What are the Players doing wrong?

[Raw Dykes]

On 15/12/2018 at 19:19, cityfanlee23 said:

Yep,

 

I had a heated debate with someone the other day who claimed the reason we start games slow is because Puel doesn't "inspire them" as if grown adults need their manager to get them fired up for a game they will earn hundreds of thousands from!

They seem to forget that we were a 2nd half team under Pearson, for the most part under Ranieri we improved in the second half and also under Shakey. 

 

But no, it's Puel being boring that causes the players not to wake up and organise themselves early doors.

Money isn't the be all and end all. I don't believe your bank account affects your ability to do your job, unless you're completely skint and stressed about it. Besides, they get paid whether they win or lose, so how is that meant to be any sort of incentive to perform well?

 

Of course a manager can inspire a team! I think you're much more likely to perform well if your boss gives an uplifting speech in an energetic way. You might feel pumped up and ready to run through walls in that case. Conversely, if your boss is mumbling quietly in a barely comprehensible accent, you're much more likely to be fighting to keep your eyelids from closing, are you not? Can you not imagine the difference in your energy levels in these two situations?

 

Have you seriously never heard or read anyone say something that inspires you?

 

I don't know about anyone else, but I always used to listen to Pearson's post-match interviews and I paid attention to what he said. I still stay tuned for Puel's interviews after each game, but I find myself tuning out after seconds, and then realise at the end that I have no memory at all of what he said.

 

I can easily believe that Puel is a particularly uninspiring coach, based on how he speaks in interviews. You've probably heard people say that a football team is a reflection of the personality of the manager. I think there's some truth in that. Look at, say, Liverpool, and how they press. This intensity and energy is mirrored in Klopp in the way he speaks in interviews and how he behaves on the touchline. He looks like he's always buzzing. Similarly, our team is pondorous, reserved and, at times, lethargic, and this is similar to Puel in interviews.

 

We had an argument before about whether a manager can affect their staff's behaviour at all. You were (I think bizarrely) arguing the point that in fact they cannot. You thought that no matter how strict or lenient a manager is, the behaviour of the staff remains totally unaffected. Now you seem to be saying that a manager has no way of inspiring their staff to perform better than they would if left to their own devices.

 

I have to ask, exactly what do you think the point of a manager is? Why don't football teams just do away with them altogether if they can't possibly control the behaviour of the staff or inspire them to perform well?

[StriderHiryu]

On 16/12/2018 at 10:01, GingerrrFox said:

I’ve already explained in more detail in the Puel out thread but to summarise; go and watch how Ajax play the 4-2-3-1, particularly the game against Bayern this past week in the Champions League. It was the perfect embodiment of possession football in this system.

 

The goalkeeper very rarely went long, always tried to play it forward and simple into the centre backs or the two CDMs.

 

The full backs held the width and played high and wide.

 

The centre backs both comfortable on the ball with a varied passing range either going short or switching the play to either full back on the flanks.

 

The midfield two were constantly trying to play the ball forwards, only went backwards if it was necessary to keep hold of possession if they found themselves in a tight situation.

 

The 3 behind the striker were constant movement, one minute Ziyech is on the right then he’s interchanged with Neres to the left. Constant movement to find space and throw off the defence.

 

Tadic up top either looking to threaten in behind or play 1-2s to open space for the 3 behind him.

 

It was high tempo possession football and if they lost the ball, as a team they pressed fast and high to try and win the ball back or force Bayern into making an error. 

 

That is how the 4-2-3-1 should be played.

 

This is an awesome post! The system we play *can* be brilliant but it’s hard to achieve. 

 

With Ajax, you’re talking about a team that from youth level focus on technique and football intelligence. The Ajax and Dutch teams of the 70’s were majestic and even Van Gaal’s 95 Ajax team were superb. 

 

The problem is is though I find it harder and harder to see Puel get us to play that way. In some games I have seen pressing together as a team and we are good at full back overloads. But how often do we achieve incisive passing and cutting through the opposition? Our attackers are too static and passing is too slow and sideways. Is it because of our players or it the coach? It’s probably a combination of the two. 

 

I hoped that we’d see the players be more daring this season but make mistakes as a result of it. But that’s what is super frustrating... we rarely even try to be daring and we just pass it sideways. Let’s say we lost to Palace but as a result of being too cavalier and getting caught out of position... at least we’d be able to see the idea of what the manager wants to achieve. At the start of the season we played some good stuff but in recent games versus Fulham, Spurs and Palace I’ve not even seen that. 

 

 

[GingerrrFox]

43 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

This is an awesome post! The system we play *can* be brilliant but it’s hard to achieve. 

 

With Ajax, you’re talking about a team that from youth level focus on technique and football intelligence. The Ajax and Dutch teams of the 70’s were majestic and even Van Gaal’s 95 Ajax team were superb. 

 

The problem is is though I find it harder and harder to see Puel get us to play that way. In some games I have seen pressing together as a team and we are good at full back overloads. But how often do we achieve incisive passing and cutting through the opposition? Our attackers are too static and passing is too slow and sideways. Is it because of our players or it the coach? It’s probably a combination of the two. 

 

I hoped that we’d see the players be more daring this season but make mistakes as a result of it. But that’s what is super frustrating... we rarely even try to be daring and we just pass it sideways. Let’s say we lost to Palace but as a result of being too cavalier and getting caught out of position... at least we’d be able to see the idea of what the manager wants to achieve. At the start of the season we played some good stuff but in recent games versus Fulham, Spurs and Palace I’ve not even seen that. 

 

 

I think the main issue is that we are really lacking creativity in the middle of the park and need someone who will dictate the tempo of play. We need to sacrifice one of Ndidi or Mendy in the starting 11 to make way for a playmaker. For Ajax, Blind was the more defensive of the 2 (in comparison to De Jong) but technically his passing range is still far superior to Ndidi/Mendy. 

 

In in the summer we need to be looking for a player to replicate the Frenkie De Jong role, someone along the lines of Weigl, Tonali, Campana or Sander Berge. Holding midfielders who are solid but their main attribute is as a playmaker. I think that would revolutionise our team. 

[StriderHiryu]

11 minutes ago, GingerrrFox said:

I think the main issue is that we are really lacking creativity in the middle of the park and need someone who will dictate the tempo of play. We need to sacrifice one of Ndidi or Mendy in the starting 11 to make way for a playmaker. For Ajax, Blind was the more defensive of the 2 (in comparison to De Jong) but technically his passing range is still far superior to Ndidi/Mendy. 

 

In in the summer we need to be looking for a player to replicate the Frenkie De Jong role, someone along the lines of Weigl, Tonali, Campana or Sander Berge. Holding midfielders who are solid but their main attribute is as a playmaker. I think that would revolutionise our team. 

Yes I think a lot of the fans agree with you. Ndidi is a defensive beast but his forward passing is very poor and he panics under pressure. Mendy I think is a good midfield dynamo but is not the most creative. I think if Maddison was more experienced / better and on the Ziyech level it might not matter as much, equally if we still had Mahrez then a double pivot with two creative forwards might work out very well. 

 

Another option that has been suggested on here is to play Maddison as a number 8 (which he did in some games for Norwich) and Ghezall as the 10 as he did against Burnley. Perhaps if we played both plus Mendy then we might have a lot more creativity in the team, but might miss out on defensive stability. Kind of suprised Puel hasnt tried it given he likes to change the team every game!

[Raw Dykes]

8 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

Yes I think a lot of the fans agree with you. Ndidi is a defensive beast but his forward passing is very poor and he panics under pressure. Mendy I think is a good midfield dynamo but is not the most creative. I think if Maddison was more experienced / better and on the Ziyech level it might not matter as much, equally if we still had Mahrez then a double pivot with two creative forwards might work out very well. 

 

Another option that has been suggested on here is to play Maddison as a number 8 (which he did in some games for Norwich) and Ghezall as the 10 as he did against Burnley. Perhaps if we played both plus Mendy then we might have a lot more creativity in the team, but might miss out on defensive stability. Kind of suprised Puel hasnt tried it given he likes to change the team every game!

I've considered your idea of playing Maddison further back with Ghezzal as the no.10. I think it would all hinge on Maddison's defensive abilities, really.

 

I think Ghezzal has looked better as a no.10 than a winger, and I think there could possibly be a decent player in him. We might well struggle defensively, but then Maddison is a very young player and could possibly be moulded into the player we need.

 

Not sure if it would work, but I think it could be worth a try. 

 

There's certainly not enough creativity in Mendy & Ndidi, and it's a real achilles' heel of the team that needs fixing somehow.

[Chester Dontlie]

They don't train shooting penalties properly!!!!!

 

[Itsthejoeker]

Doing shit things.

[TeamRocket]

Maybe its not the player per say its the manager picking the wrong set of player  

[Daggers]

On 15/12/2018 at 17:31, cityfanlee23 said:

Personally I can't wait for us to sack puel just so we can get on the back of the next manager when we are not challenging the top 4 in 10 games.

 

[insert name here] out!

 

I always said he would prove to be tactically/professionally weak with poor personnel management/buying decisions/body odour. It is clear that he has lost the changing room/his mind/his car keys and is unable to win/wave his shoes/fix the hanging baskets. Also, my source says he has a problem with cocaine/the chairman/Rachel Riley.

 

It’s time to appoint Paul Ince and sign Maradonna/Joey/get-well-soon cards.

 

Foxes never quit (until relegation)!

[Nick]

17 minutes ago, Daggers said:

[insert name here] out!

 

I always said he would prove to be tactically/professionally weak with poor personnel management/buying decisions/body odour. It is clear that he has lost the changing room/his mind/his car keys and is unable to win/wave his shoes/fix the hanging baskets. Also, my source says he has a problem with cocaine/the chairman/Rachel Riley.

 

It’s time to appoint Paul Ince and sign Maradonna/Joey/get-well-soon cards.

 

Foxes never quit (until relegation)!

**** me - it lives.

[UPinCarolina]

xG stats would indicate that more often than not opponents are scoring at least .5 above their xG against us, which would suggest that we letting in goals we ought not to. We're also failing to take our chances. I would think our conversion rate is fairly low.

[murphy]

Firstly, I think the players are suffering fatigue exacerbated by the recent emotional trauma.

 

Then there are technical deficiencies - ie giving the ball away too cheaply.  We lack quality in this area.

 

As for the team dynamic, I think we build forward too slowly.  The front three often arrive as a bank of three with Vardy just ahead.  By the time we get there the opposition are set and organised, there is no space to run into hence the sideways passing.  It's like we hit a brick wall.  The full backs can arrive late but this only serves to provide a crossing opportunity with no one to convert.  I think the opposition are happy to let us do this.

 

We won't be able to get in behind or stretch defences until we are able to move the ball quicker or take a more direct/long approach.

 

Not sure about this system but I also remember this forum crying out for change when it was 4-4-2 every week.

 

My personal preference is 3-5-2 but we know it is unlikely. 

[l444ry]

On ‎18‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 19:57, Raw Dykes said:

I've considered your idea of playing Maddison further back with Ghezzal as the no.10. I think it would all hinge on Maddison's defensive abilities, really.

 

I think Ghezzal has looked better as a no.10 than a winger, and I think there could possibly be a decent player in him. We might well struggle defensively, but then Maddison is a very young player and could possibly be moulded into the player we need.

 

Not sure if it would work, but I think it could be worth a try. 

 

There's certainly not enough creativity in Mendy & Ndidi, and it's a real achilles' heel of the team that needs fixing somehow.

Not ideal in my opinion. When we don't have the ball we'd be playing with nine players as these two are luxuries. Add Iheanacho and it would be a doomsday scenario. 

[Raw Dykes]

2 minutes ago, l444ry said:

Not ideal in my opinion. When we don't have the ball we'd be playing with nine players as these two are luxuries. Add Iheanacho and it would be a doomsday scenario. 

No, I don't think it would be ideal, either. Ideally, we would swap one of the many DMs we have for a decent creative CM.

 

As I said, I don't know if Maddison would be up to it defensively. I think it's doubtful, but then considering his age, he might be able to learn to play a bit further back.

 

I just think it might be worth a try. Maybe in a friendly, or if we find ourselves winning comfortably (yeah, right).