st albans fox Posted 8 February 2020 Share Posted 8 February 2020 44 minutes ago, MattP said: You can smell the desperation. That should get her elected ....... the ability of political movements to make themselves unlelectable never ceases to amaze me ........been going on for most of my lifetime .... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 8 February 2020 Share Posted 8 February 2020 19 minutes ago, st albans fox said: That should get her elected ....... the ability of political movements to make themselves unlelectable never ceases to amaze me ........been going on for most of my lifetime .... More strikes - it's what the British public are absolutely crying out for. I mean striking is a very important right, they should be used carefully as a last resort. The idea you would support them "no questions asked is hilarious". Maybe I'll call one over the treatment of Jewish City Bankers and ask what time she'll be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 8 February 2020 Share Posted 8 February 2020 Labour's "devastating" general election defeat could spell the end of the party, shadow health secretary Jonathan Ashworth has warned. The Labour MP told a BBC Radio 4 documentary the party had to change or face up to 15 years out of power. "Unless we do something quick this could be the end of the Labour Party in this country", he said. Senior Labour and Tory figures give frank assessments of the 2019 campaign in the programme to be aired on Sunday. Labour went down to its worst defeat, in terms of seats, since 1935, although its vote share was slightly higher than when it lost in 2010 and 2015. The Inside Story of Election 19 is on BBC Radio 4 at 1330 GMT, presented by Anne McElvoy and produced by Peter Snowdon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 8 February 2020 Share Posted 8 February 2020 2 minutes ago, davieG said: Labour's "devastating" general election defeat could spell the end of the party, shadow health secretary Jonathan Ashworth has warned. The Labour MP told a BBC Radio 4 documentary the party had to change or face up to 15 years out of power. "Unless we do something quick this could be the end of the Labour Party in this country", he said. Senior Labour and Tory figures give frank assessments of the 2019 campaign in the programme to be aired on Sunday. Labour went down to its worst defeat, in terms of seats, since 1935, although its vote share was slightly higher than when it lost in 2010 and 2015. The Labour party isn't under any serious threat at the minute as the left alternative is the Lib Dems and the Greens who only appeal to a niche sort of voter. The only question for Labour now is whether it wants to be a serious party of government who can win majorities or a party who just hope to stop the Tories and cobble together a left wing coalition as an alternative. Totally different to the Conservatives who could genuinely have usurped by UKIP/Brexit under a leader like Farage who had the ability to win national elections ahead of them. I still think to this day had Labour voted for the May deal they could have torn the Tory party into two parts. Instead it's a totally united party now on the issue for the first time in decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoleftfeet Posted 8 February 2020 Share Posted 8 February 2020 I think the winner of the labour leader election is the one who can suggest the policy that will get most ordinary working people not to vote for the labour party. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 9 February 2020 Share Posted 9 February 2020 Corbyn's own constituency goes for Starmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oxford blue Posted 9 February 2020 Share Posted 9 February 2020 8 hours ago, MattP said: Corbyn's own constituency goes for Starmer. Not surprising. Firstly, it would have been a major rejection of their local MP if they did not support his nomination. Secondly, Starmer represents the London/metropolitan Labour party, which presumably Islington are no different to other London (Labour) constituencies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 9 February 2020 Share Posted 9 February 2020 4 hours ago, oxford blue said: Not surprising. Firstly, it would have been a major rejection of their local MP if they did not support his nomination. Secondly, Starmer represents the London/metropolitan Labour party, which presumably Islington are no different to other London (Labour) constituencies I know that Keir is from that London bubble but he comes from a background of competency, it'll be up to him to bat off that label once he's leader but by christ I'd rather have him as leader having to deal with that baggage than the delusional RLB with her sidekick Frodo Burgon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 9 February 2020 Share Posted 9 February 2020 https://twitter.com/CLPNominations/status/1226589616251293702?s=20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 9 February 2020 Share Posted 9 February 2020 They can't can they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 9 February 2020 Share Posted 9 February 2020 2 hours ago, MattP said: They can't can they? They wouldn’t be that stupid would they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudiofox Posted 10 February 2020 Share Posted 10 February 2020 19 hours ago, Strokes said: They wouldn’t be that stupid would they? My wife works for the labour party she is seconded from Unite , make no bones about it this isnt happening Sir Keir will be the next leader of the labour party and will win in a landslide 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 10 February 2020 Share Posted 10 February 2020 54 minutes ago, Claudiofox said: My wife works for the labour party she is seconded from Unite , make no bones about it this isnt happening Sir Keir will be the next leader of the labour party and will win in a landslide Well that’s my money on RBL down the drain then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 10 February 2020 Share Posted 10 February 2020 37 minutes ago, Strokes said: Well that’s my money on RBL down the drain then Completely crazy the NEC didn't change the rules 6 months ago not to allow people to vote unless they had been in the party for x amount if time like the Tories do, they knew an election was coming and even they must have realised there was a possibility of defeat. Can't even put in motions to try and rig their own elections and some people thought they could run the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 10 February 2020 Share Posted 10 February 2020 And they call Boris a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr The Singh Posted 10 February 2020 Share Posted 10 February 2020 5 minutes ago, MattP said: And they call Boris a liar. Wtf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 10 February 2020 Share Posted 10 February 2020 16 minutes ago, MattP said: And they call Boris a liar. Well I can remember what the country looked like 10 years ago and there might have been less on the streets but it was nowhere near zero. They did hand the country over in a good state regarding homelessness, but that’s disregarding that absolutely everything else was a complete mess. I’m sure I read somewhere, homelessness now is still less than half of the early 2000s? I’ll have to check on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Claudiofox Posted 10 February 2020 Popular Post Share Posted 10 February 2020 1 hour ago, Strokes said: Well that’s my money on RBL down the drain then Very much so , I suspect she will be forever tainted by Corbyn and marxist policies she helped design I have met Sir Keir a few times he is a really genuine man, wonderfully intelligent and very very driven, One negative might be he lacks a little charisma but he has massive potential as a leader Labour are broken at present, if people truly knew the war raging at HQ and the tactics being employed they would be horrified it's truly KGB stuff, but the moderates have grown strong and Sir Keir has structured plans to take control swiftly from top to bottom in April. I'm told Red Len is also on a short pier for a long walk at Unite, some very interesting stuff developing there. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 10 February 2020 Share Posted 10 February 2020 2 hours ago, Strokes said: Well I can remember what the country looked like 10 years ago and there might have been less on the streets but it was nowhere near zero. They did hand the country over in a good state regarding homelessness, but that’s disregarding that absolutely everything else was a complete mess. I’m sure I read somewhere, homelessness now is still less than half of the early 2000s? I’ll have to check on that. There's clearly some truth in what you say, but depends which measurement you look at.... The figures for "households accepted by councils as unintentionally homeless and in priority need" tally with what you say: https://fullfact.org/economy/homelessness-england/ (1st graph) - Figure already high in 1998, even higher by 2003, massive fall by 2010, 50% rise since then but still less than half the early 2000s figure However, the "rough sleeping" figure has risen by 250% in England since 2010: https://ourworldindata.org/homelessness-rise-england (DK what figures were before 2010) Probably multiple factors feeding into that rise in the "rough sleeping" figure: Universal Credit complications/delays, drugs, mental health problems & poor response, insecure tenancies, debt/gambling? Would be interesting to know the policies that cut the wider homelessness figure so drastically 2003-2010 & which have meant that it hasn't yet returned to those levels, despite the lack of housing, increased population, public spending cuts etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 10 February 2020 Share Posted 10 February 2020 21 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: There's clearly some truth in what you say, but depends which measurement you look at.... The figures for "households accepted by councils as unintentionally homeless and in priority need" tally with what you say: https://fullfact.org/economy/homelessness-england/ (1st graph) - Figure already high in 1998, even higher by 2003, massive fall by 2010, 50% rise since then but still less than half the early 2000s figure However, the "rough sleeping" figure has risen by 250% in England since 2010: https://ourworldindata.org/homelessness-rise-england (DK what figures were before 2010) Probably multiple factors feeding into that rise in the "rough sleeping" figure: Universal Credit complications/delays, drugs, mental health problems & poor response, insecure tenancies, debt/gambling? Would be interesting to know the policies that cut the wider homelessness figure so drastically 2003-2010 & which have meant that it hasn't yet returned to those levels, despite the lack of housing, increased population, public spending cuts etc. If I’m honest, what I think about when we talk of homelessness is definitely rough sleepers. As awful as living in temporary accommodation must be, I doubt it compares to sleeping on the streets. Can you find figures of rough sleeping going back beyond 2010? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WigstonWanderer Posted 10 February 2020 Share Posted 10 February 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Strokes said: If I’m honest, what I think about when we talk of homelessness is definitely rough sleepers. As awful as living in temporary accommodation must be, I doubt it compares to sleeping on the streets. Can you find figures of rough sleeping going back beyond 2010? It always surprises me that modern, relatively rich societies can’t provide a solution to rough sleeping. Even here in Perth we have rough sleepers in the city centre. It should be possible to provide some sort of Japanese style stacked bedding for shelter from the elements and facilities for bathing, etc. Yes, there would be an expense but it should be affordable if given the right priority. Perhaps add in medical/mental services. Even the highest point in that graph is “only” around 5,000. Surely a modern society could provide such facilities for that number? I doubt it is a “tip of the iceberg” type problem. Edited 10 February 2020 by WigstonWanderer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 10 February 2020 Share Posted 10 February 2020 51 minutes ago, Strokes said: If I’m honest, what I think about when we talk of homelessness is definitely rough sleepers. As awful as living in temporary accommodation must be, I doubt it compares to sleeping on the streets. Can you find figures of rough sleeping going back beyond 2010? Difficult to find but found this (a change in counting method in 2010 caused a jump up but the trend is clear): ....also found this more detailed history of homelessness policy over decades: https://www.crisis.org.uk/ending-homelessness/the-plan-to-end-homelessness-full-version/background/chapter-2-public-policy-and-homelessness/ This seems to get to the crux: "Public policy initiatives to tackle and reduce homelessness are proven to make a lasting and positive impact. The reforms outlined in this chapter show that homelessness is a phenomenon that can be predicted and prevented. For those who do lose their home, it is a problem that can be solved quickly and permanently. The Housing (Homeless Persons) Act (1977) provided the basic entitlements to homelessness support from which both extended rights and targeted interventions have successfully grown. However, decades of under-investment in affordable housing and recent erosion of welfare entitlements have seriously undermined the impact of homelessness protections and local governments' ability to deliver them". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxin_Mad Posted 10 February 2020 Share Posted 10 February 2020 To be honest the whole attitude to homelessness is wrong and outdated. We need to give people the support to break the cycle. Create spaces where then can rebuild their lives with support. I suspect the cost of homelessness as it is on services such as health care, policing is most likely far higher than doing a proper supporting job. This is what's frustrating about government, the solution is not always more money. It can often just require better thinking. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 10 February 2020 Share Posted 10 February 2020 11 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: Difficult to find but found this (a change in counting method in 2010 caused a jump up but the trend is clear): ....also found this more detailed history of homelessness policy over decades: https://www.crisis.org.uk/ending-homelessness/the-plan-to-end-homelessness-full-version/background/chapter-2-public-policy-and-homelessness/ This seems to get to the crux: "Public policy initiatives to tackle and reduce homelessness are proven to make a lasting and positive impact. The reforms outlined in this chapter show that homelessness is a phenomenon that can be predicted and prevented. For those who do lose their home, it is a problem that can be solved quickly and permanently. The Housing (Homeless Persons) Act (1977) provided the basic entitlements to homelessness support from which both extended rights and targeted interventions have successfully grown. However, decades of under-investment in affordable housing and recent erosion of welfare entitlements have seriously undermined the impact of homelessness protections and local governments' ability to deliver them". It’s a shame that new method of counting comes in where it does but like you say it’s clearly an upwards trend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 11 February 2020 Share Posted 11 February 2020 9 hours ago, Foxin_Mad said: To be honest the whole attitude to homelessness is wrong and outdated. We need to give people the support to break the cycle. Create spaces where then can rebuild their lives with support. I suspect the cost of homelessness as it is on services such as health care, policing is most likely far higher than doing a proper supporting job. This is what's frustrating about government, the solution is not always more money. It can often just require better thinking. There isn''t and seemingly never has been joined up thinking between government departments or with Local Government which also suffers from a lack of joined up thinking. They all seem to be just interested in their own individual progression over ridden by party political dogma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts