BenTheFox Posted 24 December 2018 Posted 24 December 2018 Also the numbers on there are so depressing. So many clubs are not fielding any academy graduates. I really hate the premier league sometimes.
Foxxed Posted 24 December 2018 Author Posted 24 December 2018 The stats are interesting because if you field two first teamers (or three players with two of them on heavy rotation) you're the best academy in town. Next season that should be us. But we need a new academy player in the first team every other season to be the best consistently. Chil was 16/17. Hamza was 17/18. Barnes will be 19/20. It's a pity our best academy players (currently) are centre halves, the most oversubscribed position.
Nicolo Barella Posted 24 December 2018 Posted 24 December 2018 19 minutes ago, Foxxed said: The stats are interesting because if you field two first teamers (or three players with two of them on heavy rotation) you're the best academy in town. Next season that should be us. But we need a new academy player in the first team every other season to be the best consistently. Chil was 16/17. Hamza was 17/18. Barnes will be 19/20. It's a pity our best academy players (currently) are centre halves, the most oversubscribed position. Introducing an academy player every season would be hugely impressive!
l444ry Posted 24 December 2018 Posted 24 December 2018 Academies are a business option running alongside the main operation. Finding a gem or two is a bonus.
Foxxed Posted 24 December 2018 Author Posted 24 December 2018 1 hour ago, Nicolo Barella said: Introducing an academy player every season would be hugely impressive! Getting to that point would be Man United level. For the past two seasons and next season we'll be at that level. And to be fair I said every other season and I think that's doable even if Chilwell, Hamza and Barnes are outliers.
Xen Posted 24 December 2018 Posted 24 December 2018 2 hours ago, Foxxed said: The stats are interesting because if you field two first teamers (or three players with two of them on heavy rotation) you're the best academy in town. Next season that should be us. But we need a new academy player in the first team every other season to be the best consistently. Chil was 16/17. Hamza was 17/18. Barnes will be 19/20. It's a pity our best academy players (currently) are centre halves, the most oversubscribed position. Muskwe, ndukwu, shade, tee, knight, pascanu, eppiah are all rated pretty highly iirc, and I'm sure there are others. They won't all make it, of course, but we've got a pretty decent pool of youngsters who could break through in the next couple of years in a variety of positions. Seeing as we're very thin on strikers at the moment we could see one or two of them before then, even.
Cincinnati Fox Posted 24 December 2018 Posted 24 December 2018 13 hours ago, Nicolo Barella said: Nice stuff. I'd expect Skipp to continue getting minutes for Spurs unless by some miracle they sign a mid in winter. It's a shame for them that Skipp and Winks are such similar players. Yep...sideways and backwards
gurru991 Posted 24 December 2018 Posted 24 December 2018 3 hours ago, BenTheFox said: Also the numbers on there are so depressing. So many clubs are not fielding any academy graduates. I really hate the premier league sometimes. I agree with you. I think Leicester are doing a decent job of bringing Academy Grads along as well as playing homegrown players but the league in general is shite.
Foxy-Lady Posted 25 December 2018 Posted 25 December 2018 On 24/12/2018 at 10:04, Foxxed said: Nah it's cool. Chelsea is an interesting one. They have some of the best players in the Championship. Tammy Abraham is looking a real talent. But whether he can get in his own first team for any sustained period will be interesting to see. He'd be better off coming from a different academy that'll give him a chance. Not sure the stats on Chelsea offer an accurate reflection of the quality of their academy? Off the top of my head, I would be interested to see the stats on Hudson-Odoi and Ampadu who dont appear to be included and there are several Chelsea academy players currently now playing for other PL clubs who have not bee included in the stats either (eg Nate Chalaboah at Watford). I think im correct in saying that Solanke at LFC and Neketiah at Arsenal were also ex-Chelsea Academy so they are definitely developing players of PL quality, even if there isn't a direct pathway at their own cub (Ps Mason Mount could potentially be one of the next big stars of English football!)
Foxxed Posted 25 December 2018 Author Posted 25 December 2018 1 minute ago, Foxy-Lady said: Not sure the stats on Chelsea offer an accurate reflection of the quality of their academy? Off the top of my head, I would be interested to see the stats on Hudson-Odoi and Ampadu who dont appear to be included and there are several Chelsea academy players currently now playing for other PL clubs who have not bee included in the stats either (eg Nate Chalaboah at Watford). I think im correct in saying that Solanke at LFC and Neketiah at Arsenal were also ex-Chelsea Academy so they are definitely developing players of PL quality, even if there isn't a direct pathway at their own cub (Ps Mason Mount could potentially be one of the next big stars of English football!) Chaloboah is a good call. He did at least have a handful of minutes for Chelsea before he was sold to Watford. I didn't know about Hudson-Odoi and Ampadu, cheers! But neither have played any minutes for their first team (or any other) this season. The other academy players can't be motivated by them. The academy players may get excellent training, they may use excellent facilities and they may even get into some youth national teams but if they're not trusted and developed in the Premier League then their club has failed them.
coolhandfox Posted 25 December 2018 Posted 25 December 2018 Not only is a good Academy, great for bring though youngsters to the first team. It can actually generate a lot of income for the club, look at Chelsea some years they have had 30 odd youngsters out on loan, most likely receive a loan fee for each one.
Foxxed Posted 25 December 2018 Author Posted 25 December 2018 1 minute ago, coolhandfox said: Not only is a good Academy, great for bring though youngsters to the first team. It can actually generate a lot of income for the club, look at Chelsea some years they have had 30 odd youngsters out on loan, most likely receive a loan fee for each one. There's definitely the financial side. But for me it's more exciting to see us develop and play our youngsters than loan or sell them for cash.
WestMids Rich Posted 26 December 2018 Posted 26 December 2018 On 24/12/2018 at 09:10, Foxxed said: Fair criticism but are there any Chelsea or Man City academy players who are playing for other Premier League clubs? I couldn't find any. How about Iheanacho as a Man City academy player?
Foxxed Posted 26 December 2018 Author Posted 26 December 2018 3 hours ago, WestMids Rich said: How about Iheanacho as a Man City academy player? Yeah fair shout. I'm only including players who broke through to their first teams and got minutes this season otherwise it'll get too confusing (and too much work for me....) Davis got 20 minutes for Everton. Gibbs-White (who's 18 and was in their academy from seven years old) got 63 minutes for Wolves today. Sessesgnon for Fulhum got 33 and scored. Rashford got 90 for united. Wan-Bassake got a reliable 90 minutes for Palace. Arnold got 90 and an assist for Liverpool. Iwobi and Maitland got 75 minutes between them for Arsenal. We gave Chilwell and Hamza 153 minutes between them. But Spurs won by giving 193 minutes to Skipp, Walkers-Peters and Winks. Walkers-Peters got a hatrick of assists too. I hope Wolves stop giving their youth a chance. I want the best academy in the midlands!
LCCFox96 Posted 26 December 2018 Posted 26 December 2018 A real plus for the academy to have two players in Chilwell and Hamza out there, not only starting but really performing and influencing the games. Hopefully we will see Barnes joining them next year too.
Allpaths Posted 27 December 2018 Posted 27 December 2018 great thread, just a question why are u not including Harry Kane's minutes in spurs totals?
Foxxed Posted 27 December 2018 Author Posted 27 December 2018 9 minutes ago, Allpaths said: great thread, just a question why are u not including Harry Kane's minutes in spurs totals? Only including played who broke through in the past three seasons, so that excludes him. Spurs frankly have a great academy even looking only in the past three seasons. United, Spurs, Arsenal and Soton are pretty much the best academies who give minutes to players. We're up there though and next season it should be even better.
Allpaths Posted 27 December 2018 Posted 27 December 2018 1 minute ago, Foxxed said: Only including played who broke through in the past three seasons, so that excludes him. Spurs frankly have a great academy even looking only in the past three seasons. United, Spurs, Arsenal and Soton are pretty much the best academies who give minutes to players. We're up there though and next season it should be even better. thanks, yeah harvey barnes is gonna smash it for you guys next year. Who's the next one after him from your academy that's likely to make the step up?
Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo Posted 27 December 2018 Posted 27 December 2018 Chilwell has come on leaps and bounds, and is now a regular England starter Choudhury has bags of potential and is only going to improve (also cool af) Barnes tearing it up at West Brom every game it seems We've got a really exciting academy, and the new training complex is sure to attract even more young talent when it's complete. The future is bright
Foxxed Posted 27 December 2018 Author Posted 27 December 2018 32 minutes ago, Allpaths said: thanks, yeah harvey barnes is gonna smash it for you guys next year. Who's the next one after him from your academy that's likely to make the step up? We have a few decent centre halves but we've already got plenty so they will find it difficult to find a place in the first team. There's a few players who look good in the u23s but they need loans out. We've been strangely recluctant to loan them out recently. Hopefully we see some more loan in Jan - we're loaning out (again) a left back who looks like he may make backup left back next season. Puel has been willing to put u23 players on the bench so it's possible we'll see them get some minutes without going on loan first. The only other academy players on loan currenty are George Thomas, who's not really lighting up Scunthorpe, and two goalkeepers. Iversen is doing well but it's unlikely we'll see him for a couple of years at the very least.
Allpaths Posted 27 December 2018 Posted 27 December 2018 58 minutes ago, Foxxed said: We have a few decent centre halves but we've already got plenty so they will find it difficult to find a place in the first team. There's a few players who look good in the u23s but they need loans out. We've been strangely recluctant to loan them out recently. Hopefully we see some more loan in Jan - we're loaning out (again) a left back who looks like he may make backup left back next season. Puel has been willing to put u23 players on the bench so it's possible we'll see them get some minutes without going on loan first. The only other academy players on loan currenty are George Thomas, who's not really lighting up Scunthorpe, and two goalkeepers. Iversen is doing well but it's unlikely we'll see him for a couple of years at the very least. Yeah Poch doesn't like loaning out his favourite youth players. KWP, Winks and Skipp have only ever played for Tottenham. Training with our first rate first team, seems to be a better developmental tool, than rolling the dice and sending them to short sighted lower league side. Anyway I just wanted I really admire the way you guys have built your squad,through the academy, buy young English players from the football league,as well as signing players from the continent before they get a big reputation. It's exactly how Spurs built our squad and I can see you guys challenging at the very top once again in the near future. I never understood the vitrial that some of your lot has towards us, (even when you stopped us from winning the league I couldn't begrudge you guys as that year was special for all of football) as in my opinion both of our clubs r in the same boat and carry our business out in a very similar fashion. Cheers
Foxxed Posted 27 December 2018 Author Posted 27 December 2018 42 minutes ago, Allpaths said: Yeah Poch doesn't like loaning out his favourite youth players. KWP, Winks and Skipp have only ever played for Tottenham. Training with our first rate first team, seems to be a better developmental tool, than rolling the dice and sending them to short sighted lower league side. Anyway I just wanted I really admire the way you guys have built your squad,through the academy, buy young English players from the football league,as well as signing players from the continent before they get a big reputation. It's exactly how Spurs built our squad and I can see you guys challenging at the very top once again in the near future. I never understood the vitrial that some of your lot has towards us, (even when you stopped us from winning the league I couldn't begrudge you guys as that year was special for all of football) as in my opinion both of our clubs r in the same boat and carry our business out in a very similar fashion. Cheers Everyone needs a rival. Since Forest are too ****ing useless to get in the Prem, and Wolves weren't here last season (and are West Mids anyway), we chose you! Interesting to hear that Skipp etc never went on loan. Some of our posters want our u23 coach's head for not loaning players out. But if it's worked for kwp, winks and skipp hopefully it'll work with our youth. Our academy players are training with the first team too. Also, how seriosuly do you take the PL2? You always seem fairly far down the table when I look. We seem to be taking it seriously. Partly, I imagine, to advertise our academy. We do mention our finishing league positions on the website.
Foxy-Lady Posted 30 December 2018 Posted 30 December 2018 On 27/12/2018 at 22:09, Foxxed said: Everyone needs a rival. Since Forest are too ****ing useless to get in the Prem, and Wolves weren't here last season (and are West Mids anyway), we chose you! Interesting to hear that Skipp etc never went on loan. Some of our posters want our u23 coach's head for not loaning players out. But if it's worked for kwp, winks and skipp hopefully it'll work with our youth. Our academy players are training with the first team too. Also, how seriosuly do you take the PL2? You always seem fairly far down the table when I look. We seem to be taking it seriously. Partly, I imagine, to advertise our academy. We do mention our finishing league positions on the website. I think you have just nailed the key difference right there between the philosophy at Spurs U23 and the philosophy at LCFC U23s. Spurs don't give a s*** about their PL2 league position but Beaglehole is reliant on results/league position as he's not actually very good at developing players. (Ben Chilwell credits several other coaches in LCFC academy as his key influences and makes no mention of Beaglehole whatsoever...!)
Foxxed Posted 12 January 2019 Author Posted 12 January 2019 On 30/12/2018 at 19:11, Foxy-Lady said: I think you have just nailed the key difference right there between the philosophy at Spurs U23 and the philosophy at LCFC U23s. Spurs don't give a s*** about their PL2 league position but Beaglehole is reliant on results/league position as he's not actually very good at developing players. (Ben Chilwell credits several other coaches in LCFC academy as his key influences and makes no mention of Beaglehole whatsoever...!) I think he may be paying attention to the league because the club wants to advertise the academy. Anyhow, getting further up the league means the team is performing well and surely players better develop in well performing teams.
Allpaths Posted 12 January 2019 Posted 12 January 2019 On 27/12/2018 at 17:09, Foxxed said: Everyone needs a rival. Since Forest are too ****ing useless to get in the Prem, and Wolves weren't here last season (and are West Mids anyway), we chose you! Interesting to hear that Skipp etc never went on loan. Some of our posters want our u23 coach's head for not loaning players out. But if it's worked for kwp, winks and skipp hopefully it'll work with our youth. Our academy players are training with the first team too. Also, how seriosuly do you take the PL2? You always seem fairly far down the table when I look. We seem to be taking it seriously. Partly, I imagine, to advertise our academy. We do mention our finishing league positions on the website. Yeah obviously we dont take the PL2 that serious. Our appraoch is really frustrating from a developmental and a performance pov. And a large part of that is due to the poor managers we've deployed at the level. As well any promising youngster who trains full time with the first team, wont play in the PL2, no matter how little game time they get with the sr. side. As a result our u23 side is mostly used as a holding pen for academy players who will never be good enough for the first team, but the club thinks they could finagle a league club to buy them. Funnily enough first PL2 season we did reach the finals against Man United with the likes of Kane, Alex Pritchard, Andros Townsend, Bentaleb, Tom Carroll, Ryan Fredericks, Milos Veljkovic were in the side and Sherwood was our manager.
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