Football Manager 2021

[shen]

1 hour ago, Far Post Gerry said:

Fair enough, and thanks for the feedback. It just seems weird and glitchy to me. This guy is one of the top scorers in the Championship, but the game says he's only good enough for the Vanarama. He's been my top scorer for three seasons straight, but I'm repeatedly told to get rid. You want the game to be realistic, but this just isn't.

 

As an aside, my Assistant Manager is Rob Kelly, so maybe I shouldn't be too surprised by the poor advice!

Well if it was a realistic game, you wouldn't have three consecutive promotions with Exeter, right?

As Finnegan has said before, most of the advice from the backroom staff is useless.

It's really select bits of info which will actually be of value to you.

The star system is probably the most confusing in recent versions because it looks at total values of a player. But you never rate a player on his total stats.

[moore_94]

Just noticed Felix Passlack has come on in the Dortmund vs Sevilla game, use to be my go to signing on FM a few years ago, would end up as a world class right back you could get for usually less than £1million at the start of a save!

Edited 9 March 2021 by moore_94

[shen]

12 hours ago, Far Post Gerry said:

Fair enough, and thanks for the feedback. It just seems weird and glitchy to me. This guy is one of the top scorers in the Championship, but the game says he's only good enough for the Vanarama. He's been my top scorer for three seasons straight, but I'm repeatedly told to get rid. You want the game to be realistic, but this just isn't.

 

As an aside, my Assistant Manager is Rob Kelly, so maybe I shouldn't be too surprised by the poor advice!

just out of interest, can you post a screenshot of him? I'm curious now

[Md9]

Just realised this is free to download on Xbox game pass so will give it a try this week 

[Far Post Gerry]

1 hour ago, shen said:

just out of interest, can you post a screenshot of him? I'm curious now

 

 

Here you go. Admittedly his stats aren't great, and he's not getting any younger, but he does the business. Every season he's been out injured for at least a month too - he would've comfortably got 20 goals a season if he stayed fit.

 

Matt Jay and Randall Williams are also still in my team from League 2 days, plus a few other squad players. No real budget to improve the squad but loans have helped me out massively (Elanga & Laird from Man U, Kelleher & Van den Berg from Liverpool, etc).

 

[shen]

49 minutes ago, Far Post Gerry said:

 

 

Here you go. Admittedly his stats aren't great, and he's not getting any younger, but he does the business. Every season he's been out injured for at least a month too - he would've comfortably got 20 goals a season if he stayed fit.

 

Matt Jay and Randall Williams are also still in my team from League 2 days, plus a few other squad players. No real budget to improve the squad but loans have helped me out massively (Elanga & Laird from Man U, Kelleher & Van den Berg from Liverpool, etc).

 

Hah, well I hate to say this, but your staff are spot on. He's Vanarama to lower League 2 level at best. The fact you've gotten that many goals out of his speaks volumes about your ability to set up good tactics. I would almost guarantee that a Championship level striker would get 5-10 goals more. 
Props to you though and keep proving your staff wrong!

[Far Post Gerry]

19 minutes ago, shen said:

Hah, well I hate to say this, but your staff are spot on. He's Vanarama to lower League 2 level at best. The fact you've gotten that many goals out of his speaks volumes about your ability to set up good tactics. I would almost guarantee that a Championship level striker would get 5-10 goals more. 
Props to you though and keep proving your staff wrong!

Ha, fair enough - I'll take that. I'll replace him one day (if I ever get given some cash to spend), and I'm sure there are plenty better options out there, but to me he'll always be a legend!

[Finnegan]

@Far Post Gerry @shen

 

It's a weird one. I laughed when I first saw the screenshot because he's clearly a bag of shit, from one glance it's pretty obvious this is a player with a low current ability (CA.) By and large, that's the sum measure of how good he is, theoretically. Current ability is scored from 0 - 200, with 200 being Messi at his peak, 180 odd being maybe Kevin De Bruyne / Robert Lewandowski, by the time you get to the 150s you're looking still at fairly top end Premier League players, Madders, Ndidi, Tielemans etc. Strong Championship players are going to be in the 110-130 bracket.

 

Your man looks like he's got 60-80 odd at best. Superficially, he's objectively shit.

 

However, if you were to give me 80 CA and tell me to build a striker in the editor, it'd probably look a lot like that. His standout attributes are pretty much exactly the attributes he needs to be a poacher; anticipation, acceleration, composure, movement, finishing. I also assume his agility, pace and acceleration were noticeably higher when you started playing as, at 32 and with a middling natural fitness, I assume he's lost a bit recently in his physicals.

 

We also can't see his hiddens, so it's possible he's got decent scores in things like consistency, pressure, big matches, professionalism, ambition, which would keep him constantly ticking over for you where a more obviously skilled football that's perhaps a bit more mentally frail (think famous cases like Ravell Morrison) may not really come through.

 

So even though his CA is at the level of a pub footballer, 12s and 13s in those attributes are actually pretty good levels for a League One player and even a mid table Championship one, to be fair. But Shen is right, one thing I've consistently said to people over the years (like a decade!) on this forum is that just because a player is doing well for you, it doesn't make him good. No footballer is an individual, all goal scoring stats belong collectively to the team and that includes you the manager. It's about your tactic, your playmakers, your whole squad delivering. Just because a player is scoring goals it doesn't mean that he himself is the star, maybe your system is so good that even Josh Low would win the Golden Boot. 90% of the time attribute profiles can be taken at face value and if you signed a better striker (and, lets be honest, you can probably just go straight to the Player Search screen, filter for Transfer Listed and find a better one in 2 seconds for pennies) he'd probably score even more.

 

FM21 is a game in which strikers can rack up massive numbers, so 17/18/19 league goals a season isn't as impressive as it would have been last year. I just finished a season with Real Oviedo in which an 18 year old regen broke Leo Messi's long standing, seemingly untouchable single season La Liga record by scoring 56 league goals and he's only got about ~140/150 CA. You couldn't score a one on one in 19 or 20 to save your life, this year they all go in. Play direct with a quick striker and you should be racking up 25+ for your star man fairly easily if your tactic isn't shit.

 

So yeah, I'd replace him in a heartbeat. BUT, the beauty of this game is that it's a sandbox and you can do what you want. If he's got sentimental value to you and he's scoring as many goals as you're happy with then who fvcking cares? You do you mate, enjoy it. You paid your own cash money for the game, you play it how you want.

 

Edited 10 March 2021 by Finnegan

[shen]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

@Far Post Gerry @shen

 

So even though his CA is at the level of a pub footballer, 12s and 13s in those attributes are actually pretty good levels for a League One player and even a mid table Championship one, to be fair.

 

FM21 is a game in which strikers can rack up massive numbers, so 17/18/19 league goals a season isn't as impressive as it would have been last year. I just finished a season with Real Oviedo in which an 18 year old regen broke Leo Messi's long standing, seemingly untouchable single season La Liga record by scoring 56 league goals and he's only got about ~140/150 CA. You couldn't score a one on one in 19 or 20 to save your life, this year they all go in. Play direct with a quick striker and you should be racking up 25+ for your star man fairly easily if your tactic isn't shit.

 

I'd seriously suggest that 12s and 13s in key stats is something you could achieve at League Two level, simply because the English leagues have excellent reputations and can attract no-name freebies every time. It's just about the player database size and time you're willing to invest. Attribute masking and lack of previous shortlists/player recommendations makes it a lot trickier obviously, but at Championship level, I'm surprised Ajose has scored as many as that. You'd expect defenses to be a lot better.

As for scoring 56 league goals, that is still seriously impressive! Granted, I've only played 4½ seasons in FM21 in total so far, so my tactics are likely still suboptimal, but I'd be ecstatic with those figures. Playing in Italy now and I'm missing a lot of 1-on-1's and it seems there's been an update nerfing long throws since I went from 20-25 goals a season to somewhere around 5-10 (some of which might be because of far superior defenses at Serie A level, but still).

[Far Post Gerry]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

@Far Post Gerry @shen

 

It's a weird one. I laughed when I first saw the screenshot because he's clearly a bag of shit, from one glance it's pretty obvious this is a player with a low current ability (CA.) By and large, that's the sum measure of how good he is, theoretically. Current ability is scored from 0 - 200, with 200 being Messi at his peak, 180 odd being maybe Kevin De Bruyne / Robert Lewandowski, by the time you get to the 150s you're looking still at fairly top end Premier League players, Madders, Ndidi, Tielemans etc. Strong Championship players are going to be in the 110-130 bracket.

 

Your man looks like he's got 60-80 odd at best. Superficially, he's objectively shit.

 

However, if you were to give me 80 CA and tell me to build a striker in the editor, it'd probably look a lot like that. His standout attributes are pretty much exactly the attributes he needs to be a poacher; anticipation, acceleration, composure, movement, finishing. I also assume his agility, pace and acceleration were noticeably higher when you started playing as, at 32 and with a middling natural fitness, I assume he's lost a bit recently in his physicals.

 

We also can't see his hiddens, so it's possible he's got decent scores in things like consistency, pressure, big matches, professionalism, ambition, which would keep him constantly ticking over for you where a more obviously skilled football that's perhaps a bit more mentally frail (think famous cases like Ravell Morrison) may not really come through.

 

So even though his CA is at the level of a pub footballer, 12s and 13s in those attributes are actually pretty good levels for a League One player and even a mid table Championship one, to be fair. But Shen is right, one thing I've consistently said to people over the years (like a decade!) on this forum is that just because a player is doing well for you, it doesn't make him good. No footballer is an individual, all goal scoring stats belong collectively to the team and that includes you the manager. It's about your tactic, your playmakers, your whole squad delivering. Just because a player is scoring goals it doesn't mean that he himself is the star, maybe your system is so good that even Josh Low would win the Golden Boot. 90% of the time attribute profiles can be taken at face value and if you signed a better striker (and, lets be honest, you can probably just go straight to the Player Search screen, filter for Transfer Listed and find a better one in 2 seconds for pennies) he'd probably score even more.

 

FM21 is a game in which strikers can rack up massive numbers, so 17/18/19 league goals a season isn't as impressive as it would have been last year. I just finished a season with Real Oviedo in which an 18 year old regen broke Leo Messi's long standing, seemingly untouchable single season La Liga record by scoring 56 league goals and he's only got about ~140/150 CA. You couldn't score a one on one in 19 or 20 to save your life, this year they all go in. Play direct with a quick striker and you should be racking up 25+ for your star man fairly easily if your tactic isn't shit.

 

So yeah, I'd replace him in a heartbeat. BUT, the beauty of this game is that it's a sandbox and you can do what you want. If he's got sentimental value to you and he's scoring as many goals as you're happy with then who fvcking cares? You do you mate, enjoy it. You paid your own cash money for the game, you play it how you want.

 

Good insight, cheers. I think being attacking, having overlapping wing backs, and an AM (Andre Dozzell) chipping in 15+ assists a season helps a lot. When Ajose got injured, his replacement (Harry Chapman) also scored a fair few. So yeah, maybe it's down to the tactics rather than the player. But still, god love him!

 

[Finnegan]

2 hours ago, shen said:

scoring 56 league goals, that is still seriously impressive!

 

Yeah I mean obviously I've struck gold with a solid tactic and I've built a decent team of Spanish youngsters. But the striker in question has 15 finishing, 16 composure, 15 odd off the ball, pace, acceleration etc. 

 

We're talking a player in the Brenner, Gabigol, Josef Martinez class. 

 

56 is obviously extreme but I don't think it's difficult to be racking up 30+ league goals if you're one of the strongest teams in an 18+ team league. 

 

I'm just about to start my first Leicester save on this version, so I'll let you know how Vards gets on season one.

Edited 10 March 2021 by Finnegan

[Md9]

Set a new game up last night on the Xbox to give it a try. Looks alright.you don’t have the option of the team talks or interviews. Think there is an instant result you can do as well which will make you finish a season in about an hour 😂

[shen]

21 minutes ago, Md9 said:

Set a new game up last night on the Xbox to give it a try. Looks alright.you don’t have the option of the team talks or interviews. Think there is an instant result you can do as well which will make you finish a season in about an hour 😂

Yeah, I totally would be able to keep my meddling fingers from tactics, scouting, training etc and finish in an hour

[Md9]

1 hour ago, shen said:

Yeah, I totally would be able to keep my meddling fingers from tactics, scouting, training etc and finish in an hour

😂 I can’t remember the last time I finished a season on the game I always start play for a few days then end up not playing again for a while so never get through it as much as I used to. Played 1 game agaisnt West Brom with city last night drew 0-0 have over 15 shots and they had a player sent off in the first half. 

[adejo92]

Really enjoying this one having started a couple of saves to familiarise myself as i haven't owned a copy for a few year.

 

On to the 4th season with Borussia Dortmund now and i have managed to get together a decent team. Ronaldo's contract has since lapsed so he's no longer here however i do now have Trent Alexander Arnold as well and Tammy Abraham. Took all my strength to decline a 200m bid from Liverpool for Haaland!

 

1st season - Bundesliga, Domestic Cup and Europa League.

2nd Season - Bundesliga, Domestic Cup, Champions League, Super Cup.

3rd Season - Bundesliga, Domestic Cup & Super cup.

 

 

 

 

Edited 13 March 2021 by adejo92

[Dan LCFC]

I can imagine you'll score about 90 and let in about 80  

[adejo92]

12 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

I can imagine you'll score about 90 and let in about 80  

If you were referring to the one I posted, it's surprisingly good considering John Stones is there next to Hummels who's just about using a zimmer frame!

 

Alexander Arnold has tightened it up since and the GK saves a lot of easy goals!

 

[shen]

1 hour ago, pmcla26 said:

Just been relegated with Blackburn in my third season in charge, got promotion with an average championship side by playing counter attacking football, didn’t work in the Premier League and now looking to change the side into something more possession/high pressing based to make us better equipped if promotion happens again. 
 

Anyone got any useful tips on helping with the transition? Or any formations that are good for high press/possession but not the standard 4231 (never get decent numbers from the front 4 playing this) 

Playing three strikers (or strikerless, with AMCs) in a 4-3-3 seems to be successful for many. 4-4-2 is pretty solid as always, but 4-2-3-1 should be just as good. Of course, it all depends on the personnel and the instructions and roles/duties you give the players. Don't forget to set up your set pieces!

 

Edit: I'm playing a narrow 4-4-2 with a diamond with my Legnago Salus team. Got me two straight promotions and a sixth place finish in my inaugural Serie A season. Did it iwth an £80k wage budget too, so it can absolutely overperform.

Edited 14 March 2021 by shen

[Finnegan]

@Stadt on the subject of ridiculously over-rated youngsters from 'big' clubs, have you seen the state of Curtis Jones in the new patch? Literally one of the best midfielders in the world

[shen]

42 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

Thanks for the tips. I was using 3412 with wing backs and 442/4411 (depending on personnel) and using a medium block to press aggressively and counter in the middle of the pitch. 
 

Funnily enough I bit the bullet and went 4231 as it suits my players best and stripped the tactics back to basic instructions to press high. 
 

In the play off spots after 11/12 games (I think), have drawn one and lost 3 then won the rest - so good results but not amazing. 
 

I managed to sign Tonali, Salisu and Hlozek last season (Tonali and Hlozek on frees) and they’re still with me now so hopefully should have enough quality to get out the division whether that’s automatic promotion or play-offs (again) 

 

Thanks for telling me to set up set pieces as well, done a quick YouTube search and fiddled with things that the video said to do etc. and have since scored a couple of corner goals (wasn’t scoring any at all before hand) - hoping over the course of the season will slowly see that tally increase. 
 

Sounds like you’ve got something good going on in your save, that is seriously impressive with an 80k wage budget. 

The key is getting free or cheap loans. It seems Italy has no restrictions on loans from foreign clubs (as long as the players have EU nationality). I trimmed the squad and filled it up with loans. Even in Serie A, only £30k of my wages went to my own players with the remaining £50k going towards loan wages.

Another tip: You can 'rate your tactic' on this website: https://ratemytactic.web.app/

It basically just checks that you're not contradicting your instructions by putting i.e. high pressing line and no closing down.

You can use the in-game analysis to see where your defensive & attacking strengths/weaknesses are and try to address those too.

For example, I've found that my Legnago Salus team are pretty poor at defending in general and playing a narrow formation often leads to overloads on the flanks, so I try to get central defenders with good positioning and jumping to clear high crosses, while my fullbacks need concentration and preferably good positioning and pace.

But to keep the opposition from bombarding my weak backline I press very high and keep a high defensive line too. I'll get caught out regularly, but I'm also making two or three times as many chances.

For some reason, I've found the 'Very Attacking' i.e. the old gung-ho mentality to be working very well. It used to be completely suicidal, but I got away wins at Inter, Lazio, Juventus and Atalanta playing 90 minutes like that with a squad made up of mainly Serie B and C players.

[shen]

41 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

Thanks for the tips, very insightful mate, I’ll defo be trying to pay a bit more attention to detail with some of that advice! 
 

I’ll give that website link a go and see how it works, played a few games this morning and now second on 38 points after 17 games. 
 

Managed to get Almada on loan from City on the final day of the window and he’s magic. Starting to see the attack gel together now and getting results - I think Bradley Dack (who I sold in the summer) just wasn’t up to the task at number 10, unfortunately - although number 10 does seem to be a problem position in this seasons version of FM. 

 

Yeah, the AMC spot is difficult to make work properly. It seems the Shadow Striker option is very good though, especially if playing without strikers. They're just more difficult for the AI to pick up in the current match engine.
I play with an AMC, but he rarely shines. I don't think the SS option works for me (yet) despite having two forwards running the channels, so I play him as AM(s) or (a) and sometimes shift him to the left or right if the opposition team play with a DMC

[moore_94]

3 hours ago, shen said:

Yeah, the AMC spot is difficult to make work properly. It seems the Shadow Striker option is very good though, especially if playing without strikers. They're just more difficult for the AI to pick up in the current match engine.
I play with an AMC, but he rarely shines. I don't think the SS option works for me (yet) despite having two forwards running the channels, so I play him as AM(s) or (a) and sometimes shift him to the left or right if the opposition team play with a DMC

Out of boredom I did a season with Barcelona over the last week with Coutinho as an AMC (Attacking Midfielder Support, sometimes attack depending on opponent)

 

Messi (AMR) Dembele (AML) Griezmann (ST) all absolutely smashed it with about 30 goal involvements each, Coutinho managed 11 in total I think it was, still finished the season with about a 7.5 average rating, just didn’t seem to get many actual goals or assists

Edited 15 March 2021 by moore_94

[shen]

3 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

Out of boredom I did a season with Barcelona over the last week with Coutinho as an AMC (Attacking Midfielder Support, sometimes attack depending on opponent)

 

Messi (AMR) Dembele (AML) Griezmann (ST) all absolutely smashed it with about 30 goal involvements each, Coutinho managed 11 in total I think it was, still finished the season with about a 7.5 average rating, just didn’t seem to get many actual goals or assists

AM is a solid role for the AMC. If he got 7.5 on average, that's fantastic. He must've created tons of chances.

It's not all about goals/assists. That central cog that opens up play, keeps possession, wins tackles etc is just as important for the team.

[shen]

@pmcla26 Very solid work! That is a very strong Championship side. I mean, Tonali and Kudus have no business there Surprised you're not playing RJJ up front as an AF though. Are you getting good ratings for Skipp? I feel the Mezzala or BBM role or even the CM(a) role works better as runs from midfield are so effective.

[Pegglesworth]

Does anyone know if you’re supposed to get prize money in Ligue 1? I’ve gone none so far and don’t know if it’s a glitch or just how France works.