Football Manager 2021

[Stadt]

Having players' positions as 'accomplished' or 'natural' whatever takes up CA but as far as I'm aware playing a player in a position they're not totally accustomed to only results in a minor hit to a player's decisions attribute iirc.

 

Apologies Tom about the over the top comments, I appreciate your hands are tied and it's grating seeing young Liverpool and United players being overrated.

[moore_94]

Managing Coalville in the 7th tier, although his mentals aren't the best, I was very suprised to find this keeper playing in the 9th tier with those technical stats!

 

[moore_94]

14 hours ago, Finnegan said:

The problem with Barnes is you over state his weak foot (besides a few long shots for West Brom, how often does he really do sensational stuff with his left?) and you've also given him too many strong positions (when was the last time he played AMC, RM, CM or LM) so you're already chewing in to his current ability. 

To be fair he has actually done quite well using his left foot this season

 

Good finish at keepers near post vs Braga in the 3-3 draw

Smashed the ball into the top corner in the 2-1 loss to Fulham

Brilliant goal from 20 yards in 2-2 draw with Man Utd

18 yard goal into the corner in 1-1 draw with Palace

6 yard finish in 2-1 win vs Villa

 

4 of his 9 league goals are with his left, 5 of his 13 so far this season

 

15 left foot is probably a little high, but only by a couple of points really, 13 probably more realistic

[Oswinner]

Hey. New to the discussion. I understand about CA/PA after using lockdown to edit a load of FM16 attributes so I can replay the 15/16 season in all its glory. City were dog rough at the start of that game.
 

What’s Barnes’ CA/PA? I’d guess about 150/-9 at the start of the season? Have his best attributes be Speed/Acceleration/Balance/Long Shots (15+) left foot is half decent aswell. I understand a 15. Anywhere between a 10 and 15 is good for me.

and then something like;

 

20 AML

15 ML, AMC, MC

10 AMR, MR, ST

 

All subjective of course.

Edited 25 March 2021 by Oswinner

[Finnegan]

On 21/03/2021 at 11:37, tomfmlcfc said:

like to keep as much versatility as I can, even if a player hasn't played a position for a long time - Harvey obviously came through playing centrally, and has been used sparingly without much joy on the right. It is a difficult balancing act when deciding whether to prioritise whether a player is actually any good in a position,

 

In the current version, players learn new positions remarkably quickly. It's very easy to retrain a player positionally and even when played out of position, all they lose is a bit of decision making anyway. 

 

There's no need to make everyone extremely versatile and accomplished in stacks of positions. 

 

You've done it with Madders as well, which I find a bit frustrating given he looks far from comfortable when put on the wing in real life, he looks frankly abject. And I can't remember the last time he played as a striker? 

 

It all eats up your CA that you could be putting in to actual attributes, both visible and hidden. 

[tomfmlcfc]

5 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

In the current version, players learn new positions remarkably quickly. It's very easy to retrain a player positionally and even when played out of position, all they lose is a bit of decision making anyway. 

 

There's no need to make everyone extremely versatile and accomplished in stacks of positions. 

 

You've done it with Madders as well, which I find a bit frustrating given he looks far from comfortable when put on the wing in real life, he looks frankly abject. And I can't remember the last time he played as a striker? 

 

It all eats up your CA that you could be putting in to actual attributes, both visible and hidden. 

Whether the game allows you to retrain quickly or not has nothing to do with why we make players versatile where appropriate. If a player has played a position in the past it is important to reflect that in the game. We don't tend to completely bin off positional ability, even if a player hasn't played that role in years, in the same way we don't cut potential ability if a player gets to 24-25 and hasn't hit the heights people thought they were capable of.

 

Whether Maddison is any good out wide is a different debate, but he has played in that position a number of times. If he doesn't have a high rating of positional competence there, then the 'AI Rodgers' will not select him out wide, which is not at all realistic.

[Finnegan]

21 minutes ago, tomfmlcfc said:

Whether the game allows you to retrain quickly or not has nothing to do with why we make players versatile where appropriate

 

But I think it does, really, when you state yourself that your personal preference for having versatile players is a driving force behind your decision making.

 

Barnes had played a nominal number of games of Premier League football on the right but you've given him 19 at AMR. He's almost never played at AMC but you've given him 18, he's played once or twice as an auxiliary striker alongside Vards in an emergency and you've given him 15, he's played at CM once since youth football and that was in a Champions League away game in Porto (IIRC?) when he was played alongside the reserves so we could rest the first team - you've given him 13.

 

Maddison has scores of 18 and 16 respectively for the wings, positions he's never looked comfortable in and rarely plays, except for a few situations where Rodgers has tinkered with him out there because he doesn't like his other wide options in the squad. When he plays there, it's a great example in real life of what should be the football manager equivalent of you putting a player with no positional familiarity out there. He naturally finds himself drifting inside and gravitating back towards his AMC role habitually because it's not where he's used to playing.

 

Ricardo (whose template I'm guessing you largely adopted from Nice's editor?) who was a striker in his youth career at Porto, has 7 at ST. He played more at left back than at right back in his first of two years at Nice and yet he's a 13 at left back now, presumably because he's barely played there in the last three years. These seem like far more balanced interpretations of players who've previously dabbled in other positions.

 

It just feels like the positional footprint of these guys is exaggerated, you could tone almost all of those alternative positions down by 5-6ish if not more. I'm not sure how much CA that even frees up to be fair but probably enough to give a guy with 9 Premier League goals this season more than 12 finishing. 

 

Edited 26 March 2021 by Finnegan

[tomfmlcfc]

2 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

But I think it does, really, when you state yourself that your personal preference for having versatile players is a driving force behind your decision making.

 

Barnes had played a nominal number of games of Premier League football on the right but you've given him 19 at AMR. He's almost never played at AMC but you've given him 18, he's played once or twice as an auxiliary striker alongside Vards in an emergency and you've given him 15, he's played at CM once since youth football and that was in a Champions League away game in Porto (IIRC?) when he was played alongside the reserves so we could rest the first team - you've given him 13.

 

Maddison has scores of 18 and 16 respectively for the wings, positions he's never looked comfortable in and rarely plays, except for a few situations where Rodgers has tinkered with him out there because he doesn't like his other wide options in the squad. When he plays there, it's a great example in real life of what should be the football manager equivalent of you putting a player with no positional familiarity out there. He naturally finds himself drifting inside and gravitating back towards his AMC role habitually because it's not where he's used to playing.

 

Ricardo (whose template I'm guessing you largely adopted from Nice's editor?) who was a striker in his youth career at Porto, has 7 at ST. He played more at left back than at right back in his first of two years at Nice and yet he's a 13 at left back now, presumably because he's barely played there in the last three years. These seem like far more balanced interpretations of players who've previously dabbled in other positions.

 

It just feels like the positional footprint of these guys is exaggerated, you could tone almost all of those alternative positions down by 5-6ish if not more. I'm not sure how much CA that even frees up to be fair but probably enough to give a guy with 9 Premier League goals this season more than 12 finishing. 

 

Perhaps I should clarify it's more than a personal preference - it's advised that in general that versatility is a good thing to have. It is not a big burden on CA at all, if it was then we would perform poorly in test saves and indeed in saves where you are our manager.

 

When you play the game as another manager, when you come to play Leicester there should be a decent enough chance that Maddison plays wide, because he has played there before for us. If I reduce his ability to play on the left wing, other players would be selected ahead of him who in real life would not. If you run a save in the Premier League and the AI is playing Maddison on the left and Barnes in the middle, then that is a different debate to be had. But from the testing I've done that is not the case.

 

I'm not sure what your issue with 12 finishing is, when he couldn't finish to save his life at times last season. If you come to me and say 'he's not scoring enough goals in my saves', then that is something I can take a look at. But plucking numbers out and saying 'this is too low/too high' is not much use to me.

[Sly]

In fairness, Barnes has kicked in loss this season. 
 

I’d guess the stats are based on 19/20 @tomfmlcfc? Therefore he isn’t that far out realistically. 
 

 

[tomfmlcfc]

11 hours ago, Sly said:

In fairness, Barnes has kicked in loss this season. 
 

I’d guess the stats are based on 19/20 @tomfmlcfc? Therefore he isn’t that far out realistically. 
 

 

Yes, pretty much. The 21.0 update (i.e. the data for the release of the game in November) was virtually all done back in July when the season finished - we do the updates straight away at the end of the season so that our knowledge and opinions are fresh and not swayed by internationals or meaningless pre-season games.

 

There is some scope for change after the first few games of the season - for example I pushed for a late upgrade for Fofana, but that's more because the game was listing him for loan rather than because I was 100% confident he would continue to be as good as he has been.

 

The January updates (21.3) are a bit less open to big CA changes. Barnes had a slight boost this winter but nothing major. I don't like to make sweeping changes based off limited numbers of games.

[moore_94]

How are SI gonna work this into next years game then? 

[lildave3]

On 18/04/2021 at 23:37, moore_94 said:

How are SI gonna work this into next years game then? 

To be honest this is the only place it sounds like a good idea, but I’d rather just do it myself on the editor 😂

[moore_94]

5 minutes ago, lildave3 said:

To be honest this is the only place it sounds like a good idea, but I’d rather just do it myself on the editor 😂

To be honest I imagine it has already been done by a Youtuber 

[lildave3]

14 hours ago, moore_94 said:

To be honest I imagine it has already been done by a Youtuber 

I remember playing a database like it on FM08...

[AjcW]

Having Ricky Jade Jones on loan in league 2 feels like a cheat code  

[Danizen]

Taking a break from my Weymouth save to start a City one. I've noticed the option to ask for a new stadium is there from the very start of the game. 

 

What are the costs? Should I hold off for a bit or expand the stadium bit by bit?

[Dan LCFC]

Think I've just played through the most boringly easy season I've ever had. Started as Palermo in Serie C, came 2nd in my first season, predicted 7th but I still think I could've won the league. Anyway - there are three leagues of 20, and only 4 teams go up, so if you don't win one of the leagues you have a pretty hard task getting promoted. I blew the playoffs following two draws to Viterbese and lost on penalties, which was pretty poor.

 

Made my usual cluster of signings in the first summer though and we got 98 points, scored 98 goals, went unbeaten (and unbeaten for 49 standard league games). It was easy to the point of it being a bit boring - we finished 27 clear of 2nd. We then went into the 'Serie C super cup' where all three league winners play each other in a totally pointless exercise, first game I win 0-5  drew the other but we won that. I think we've got a good chance of going up again next season though, I'd have fancied my current side to push for it, I should be able to strengthen again this summer.

 

It helped my cause somewhat getting £1mil in a sell on for Dybala moving to Man City.

[shen]

19 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

Think I've just played through the most boringly easy season I've ever had. Started as Palermo in Serie C, came 2nd in my first season, predicted 7th but I still think I could've won the league. Anyway - there are three leagues of 20, and only 4 teams go up, so if you don't win one of the leagues you have a pretty hard task getting promoted. I blew the playoffs following two draws to Viterbese and lost on penalties, which was pretty poor.

 

Made my usual cluster of signings in the first summer though and we got 98 points, scored 98 goals, went unbeaten (and unbeaten for 49 standard league games). It was easy to the point of it being a bit boring - we finished 27 clear of 2nd. We then went into the 'Serie C super cup' where all three league winners play each other in a totally pointless exercise, first game I win 0-5  drew the other but we won that. I think we've got a good chance of going up again next season though, I'd have fancied my current side to push for it, I should be able to strengthen again this summer.

 

It helped my cause somewhat getting £1mil in a sell on for Dybala moving to Man City.

Yeah, I went through this in my most recent save with Legnago Salus. Cheesed it with cheap loans and an OP tactic, which only required minor tweaking from season to season. Also, long throws were still a thing in my Serie C and B seasons, which was not insignificant!

 

Serie B is very inconsistent - I've yet to see a side dominate it - so if you can string some good results together, you should be able to get promoted. As Palermo your reputation will allow you to get some excellent loans in as well

[moore_94]

21 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

Think I've just played through the most boringly easy season I've ever had. Started as Palermo in Serie C, came 2nd in my first season, predicted 7th but I still think I could've won the league. Anyway - there are three leagues of 20, and only 4 teams go up, so if you don't win one of the leagues you have a pretty hard task getting promoted. I blew the playoffs following two draws to Viterbese and lost on penalties, which was pretty poor.

 

Made my usual cluster of signings in the first summer though and we got 98 points, scored 98 goals, went unbeaten (and unbeaten for 49 standard league games). It was easy to the point of it being a bit boring - we finished 27 clear of 2nd. We then went into the 'Serie C super cup' where all three league winners play each other in a totally pointless exercise, first game I win 0-5  drew the other but we won that. I think we've got a good chance of going up again next season though, I'd have fancied my current side to push for it, I should be able to strengthen again this summer.

 

It helped my cause somewhat getting £1mil in a sell on for Dybala moving to Man City.

I am in my 6th season with Palermo and first couple of seasons in Serie C + B was really easy, with the Palermo rep you can easily sign players much better than the rest in the league, I signed Nabil Ghilas on a free and he scored I think 32 in 31 games 1st season, then 20+ 2nd season

 

My trajectory has been: 1st, 1st, 13th, 7th, 5th, currently 5th with about 10 league games gone

 

First few seasons in Serie A I signed pretty much just free players and put most of the money I had into youth players, starting to reap the rewards now!

 

Also just managed to get state of the art facilities and highest youth recruitment etc. possible

 

Now it is all just about turning them into title contenders and a wonderkid factory

Edited 29 April 2021 by moore_94

[Dan LCFC]

On 29/04/2021 at 08:32, shen said:

Yeah, I went through this in my most recent save with Legnago Salus. Cheesed it with cheap loans and an OP tactic, which only required minor tweaking from season to season. Also, long throws were still a thing in my Serie C and B seasons, which was not insignificant!

 

Serie B is very inconsistent - I've yet to see a side dominate it - so if you can string some good results together, you should be able to get promoted. As Palermo your reputation will allow you to get some excellent loans in as well

 

On 29/04/2021 at 10:16, moore_94 said:

I am in my 6th season with Palermo and first couple of seasons in Serie C + B was really easy, with the Palermo rep you can easily sign players much better than the rest in the league, I signed Nabil Ghilas on a free and he scored I think 32 in 31 games 1st season, then 20+ 2nd season

 

My trajectory has been: 1st, 1st, 13th, 7th, 5th, currently 5th with about 10 league games gone

 

First few seasons in Serie A I signed pretty much just free players and put most of the money I had into youth players, starting to reap the rewards now!

 

Also just managed to get state of the art facilities and highest youth recruitment etc. possible

 

Now it is all just about turning them into title contenders and a wonderkid factory

 

Loan abuse is too easy, and there are a lot of good ones, I got Ronaldo Camara, Tiago Gouveia and Lorenzo Colombo on loan who honestly, even a year ago would've all been upper end Serie B players, Colombo I think could've held his own in Serie A. That's adding to some of the current players in our squad who I think were also a bit too good for Serie C.

 

I felt we were quite imbalanced in the first season but it was one really shit run midseason that buried us above anything and Bari were pretty relentless themselves. I was a bit annoyed at myself though as we still came 2nd and that means just three rounds of play-offs, but we fell at the first hurdle to a team we really should've beaten. I was pretty confident I'd walk it next season though and so it proved. We broke just about every record going - most goals scored, most points, fewest losses, it was just easy.

 

Serie B will obviously be harder, and I've not gone full loan abuse this time, but I still think we'll push towards the top again. I've already won at Cremonese who are predicted a top half Serie B finish in the cup. It was beating two Serie B teams in the cup pretty convincingly last season where I knew we'd win the league.

 

I think the way you've done it @moore_94 is how I generally do it also. It's common sense transfer policy really. Italy is great as well because everyone seems to have such a big squad. There are so many steady players in Italy who cost very little.

 

Palermo is this years Hamburg save. When I'm done with these I'm gonna either do non-league English, or go and manage in somewhere like Bulgaria or Romania and try to take a team from an unfancied league far in Europe.

[Dan LCFC]

**** me. 8 wins from 8 in Serie B. Smallest wage bill in the league. I feel like this version is a little easy personally.

[moore_94]

23 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

**** me. 8 wins from 8 in Serie B. Smallest wage bill in the league. I feel like this version is a little easy personally.

FM is certainly very easy this year it seems, especially for experienced players

[Dan LCFC]

49 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

FM is certainly very easy this year it seems, especially for experienced players

I've thought it for most saves I've done on this one. I feel like climbing the ladder is a little simple.

[moore_94]

1 hour ago, Dan LCFC said:

I've thought it for most saves I've done on this one. I feel like climbing the ladder is a little simple.

I started a save with Coalville Town a couple of months ago, back to back promotions all the way until League 1, lost a bit of interest and started my Palermo save

 

Might have to start a save in a really obscure country with a crap national team, try and build up the league and the country etc.

[Dan LCFC]

49 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

I started a save with Coalville Town a couple of months ago, back to back promotions all the way until League 1, lost a bit of interest and started my Palermo save

 

Might have to start a save in a really obscure country with a crap national team, try and build up the league and the country etc.

I did FC Annecy in France and I won Ligue 1 after 12 seasons. Was a cracking save but at times during it I did play and think... this feels easier than it should. Name my first seasons up in Ligue 1 & Ligue 2. The title win itself was amazing, we won it in the last minute.

 

I then did Kasimpasa in Turkey. The rules changed in the 2nd season making it trickier but I expected that - I didn't even think to look if they would change again next season, and from the third season it turned out you had to have a home grown U23 in your team at all times, so somebody from the academy basically, who'd been there at least three years. It just totally sabotaged my team and I binned it when I realised. I can't be arsed when I've prepared a team for a scenario I'm not actually facing. A shame as we were already looking like potential title challengers.

 

Now I have this at Palermo. Suppose that first season I slightly bodged up but last season was laughable, and this one I've not felt under loads of threat either - though in fairness, I've looked on the squad comparison and ours is actually one of the better in the league so I suppose it's kind of realistic. I've nailed the recruitment.

 

It's fun but I've enjoyed saves more. I think next I'm going to go somewhere silly like Bulgaria.