's trillionaire Sheik with the receipt and ask for a full refund! 

 

2. In the Jan transfer window, find an experienced journey man with ariel threat who can be nuisance in the box with Chilwell, Albrighton and Ricardo crosses. If this journeyman is Slim and this is the best Rudkin has to offer, we will be fcuk'd. Not sure if Andy 'sicknote' Carol is available to fill this void. 

 

 

 

 

[HighPeakFox]

Non - technical appraisal of the current state of affairs... I think the players play with fear. I'm not interested in ascribing blame, as the reasons will be complex and multifarious, but my sense is that the group mentality is one of being scared to commit an error... The irony is that they are more likely to because of that very thinking. 

[siraaj_lcfc]

5 minutes ago, Evington Fosse Fox said:

One line of thought is:

 

1.Ship Nacho off on loan to the Scottish SPL pub league or another league in order to get some confidence back (assuming he does not do a Slimani and goofs up on loan). . Failing that, go to the Man City's trillionaire Sheik with the receipt and ask for a full refund! 

 

2. In the Jan transfer window, find an experienced journey man with Ariel threat who can be nuisance in the box with Chilwell, Albrighton and Ricardo crosses. If this journeyman is Slim and this is the best Rudkin has to offer, we will be fcuk'd. Not sure if Andy 'sicknote' Carol is available to fill this void. 

 

 

 

 

I Reckon Andrea Belotti Is What Ur Looking For. Quick, Can Actually Finish Chances, And Is A Good Ariel Threat.

Pardon My Use Of Capital Letters.

[siraaj_lcfc]

Just now, pmcla26 said:

Find £70 million for us to spend then 

Are you forgetting how much money we have to spend? Mahrez and Kante and Danny's transfers. Besides he wouldn't cost 70 Mill.

[siraaj_lcfc]

Just now, pmcla26 said:

It’s not just the money we have to spend it’s attracting the players to come here, but also with the wage bill we can’t just spend big, it’s the whole layout. Otherwise we probably would have got Anderson in the summer instead of West Ham when we were linked etc. 

And £70 million was the fee I saw quoted for Belotti in the summer to Chelsea so just going off of that 

If I were Chelsea I'd go for Icardi and not Belotti. I reckon we have more than enough money. How much did we get from our European Tour?

[siraaj_lcfc]

Why would Anderson go to West Ham, don't get it. They're DooDoo.

[foxinsocks]

Who would give the money to puel?  Thing is with money is u can only spend it once

[Max Wall]

18 minutes ago, Evington Fosse Fox said:

One line of thought is:

 

1.Ship Nacho off on loan to the Scottish SPL pub league or another league in order to get some confidence back (assuming he does not do a Slimani and goofs up on loan). . Failing that, go to the Man City's trillionaire Sheik with the receipt and ask for a full refund! 

 

2. In the Jan transfer window, find an experienced journey man with ariel threat who can be nuisance in the box with Chilwell, Albrighton and Ricardo crosses. If this journeyman is Slim and this is the best Rudkin has to offer, we will be fcuk'd. Not sure if Andy 'sicknote' Carol is available to fill this void. 

 

 

 

 

There's a flaw in your cunning plan. We'd need to buy a back up for Carroll for the 36 games of the season he's injured too.

[siraaj_lcfc]

1 minute ago, pmcla26 said:

Or in Leicester’s case we can spend it multiple times and get it wrong nearly every single time

Leicester can't spend big. We were best at recruiting smaller players. I mean, Vardy, Mahrez, Kante. Some of the best players in the PL in recent years. Go back to what we do best.

[siraaj_lcfc]

Just now, pmcla26 said:

Only two successes from spending big have been Maddison and Ndidi, all the rest have been terrible

How much was Ndidi? 18 or something was it? Maddison is getting back to his best now.

[siraaj_lcfc]

1 minute ago, pmcla26 said:

Yeah 18 was what I thought and agreed, even if he hadn’t a quiet game against spurs but the whole team did so no blame there

I think Ndidi needs a rest. He's playing so much for a player so young as well.

[Trav Le Bleu]

On 09/12/2018 at 00:20, Captain... said:

I don’t know what they do in training, but when you see this style of play done successfully it needs a striker that can hold the ball up and bring others into play, giving the three a chance to break the lines and get in behind.

 

Nacho doesn’t do this, Vardy doesn’t do it often enough, Shinji is arguably the best at this but was not very good when asked to play that role.

 

The other thing that this formation/style needs is quick interplay. We saw it with Okazaki setting up Maddison on Wednesday and a couple of times with Ghezzal late in the game today, but not enough.

 

There are 2 main problems in attack, we are too static as a unit, but especially the striker, whether it is Nacho or Vardy they don’t come deep looking for the ball dragging the centre back with them creating space for others to exploit. Static striker means set defence means no space so we end up with the ball going backwards or sideways and losing momentum.

 

Problem 2 is that we have no aerial threat, I don’t want to turn into Burnley, but we have zero aerial threat so all the energy and effort to work a good opening out wide is wasted as soon as we cross it.

Slimani is tops at that, we could... oh, wait...

[siraaj_lcfc]

1 minute ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Slimani is tops at that, we could... oh, wait...

Tbh, Vardy and Nacho aren't thaatttt bad in the air. Neither is Paps.

[Captain...]

14 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Slimani is tops at that, we could... oh, wait...

It is frustrating that at no point we really tried Slimani or Ulloa in that position, or kept them as an option off the bench. Slimani vs Huddersfield on new years day looked to be a watershed moment, it was a great goal and one of his best performances for a year. I think that was his last game before going on loan to Newcastle.

 

I think bridges have been burnt with Slimani, but there is no reason why we can't have a Giroud style player without abandoning Puel's philosophy.

[Finnegan]

59 minutes ago, siraaj_lcfc said:

Are you forgetting how much money we have to spend? Mahrez and Kante and Danny's transfers. Besides he wouldn't cost 70 Mill.

 

We could have 200m he still wouldn't come here. 

 

Edit: oh and he's gone ridiculously off the boil as well