The tactical foul

[UniFox21]

Officials have an odd stance on these. A few times Chelsea have done cynical tackles and gone unpunished. Barnes nutmegs James and is tripped to stop a ball being played - no booking. Jorginho had 3 counter attack stopping challenges before being booked too.

[st albans fox]

23 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

Officials have an odd stance on these. A few times Chelsea have done cynical tackles and gone unpunished. Barnes nutmegs James and is tripped to stop a ball being played - no booking. Jorginho had 3 counter attack stopping challenges before being booked too.

we did make a few today aswell .....though not as clever or numerous as theirs ....

[UniFox21]

3 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

we did make a few today aswell .....though not as clever or numerous as theirs ....

Oh yeah we did, Maddison rightly booked for his. 

We aren't 'big' enough to get away with them

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

Madison's was a yellow card regardless of where on the pitch or the circumstances surrounding it, lunged in about 5 feet from the ball above the ankle. Ricardo hacked down one of theirs when they were breaking with numbers and didn't get booked. Swings and roundabouts.

[Nicolo Barella]

There should be some rules to regulate it, but I don't have a problem with it being in the game. We do it literally all the time, and get away with it a lot too.

[CUJimmy]

1 hour ago, UniFox21 said:

Oh yeah we did, Maddison rightly booked for his. 

We aren't 'big' enough to get away with them

I said to the bloke next to me that we need to do more of this, especially at this stage of the season when it is unlikely that anyone will get to 10 yellows.

 

I hate saying this but everyone else does it with Man City probably being the worst.

[5waller5]

Maybe it's time to have three yellow cards instead of two ..... And have a lower threshold for bookings?

[Clever Fox]

3 minutes ago, 5waller5 said:

Maybe it's time to have three yellow cards instead of two ..... And have a lower threshold for bookings?

A Sin bin would be a better option. Where players are taken out of the game for 10 or 15 minutes.

[5waller5]

Just now, Clever Fox said:

A Sin bin would be a better option. Where players are taken out of the game for 10 or 15 minutes.

Two yellows = sin bin?

Three = Sent off?

[Clever Fox]

3 minutes ago, 5waller5 said:

Two yellows = sin bin?

Three = Sent off?

Something like that, But you would still need the instant red card. Too many games are being ruined by early sending offs. When a period off the pitch would be enough. 

[5waller5]

5 minutes ago, Clever Fox said:

Something like that, But you would still need the instant red card. Too many games are being ruined by early sending offs. When a period off the pitch would be enough. 

 

It would also make the job of the ref slightly easier ..... imagine ten minutes into a game and a very badly mis-timed tackle, do i send him off or book him ..... at 80 minutes I'd send him off but does the challenge warrant 80 minutes of 10 men? Kinda gives them the answer if they had a sin bin

[foxes_rule1978]

I have seen the tactical handball work for the opposition against us the last two matches 

[Clever Fox]

12 minutes ago, 5waller5 said:

 

It would also make the job of the ref slightly easier ..... imagine ten minutes into a game and a very badly mis-timed tackle, do i send him off or book him ..... at 80 minutes I'd send him off but does the challenge warrant 80 minutes of 10 men? Kinda gives them the answer if they had a sin bin

Yes, The Sounthampton vs Utd game last week was the most recent example. The challenge wasn't that bad yet the game was over the minute it happened. Utd ran out easy 4 nil winners.

[Chrysalis]

finally glad to see us starting doing these against chelsea.

[Bourbon Fox]

On 30/01/2020 at 12:44, Dahnsouff said:

IMHO. The only way to resolve this is unfortunately retrospectively.

If after review, your team is found to have submitted cynical, tactical fouls with the sole intention of disabling your opponents movement, breaks, goal scoring opportunities, then the punishment should be club wide with player suspension(s) issued post match.

It can be too difficult to make a valid conclusion during a match.

The message would get there, even if it took time.

 

On 30/01/2020 at 12:54, st albans fox said:

How do you prove that the tactical fouling was pre meditated?  I cannot see how this can be resolved other than to introduce something like they have in basketball whereby after a certain number of infringements, the next foul is pen, irrespective of where it occurs. that will simply encourage players not staying on their feet with any contact and then you have another problem ....
 

I can’t really think how you enforce it - you don’t want players being sent off for someone in front of them slowing down and falling over when they feel any contact in their backside 
 

maybe there is a way of monitoring fouls committed within five seconds of possession t/over which aren’t yellow card offences and totting them up - once they go over a certain number, the next one is a straight yellow, irrelevant of how bad/where/who

 

 

Just catching up

 

This, finally, is a benefit to the level of technological analysis that can be applied to a game these days. 

 

A manager can request that a panel reviews a game post-match, and apply retrospective cards for fouls if judged to be clearly tactical, persistent or deliberate. 

 

Ditto diving. 

 

Points accumulated lead to suspensions in the same way as cards issued during the match. 

[st albans fox]

9 hours ago, Bourbon Fox said:

 

Just catching up

 

This, finally, is a benefit to the level of technological analysis that can be applied to a game these days. 

 

A manager can request that a panel reviews a game post-match, and apply retrospective cards for fouls if judged to be clearly tactical, persistent or deliberate. 

 

Ditto diving. 

 

Points accumulated lead to suspensions in the same way as cards issued during the match. 

The ref should be dealing with persistent fouling during a game by a single player.  I’m not in favour of going back over footage and deciding to apply yellow cards for things missed during the game. that means that the side which suffered the injustice don’t benefit ....I get that this happens with retrospective reds but with VAR there should be almost none of these now 

it means you can’t plan for your next game because you won’t know if one of your players will be suspended (or the opposition) ..... sorry, but it doesn’t deal with the issue imo. 
 

I’m all for a forensic assessment of each teams play at the end of every month and if it is found that they are making persistent rotational tactical fouling, (obviously would need an agreed system to work that out  ), then deducting points would be ok with me. 

 

[Collymore]

It would have suited us during the MON years as we put almost any freekick on the pitch into the box and scored lots of goals from them. 

 

Now it seems we play any freekick over 35 yards from the goal back to the defenders or keeper. 

[Bourbon Fox]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

that means that the side which suffered the injustice don’t benefit 

 

 

Deducting points would be ok with me. 

 

Choose one

[CUJimmy]

2 hours ago, st albans fox said:

The ref should be dealing with persistent fouling during a game by a single player.  I’m not in favour of going back over footage and deciding to apply yellow cards for things missed during the game. that means that the side which suffered the injustice don’t benefit ....I get that this happens with retrospective reds but with VAR there should be almost none of these now 

it means you can’t plan for your next game because you won’t know if one of your players will be suspended (or the opposition) ..... sorry, but it doesn’t deal with the issue imo. 
 

I’m all for a forensic assessment of each teams play at the end of every month and if it is found that they are making persistent rotational tactical fouling, (obviously would need an agreed system to work that out  ), then deducting points would be ok with me. 

 

The point is that what a several teams do is rotational fouling so that a playmaker gets fouled early on by 4 or 5 different players.  None of them dangerous so no yellow and nobody gets one on totting up either.

 

I would rather referees had a quiet word with captains if they see it happening and say that the next one who fouls that player gets a yellow.  It works in both codes of rugby for persistent infringements such as offside or collapsing a maul.