Foxxed Posted 24 December 2018 Posted 24 December 2018 Barnes said a few interviews ago that there's a real buzz around our academy so I thought I'd see how we compare. (It's Christmas and I'm bored) I've listed all the academy players who broke through their first team since 15/16 with their debut date and minutes played. (I've noted some notable 14/15 players but I've not included them in the total minutes calculation). Please correct anything I've got wrong. (I've included Hamza's League Cup match since it was practically Premier League level and the same goes with Nketish in the Champions League) Liverpool (total mins: 1145) Arnold (16/17) - 1145 Man city (93) Foden (16/17) - 93 Spurs (812) Skipp (18/19) - 90 Amos (18/19) - 2 Walker-Peters (17/18) - 12 Winks (16/17) - 708 Chelsea (90) Christensen (17/18) - 90 (Loftus-Cheek (14/15) - 263) Arsenal (1026) Nketish (17/18) - 1 (and 180 in CL) Maitland (16/17) - 141 Iwobi (15/16) - 804 (Bellerin (14/15) - 1442) United (1343) Mctommy (16/17) - 252 Rashford (15/16) - 930 Pereira (15/16) - 161 Watford None Bournemouth None Leicester (1710) Chilwell (16/17) - 1530 Choudhury (17/18) - 90 (and 90 in LC) Barnes - tbc Wolves (331) Gibbs-White (16/17) - 331 Everton (956) Davis (15/16) - 596 Kenny (15/16) - 360 West Ham (1660) Diangana (18/19) - 364 Rice (16/17) - 1306 Brighton None Crystal Palace (1515) Wan-Bissaka (17/18) - 1515 Newcastle None Soton (1108) Obafemi (18/19) - 116 Valery (18/19) - 305 Johnson (18/19) - 1 Stephens (16/17) - 686 (Ward-Prowse (14/15) - 299) (Targett (14/15) - 522) Cardiff (Ralls (14/15) - 1005) Burnely None Huddesfield (Billing (14/15) - 1483) Fulham (1863) Bettinell (16/17) - 630 Sessgenon (16/17) - 1233 Spurs do give their youth a chance but it's not really a sustained chance except for Winks. United still have a decent academy as expected. Soton is obviously great. West Ham have had a good academy for a while now. Fulham is doing well but if they get relegated then their academy will lose a lot of pulling power. Man City and Chelsea have loads of players loaned out but will they ever make the team? So how do we compare? In minutes played we're second behind Fulham obviously mainly due to Chilwell. We only have two academy players in the first team but I'd wager next season we'll have three. And there's only four other teams (United, Fulham, Palace and Liverpool) who can claim to have an academy player as a first teamer. If our youth keep getting a sustained chance by the time Seagrave is complete we may have the best academy in the country. (The list of academy players is here https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/eigengewaechse/wettbewerb/GB1/art/0/plus/1 And some other Googling was done. The debut dates were either from wikipedia or whoscored)
jim5000 Posted 24 December 2018 Posted 24 December 2018 What I liked about the Chelsea game was how many academy and English players we had. Chilwell, Hamza from the academy, with Maguire, Albrighton, Maddison, Vardy and Gray representing the English players. It's great to support a team like this in a time of a Galactico filled Premier League awash with talent from all over the world. We have a lad from Loughborough in the team ahead of a Portugese European Championships winner in the centre of midfield! The academy apart, the age of the team and the prospect for the future if they hold it all together is amazing. People forget that as a club we are doing better than ever before; never in my life have City been a stable PL team, and to be doing it while developing the first team into the exciting prospect that it is is a real tribute to what Vichi has helped us achieve. The likes of Pochettino and Klopp have been at their clubs for 3-4 years building and progressing a core of players. If we can ride out a few rough results while the squad is developed then hopefully we can be competing at their level in a year or two. I'd much rather than than going back to yo-yoing up and down between the top two divisions for the next 20 years!
Nicolo Barella Posted 24 December 2018 Posted 24 December 2018 Nice stuff. I'd expect Skipp to continue getting minutes for Spurs unless by some miracle they sign a mid in winter. It's a shame for them that Skipp and Winks are such similar players.
Raw Dykes Posted 24 December 2018 Posted 24 December 2018 Thanks @Foxxed. That was an interesting read. I didn't realise that we were doing quite that well at bringing academy players through compared to our rivals. I agree, I think Barnes will feature as of next season. There may even be another who gets a chance. It seems like work done on the academy years ago, whether by NP and his staff, or the owners when they arrived, is finally coming to fruition. I can remember people's frustration during the dark days in the Championship that the club wasn't producing any decent talent, while similar-sized Soton couldn't stop pumping out £10m+ (that was a lot back then!) players, despite half their catchment area being in the English Channel. It's great to see us catching up. This is probably nitpicking, but one thought I had reading the OP was that it's not entirely fair, because it's much more difficult for a young player to get into Man City's team than Cardiff's, for example. There probably are players in the big 6's academies/u23s that have no minutes so far at their own club, but may have featured a lot at a Huddersfield/Fulham/etc. Conversely, the academy players that make the relegation candidates' teams would be unlikely to feature for the title contenders. I don't like to criticise a post like that, because I thought it was a very good one. I just thought I'd mention this as someone might be able to come up with a way of accounting for that somehow to make it fairer.
Foxxed Posted 24 December 2018 Author Posted 24 December 2018 1 minute ago, Raw Dykes said: Thanks @Foxxed. That was an interesting read. I didn't realise that we were doing quite that well at bringing academy players through compared to our rivals. I agree, I think Barnes will feature as of next season. There may even be another who gets a chance. It seems like work done on the academy years ago, whether by NP and his staff, or the owners when they arrived, is finally coming to fruition. I can remember people's frustration during the dark days in the Championship that the club wasn't producing any decent talent, while similar-sized Soton couldn't stop pumping out £10m+ (that was a lot back then!) players, despite half their catchment area being in the English Channel. It's great to see us catching up. This is probably nitpicking, but one thought I had reading the OP was that it's not entirely fair, because it's much more difficult for a young player to get into Man City's team than Cardiff's, for example. There probably are players in the big 6's academies/u23s that have no minutes so far at their own club, but may have featured a lot at a Huddersfield/Fulham/etc. Conversely, the academy players that make the relegation candidates' teams would be unlikely to feature for the title contenders. I don't like to criticise a post like that, because I thought it was a very good one. I just thought I'd mention this as someone might be able to come up with a way of accounting for that somehow to make it fairer. Fair criticism but are there any Chelsea or Man City academy players who are playing for other Premier League clubs? I couldn't find any.
davieG Posted 24 December 2018 Posted 24 December 2018 8 minutes ago, Raw Dykes said: This is probably nitpicking, but one thought I had reading the OP was that it's not entirely fair, because it's much more difficult for a young player to get into Man City's team than Cardiff's, for example. There probably are players in the big 6's academies/u23s that have no minutes so far at their own club, but may have featured a lot at a Huddersfield/Fulham/etc. Conversely, the academy players that make the relegation candidates' teams would be unlikely to feature for the title contenders. Conversely it's harder for clubs like Cardiff to attract players that will be good enough to play in the PL, there's a reason why the top 5/6 are awash with underused talent.
Raw Dykes Posted 24 December 2018 Posted 24 December 2018 Just now, Foxxed said: Fair criticism but are there any Chelsea or Man City academy players who are playing for other Premier League clubs? I couldn't find any. I can't think of any either. Like I said, I probably am nitpicking, and I might have overstated the problem. I suppose I'm just hoping someone has a solution, because I couldn't think of one. Don't get me wrong, I still think the stats are a great indicator of how well a club's academy is performing.
sylofox Posted 24 December 2018 Posted 24 December 2018 7 minutes ago, Foxxed said: Fair criticism but are there any Chelsea or Man City academy players who are playing for other Premier League clubs? I couldn't find any. What's it matter? You have Fulham top but witn no premier league minutes.
Raw Dykes Posted 24 December 2018 Posted 24 December 2018 4 minutes ago, davieG said: Conversely it's harder for clubs like Cardiff to attract players that will be good enough to play in the PL, there's a reason why the top 5/6 are awash with underused talent. Good point. I suppose that does make it more fair. There might just be too many variables to compare academies more accurately than this.
Foxxed Posted 24 December 2018 Author Posted 24 December 2018 1 hour ago, Raw Dykes said: I can't think of any either. Like I said, I probably am nitpicking, and I might have overstated the problem. I suppose I'm just hoping someone has a solution, because I couldn't think of one. Don't get me wrong, I still think the stats are a great indicator of how well a club's academy is performing. Nah it's cool. Chelsea is an interesting one. They have some of the best players in the Championship. Tammy Abraham is looking a real talent. But whether he can get in his own first team for any sustained period will be interesting to see. He'd be better off coming from a different academy that'll give him a chance.
urban.spaceman Posted 24 December 2018 Posted 24 December 2018 Spurs are only giving youth a chance because they can’t afford to buy anyone. They couldn’t even afford Jack ****ing Grealish who should have been cheaper than Maddison.
Nicolo Barella Posted 24 December 2018 Posted 24 December 2018 1 hour ago, Foxxed said: Fair criticism but are there any Chelsea or Man City academy players who are playing for other Premier League clubs? I couldn't find any. Lukaku? De Bruyne? Salah?
Nicolo Barella Posted 24 December 2018 Posted 24 December 2018 42 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said: Spurs are only giving youth a chance because they can’t afford to buy anyone. They couldn’t even afford Jack ****ing Grealish who should have been cheaper than Maddison. They can afford to buy, they just want to buy the right personnel at the right price. If Porto suddenly upped Ricardo's asking price by 20 million, would we have bought him?
Rusko187 Posted 24 December 2018 Posted 24 December 2018 Whilst I am a "Puel out" kind of guy I will give praise where it's deserved, he is doing wonders bringing through young players into the fold. Really would like to see Barnes come in and given an opportunity... seems as though he's finding the championship a tad too easy.
Foxxed Posted 24 December 2018 Author Posted 24 December 2018 12 hours ago, Raw Dykes said: It seems like work done on the academy years ago, whether by NP and his staff, or the owners when they arrived, is finally coming to fruition. Yes, although it's now becoming known, the work must have started long before we looked like a Premier League team and Pearson deserves credit. The idea we would produce Premier League talent let alone England team talent when we got promoted from League One must have been laughable (but perhaps not to one man). But Chilwell, Barnes and Hamza were all here then, slowly being developed into players who would eventually make the national teams. I was talking to a young guy trying to get into FC United at the start of 15/16 and he said that a lot of young players were considering our academy not only because it was good quality but at least they'd get a chance here. The work done by the management and the academy staff from years back shouldn't be understated. With our emerging reputation hopefully we can keep attracting the players and staff to keep this going for generations.
The Doctor Posted 24 December 2018 Posted 24 December 2018 14 minutes ago, Nicolo Barella said: They can afford to buy, they just want to buy the right personnel at the right price. If Porto suddenly upped Ricardo's asking price by 20 million, would we have bought him? Ok, but grealish was initially available on the cheap because Villa needed money desperately to pay their tax bill. Spurs spent so long squabbling over a transfer that would have maxed out at around a rumoured 5m that Villa had found investors and didn't then need to sell him anymore, hence the fee jumping 20m. They're tight as a gnats chaff.
Foxxed Posted 24 December 2018 Author Posted 24 December 2018 20 minutes ago, Nicolo Barella said: Lukaku? De Bruyne? Salah? Neither Lukaku or Salah were developed in an English academy and broke through to the first team?
Nicolo Barella Posted 24 December 2018 Posted 24 December 2018 3 hours ago, The Doctor said: Ok, but grealish was initially available on the cheap because Villa needed money desperately to pay their tax bill. Spurs spent so long squabbling over a transfer that would have maxed out at around a rumoured 5m that Villa had found investors and didn't then need to sell him anymore, hence the fee jumping 20m. They're tight as a gnats chaff. Rumoured being the key word there. And tbf, would you pay 5 million for Grealish They're willing to spend on their targets when they need to, as Davinson Sanchez showed. They're just very intelligent about their spending. They bought Son for 22 million pounds! Eriksen for 12, Alli for 5? Etc, one thing you shouldn't slate about Spurs is their recruitment of late because by and large it has been intelligent and successful.
Nicolo Barella Posted 24 December 2018 Posted 24 December 2018 3 hours ago, Foxxed said: Neither Lukaku or Salah were developed in an English academy and broke through to the first team? I know, it was a joke about the fact that they were all a part of Chelsea's loan army.
The Doctor Posted 24 December 2018 Posted 24 December 2018 1 hour ago, Nicolo Barella said: Rumoured being the key word there. And tbf, would you pay 5 million for Grealish For a young English attacking player with a couple of PL seasons under his belt already, a sub 10m fee is a bargain, let's be fair
Nicolo Barella Posted 24 December 2018 Posted 24 December 2018 7 minutes ago, The Doctor said: For a young English attacking player with a couple of PL seasons under his belt already, a sub 10m fee is a bargain, let's be fair Sure, but I doubt Spurs were desperate for him - they've managed just fine promoting Winks to the first team and playing Skipp here and there in the winter. I imagine it was probably a target that was nice but unnecessary, especially for that kind of money
gurru991 Posted 24 December 2018 Posted 24 December 2018 5 hours ago, urban.spaceman said: Spurs are only giving youth a chance because they can’t afford to buy anyone. They couldn’t even afford Jack ****ing Grealish who should have been cheaper than Maddison. I think they can afford to buy but much as I dislike Spurs I admire Daniel Levy. He has made mistakes but rarely splashes the cash foolishly. Villa were never going to pull his pants down with Grealish.
BenTheFox Posted 24 December 2018 Posted 24 December 2018 It's so satisfying seeing us set an example. The club will benefit hugely if we carry on down this path.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.