Guest MattP Posted 16 January 2020 Share Posted 16 January 2020 What a combination. The farting commie and the giggling bird who managed to lose two safe seats in Durham to the Tories in the same decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 16 January 2020 Share Posted 16 January 2020 As expected. Momentum backs RBL. https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-politics-51140071?__twitter_impression=true In a wonderfully left-wing way, members were "polled" with only her name on the ballot paper. Sadly, over 50% plumped for Rayner as DL, which is all but the end of the Burgon campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 16 January 2020 Share Posted 16 January 2020 21 hours ago, MattP said: Wow. I've just read something by Stephen Bush (generally a good source) questioning the reliability of this poll - a poll of "LabourList readers weighted to reflect Labour's membership". Although LabourList isn't pro-Momentum, he questions how a pollster could "weight" a poll of those using a web site to reflect the wider membership. For example, how would the pollster assess members who don't browse specialist political web sites. Possible to adjust by age & gender, maybe.....but those of any age & gender who don't use LabourList might have wildly different views to users. That said, despite Nandy making a strong start, Bush expects it to end up in a Starmer v. Long Bailey shoot-out. 21 hours ago, MattP said: Yep. Survation as well who have nailed the last two elections. I'm tempted to mock up a fake one with Richard Burgon leading the deputy race but if @Alf Bentley ended up back in hospital after reading it I'd never forgive myself! Too late! Had my op yesterday, discharged 3 hours ago and I'm already on here.... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 16 January 2020 Share Posted 16 January 2020 Fantastic to see you out and well. Great stuff. Give Andrew Neil a watch from last night - Nandy was very competent and handled him far better than most. To be honest the answer for me seems completely obvious. Nandy is the standout candidate and could make 2024 a serious fight. Starmer is stability but probably not an election winner. Which probably means the membership goes for RBL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 16 January 2020 Share Posted 16 January 2020 5 hours ago, davieG said: Labour leadership hopefuls are seeking the backing of unions and local parties as the contest's next stage begins. The five contenders need the support of 5% of local parties or at least three affiliates - two must be unions - by 14 February to make the final ballot. The National Union of Mineworkers (NUM) said it would be backing Lisa Nandy. In an interview with the BBC's Andrew Neil, Ms Nandy said Labour members would have to make the "brave choice" and not "play it safe" when it came to electing their next leader. She said she had fought many battles before entering Parliament and since, making her a good candidate to be next prime minister. She said she would abolish tuition fees, renationalise Royal Mail and renew Trident - Britain's nuclear deterrent - "if it was coupled with a strong commitment to multi-lateral disarmament". Ms Nandy also said she did not support another Scottish independence referendum, saying: "I think this country has had enough of referendums." Elsewhere, in a speech on Wednesday, Ms Nandy criticised Mr Corbyn for his response to Russia's alleged involvement in the poisoning of British citizens in Salisbury in 2018, saying he was "completely wrong" to have called for dialogue after the events. "At a crucial moment, we hesitated in condemning an authoritarian regime... that used chemical weapons on the streets of the UK," she said. She also said the UK should refuse to sign a trade deal with the US unless it signs back up to the Paris climate deal, which President Trump withdrew from in 2017. Stephen Bush reckons that Nandy is expected to get nominated by the GMB, which almost qualifies her for the final ballot - something that Phillips & Thornberry will find harder to achieve. She's certainly giving herself a chance after impressing Labour MPs (almost as many nominations as Long Bailey) & getting union nominations. An interesting policy mix there, too: some Right, some Left, some populist. I can't see Trump quaking in his boots about the last bit (he'll only ever sign a strongly America First trade deal, I presume). But that's not the point, I suppose: it's an eye-catching policy that could appeal to different groups (Leftists who hate Trump, patriotic types who want a strong leader for British interests & those who prioritise the environment). It will certainly make for a better contest if she makes the final ballot. Otherwise, Starmer v. Long Bailey could be an unimaginative, polarising battle: "Capable, sensible centre-left" v. "True radical left". Nandy could push both of them out of their comfort zones.....and hopefully damage Long Bailey, as the least thoughtful of the 3, from what I've seen (if there are 3 and only 3 in the final ballot, which might not be the case). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 16 January 2020 Share Posted 16 January 2020 1 hour ago, MattP said: What a combination. The farting commie and the giggling bird who managed to lose two safe seats in Durham to the Tories in the same decade. Just noticed his climate change placard is laminated with plastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiberalFox Posted 16 January 2020 Share Posted 16 January 2020 I've never seen Lisa Nandy as a serious contender yet she talks a lot of sense and is very popular among the Liberals I know. Could see her as a leader we could work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oxford blue Posted 16 January 2020 Share Posted 16 January 2020 1 hour ago, LiberalFox said: I've never seen Lisa Nandy as a serious contender yet she talks a lot of sense ...talking a lot of sense is not an essential criteria for a Labour leader in recent years, indeed the opposite could be argued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 16 January 2020 Share Posted 16 January 2020 3 hours ago, LiberalFox said: I've never seen Lisa Nandy as a serious contender yet she talks a lot of sense and is very popular among the Liberals I know. Could see her as a leader we could work with. She does, so she's not got a chance of the Labour membership going for her. Whoever does get the job has one mighty mess to clean up as some of these new candidates are nuts - the state of this. Unsurprisingly this was the girl who said she would celebrate the death of Tony Blair. Compare that to the other 26 year old, Dehenna Davison from the Tory side who used her maiden speech to passionately about everything from aspiration to the sadness of her father being murdered and it's a different World - only one side is looking like the nasty party at the minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 17 January 2020 Share Posted 17 January 2020 TBH if Nandy is taking climate change seriously (and more importantly looking to hold other nations to account there too) then that is good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realjimbo Posted 17 January 2020 Share Posted 17 January 2020 I'm a small businessman and a lifelong Labour voter but I now despair at the mediocre losers vying for the leadership of this great party. Heads are once again deeply buried in the sand if anyone believes that any of these people can do any better than second again. The problem as I see it is this: the populace has moved to the right for whatever reason, so any new leader has to either move the party to the right and betray the very reasons the party exists, or attempt to convince the people that the fairness and more equal policies of a left leaning Labour Party offers an alternative to the right wing Tories. Corbyn and his team tried this and failed spectacularly. None of these candidates exude leadership of a party let alone a country, but once again we will get someone like RLB who is loved by conference and unions and will be seen as a total non entity among the general population utterly devoid of gravitas and experience. I honestly am in despair with this appalling mess. There is zero chance of convincing people to accept sacrifices in the short term for long term gain - the climate catastrophe which is not only in our faces but smashing into us is a case in point, we humans want to hear cosy lies rather than the hard truth and we are dying to keep hearing them - literally! The voices shouting for action on this existential crisis are world renowned, knowledgeable, loved and respected but still few people are listening. What chance of any of these candidates reaching the people of middle England and getting into power? Sure there will be a lot of traditional Labour voters who will support ANY leader but it will not be enough to get into power and change things. So we end up with the choice - principles or power. I'm convinced that the climate emergency is the single greatest threat to humanity ever, so for me any leader who can make other world leaders listen would get my vote, unfortunately unless David Attenborough decides to stand I don't see anyone of any political colour who can command the attention of even minor players on the World stage to arrest our suicidal slide into extinction. RLB will probably win, talk of new beginnings and fairness, sacrifice and the need for real action on the climate..... and lose heavily again at the next G.E. People choose what they believe, and people don't want to believe in the appalling truth of planetary extinction - not just an important issue, it's in reality the only issue facing us today. Principle or power? Maybe neither choice is enough any more. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 17 January 2020 Share Posted 17 January 2020 Starmer looking very good with YouGov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr The Singh Posted 17 January 2020 Share Posted 17 January 2020 I like Nando's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 17 January 2020 Share Posted 17 January 2020 7 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said: I like Nando's Very spicy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 17 January 2020 Share Posted 17 January 2020 On 16/01/2020 at 17:00, Alf Bentley said: That said, despite Nandy making a strong start, Bush expects it to end up in a Starmer v. Long Bailey shoot-out. She's impressed me too and getting stronger although the Catalonia stuff from yesterday is almost unforgivable. 4 hours ago, MattP said: Starmer looking very good with YouGov. Hopefully this is more reflective than the Survation poll. Keir is the only one who can unite the party, something that BJ managed to do much to his credit (through gritted teeth). It makes a massive difference. We could then have a front shadow bench of the strongest from the Centre and the Left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 17 January 2020 Share Posted 17 January 2020 8 minutes ago, Lionator said: She's impressed me too and getting stronger although the Catalonia stuff from yesterday is almost unforgivable. I'd only seen the headline quote about Nandy's comment re. Catalonia & Sturgeon's response. On the face of it, it certainly did sound unforgivable if she had been backing police violence and long prison sentences in Catalonia, but..... This is the relevant bit of what she said: "We should look outwards to other countries and other parts of the world where they have had to deal with divisive nationalism and seek to discover the lessons where, in these brief moments in history in places like Catalonia and Quebec, we have managed to go and beat narrow divisive nationalism with a social justice agenda." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-51139519 She then clarified in a blog: "I have suggested if I become Labour’s next leader I will set up an international commission to learn lessons from experiences elsewhere, in places like Quebec and Catalonia. In Quebec, the positive expression of solidarity from Canadians towards their fellow citizens — coupled with real devolution of powers — was the central reason why separatism was defeated there. It allowed the people of Quebec to be who they wanted to be with overlapping, complex, multiple identities without forcing them into a choice that would require those identities to fragment. Equally socialists in Catalonia have for years been peacefully resisting the advance of separatists there, and most recent indications suggest that their democratic efforts may well succeed. There are hopeful signs their approach of socialism and solidarity — which stands in stark contrast to the unjustified violence we saw from the Spanish police operating under the instruction of Spain’s then right wing Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy — may yet win out". https://medium.com/@lisa_nandy/socialism-and-peaceful-solidarity-can-defeat-divisive-nationalism-434c50f328a I completely support what she's said there - and it's opportunistic misrepresentation from Sturgeon to say Scots would be "mortified" by that......unless Nandy's said elsewhere that she supports police violence & long prison sentences for nationalists..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiberalFox Posted 17 January 2020 Share Posted 17 January 2020 Nothing wrong with what she said, SNP are a bunch of loonies though so no doubt she'll get a load of hate for believing in the UK. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 18 January 2020 Share Posted 18 January 2020 9 hours ago, Alf Bentley said: I'd only seen the headline quote about Nandy's comment re. Catalonia & Sturgeon's response. On the face of it, it certainly did sound unforgivable if she had been backing police violence and long prison sentences in Catalonia, but..... This is the relevant bit of what she said: "We should look outwards to other countries and other parts of the world where they have had to deal with divisive nationalism and seek to discover the lessons where, in these brief moments in history in places like Catalonia and Quebec, we have managed to go and beat narrow divisive nationalism with a social justice agenda." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-51139519 She then clarified in a blog: "I have suggested if I become Labour’s next leader I will set up an international commission to learn lessons from experiences elsewhere, in places like Quebec and Catalonia. In Quebec, the positive expression of solidarity from Canadians towards their fellow citizens — coupled with real devolution of powers — was the central reason why separatism was defeated there. It allowed the people of Quebec to be who they wanted to be with overlapping, complex, multiple identities without forcing them into a choice that would require those identities to fragment. Equally socialists in Catalonia have for years been peacefully resisting the advance of separatists there, and most recent indications suggest that their democratic efforts may well succeed. There are hopeful signs their approach of socialism and solidarity — which stands in stark contrast to the unjustified violence we saw from the Spanish police operating under the instruction of Spain’s then right wing Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy — may yet win out". https://medium.com/@lisa_nandy/socialism-and-peaceful-solidarity-can-defeat-divisive-nationalism-434c50f328a I completely support what she's said there - and it's opportunistic misrepresentation from Sturgeon to say Scots would be "mortified" by that......unless Nandy's said elsewhere that she supports police violence & long prison sentences for nationalists..... Hands up, I’m guilty of only reading the sound bite. Just goes to show how important media coverage is ey! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 18 January 2020 Share Posted 18 January 2020 I watched some (not all) of the leadership hustings earlier.... Player Ratings: Nandy 8 - Impressive again: articulate, thoughtful on policy/strategy & seems to listen to normal people Thornberry 8 - I'd forgotten what a strong speaker she is; had conviction & ideas; would give Boris a tough time.....but would she irritate voters? Starmer 6.5 - Didn't put a foot wrong, has his strategy well thought out....but a bit wooden/uncharismatic. Not a strong public speaker - better at detail & in TV interviews Long Bailey 5 - Mostly speaking to the converted - too much insider jargon Phillips 5 - Has some decent ideas but doesn't come across as leader material; too self-focused & chatty/informal; started to grate on me, probably more on others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 18 January 2020 Share Posted 18 January 2020 Did you watch the deputy one? If it's on YouTube I'll watch it tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 18 January 2020 Share Posted 18 January 2020 49 minutes ago, MattP said: Did you watch the deputy one? If it's on YouTube I'll watch it tomorrow. Nah, that's enough politics for one Saturday, even for me. But let me know if Burgon emits any anal utterances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 18 January 2020 Share Posted 18 January 2020 Anymore of this and Boris might call another one just for a giggle. On a serious note though you've got an incredible base here now and its widely concentrated unlike the Labour vote which is more City based. They should be making a ten year plan here to not only invest in these new voters but also try and entice even more new ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 18 January 2020 Share Posted 18 January 2020 Paul Gambaccini to run against Starmer if he wins I'd completely forgotten Starmer was head of the CPS under the Yewtree farce. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/paul-gambaccini-ill-run-against-keir-starmer-over-my-child-abuse-witch-hunt-v8xjn68km Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 19 January 2020 Share Posted 19 January 2020 Man of Steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr The Singh Posted 19 January 2020 Share Posted 19 January 2020 3 minutes ago, MattP said: Man of Steel. Good for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts