Wesley Fofana: Signs For LCFC

[trabuch]

1 minute ago, nnickn said:

love that photo 6 postsup.

 

Any one else think Ndidi would have taken care of that? We gonna fly when he is back.

Good attitude. 

[Nod.E]

6 hours ago, NaijaFox said:

But that's the point. Either call is a calculated risk.

 

Each option holds the possibility of negative consequences, so in the heat of the moment the players elects the 'best' of two poor choices. Obviously Fofana saw closing down Anguissa, who had no one around him to impede his progress, as relatively more urgent (perhaps he does not share the apparent faith of some in Evans' foot speed ). In hindsight, it cost us but it is hypothetical to suggest the other option wouldn't have either.

Nah.

 

I've played a lot of football as a keeper and I'm fuming if my defender makes that choice. Gary Neville who knows much more about defending than me made the same point at half time.

 

He's committed himself and the end result is a 1v1 situation vs. our keeper. It's suicide.

 

If he chooses to drop off, maybe they score anyway. You're right when you say it's a team defensive effort and the situation is a dire one. But once in that position he has got to make the percentage play.

 

Surely you've seen enough of our own promising attacks break down to know that Anguissa with 40 yards to go with two defenders back does not necessarily mean a goal. Odds on yes, but it only takes one bad touch for a recovery run or one of Evans or Fofana to step in.

 

Evans and Praet are just as at fault here but knowing the game as I do, he categorically made a mistake in the heat of the moment. There is no question. I'm sure Fofana himself would agree.

[nnickn]

4 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

Nah.

 

I've played a lot of football as a keeper and I'm fuming if my defender makes that choice. Gary Neville who knows much more about defending than me made the same point at half time.

 

He's committed himself and the end result is a 1v1 situation vs. our keeper. It's suicide.

 

If he chooses to drop off, maybe they score anyway. You're right when you say it's a team defensive effort and the situation is a dire one. But once in that position he has got to make the percentage play.

 

Surely you've seen enough of our own promising attacks break down to know that Anguissa with 40 yards to go with two defenders back does not necessarily mean a goal. Odds on yes, but it only takes one bad touch for a recovery run or one of Evans or Fofana to step in.

 

Evans and Praet are just as at fault here but knowing the game as I do, he categorically made a mistake in the heat of the moment. There is no question. I'm sure Fofana himself would agree.

you are falling into the same trap as the pundits you are quoting.

 

Everything is easy after the event.

At this moment I could tell you 10 reasons why Fulham would beat us last night, 48 hours ago I could not have given you one.

[Nod.E]

1 minute ago, nnickn said:

you are falling into the same trap as the pundits you are quoting.

 

Everything is easy after the event.

At this moment I could tell you 10 reasons why Fulham would beat us last night, 48 hours ago I could not have given you one.

No. 

 

In that situation you always drop back. It's defending 101. No hindsight required.

[trabuch]

7 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

Nah.

 

I've played a lot of football as a keeper and I'm fuming if my defender makes that choice. Gary Neville who knows much more about defending than me made the same point at half time.

 

He's committed himself and the end result is a 1v1 situation vs. our keeper. It's suicide.

 

If he chooses to drop off, maybe they score anyway. You're right when you say it's a team defensive effort and the situation is a dire one. But once in that position he has got to make the percentage play.

 

Surely you've seen enough of our own promising attacks break down to know that Anguissa with 40 yards to go with two defenders back does not necessarily mean a goal. Odds on yes, but it only takes one bad touch for a recovery run or one of Evans or Fofana to step in.

 

Evans and Praet are just as at fault here but knowing the game as I do, he categorically made a mistake in the heat of the moment. There is no question. I'm sure Fofana himself would agree.

He's young and he's only just joined us. I pity the lad if Kasper has taken against him. He's a better footballer than Kasper will ever be. Seems like Kasper has more control over our club than he does over his own six yard area.

[nnickn]

@Nod.E but you are saying go back because they scored from it.

 

I could show you unlimited examples of doing what Wes done, and it resulted in a misplaced pass or successful tackle.

Edited 2 December 2020 by nnickn

[Nod.E]

1 minute ago, nnickn said:

but you are saying go back because they scored from it.

 

I could show you unlimited examples of doing what Wes done, and it resulted in a misplaced pass or successful tackle.

Our defending isn't bad enough to throw up unlimited examples of 3 vs 2 scenarios, thankfully. It's a relatively rare circumstance.

 

I'm not saying intercepting or aggressive defending should not be a thing, that would be ridiculous.

[Nod.E]

4 minutes ago, trabuch said:

He's young and he's only just joined us. I pity the lad if Kasper has taken against him. He's a better footballer than Kasper will ever be. Seems like Kasper has more control over our club than he does over his own six yard area.

What? I'm not Kasper, mate.

[trabuch]

Don't join Leicester if you are talented and young. Their fans will just rip your mistakes to pieces, no matter how well you have played. Even it was blatantly the managers mistake in the first place.

[trabuch]

1 minute ago, Nod.E said:

What? I'm not Kasper, mate.

No you are not.

 

[Nod.E]

1 minute ago, trabuch said:

Don't join Leicester if you are talented and young. Their fans will just rip your mistakes to pieces, no matter how well you have played. Even it was blatantly the managers mistake in the first place.

For crying out loud.

 

The lad is great, I think he's been brilliant for us.

 

I'm simply trying to correct people that can't see that this was a mistake.

 

Mistakes happen, it's just a mistake! He'll learn. 

[trabuch]

Just now, Nod.E said:

For crying out loud.

 

The lad is great, I think he's been brilliant for us.

 

I'm simply trying to correct people that can't see that this was a mistake.

 

Mistakes happen, it's just a mistake! He'll learn. 

My bad. It was a mistake by Fofana. I agree with that. But I do think he was put in a position where he shouldn't (as a youth) be in a position to make that mistake. And there are a lot of people older than him in this team that should shoulder some of the blame. 

[trabuch]

1 minute ago, trabuch said:

My bad. It was a mistake by Fofana. I agree with that. But I do think he was put in a position where he shouldn't (as a youth) be in a position to make that mistake. And there are a lot of people older than him in this team that should shoulder some of the blame. 

But Rodgers will happily blame youth. 

[NaijaFox]

1 hour ago, blaaklint said:

In this particular scenario, I'd rather Fofana back off and allow the shot from some distance than dive in and allow the one on one

It's about the same distance as Barkley was "allowed" to shoot.

But if we're choosing our own preferable scenarios, would rather the miscue of others not compel him to make either choice.

 

Edited 2 December 2020 by NaijaFox

[NaijaFox]

49 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

Nah.

 

I've played a lot of football as a keeper and I'm fuming if my defender makes that choice. Gary Neville who knows much more about defending than me made the same point at half time.

 

He's committed himself and the end result is a 1v1 situation vs. our keeper. It's suicide.

 

If he chooses to drop off, maybe they score anyway. You're right when you say it's a team defensive effort and the situation is a dire one. But once in that position he has got to make the percentage play.

 

Surely you've seen enough of our own promising attacks break down to know that Anguissa with 40 yards to go with two defenders back does not necessarily mean a goal. Odds on yes, but it only takes one bad touch for a recovery run or one of Evans or Fofana to step in.

 

Evans and Praet are just as at fault here but knowing the game as I do, he categorically made a mistake in the heat of the moment. There is no question. I'm sure Fofana himself would agree.

No need for the dissertation. 

 

I wasn't actually justifying his choice but merely noting that he had to make a Sophie's Choice. 

As someone else noted, either is a "calculated risk" but some seem to think there's no risk in the path not taken. Classic hindsight analysis.

[NaijaFox]

49 minutes ago, nnickn said:

you are falling into the same trap as the pundits you are quoting.

 

Everything is easy after the event.

At this moment I could tell you 10 reasons why Fulham would beat us last night, 48 hours ago I could not have given you one.

43 minutes ago, trabuch said:

He's young and he's only just joined us. I pity the lad if Kasper has taken against him. He's a better footballer than Kasper will ever be. Seems like Kasper has more control over our club than he does over his own six yard area.

43 minutes ago, nnickn said:

@Nod.E but you are saying go back because they scored from it.

 

I could show you unlimited examples of doing what Wes done, and it resulted in a misplaced pass or successful tackle.

These. 

 

 

[NaijaFox]

3 hours ago, Nod.E said:

No. 

 

In that situation you always drop back. It's defending 101. No hindsight required.

Might I add that even if Fofana drops back to cover Lookman, there's still the wide-open Fulham player on the right.

 

It was simply a TEAM clusterfvck, but if we're to count and apportion mistakes let's start from when we cheaply turned over possession to every missed tackle and every player out of position up to Evans who failed to step up with the line. If you were the GK on this one, you'd scream yourself hoarse. 

 

Edited 2 December 2020 by NaijaFox

[Lambert09]

26 minutes ago, NaijaFox said:

Might I add that even if Fofana drops back to cover Lookman, there's still the wide-open Fulham player on the right.

 

It was simply a TEAM clusterfvck, but if we're to count and apportion mistakes let's start from when we cheaply turned over possession to every missed tackle and every player out of position up to Evans who failed to step up with the line. If you were the GK on that one, you'd scream yourself hoarse. 

 

Honestly what the heck is Evans doing that far away from the rest of the line. So embarrassing 

[Nod.E]

6 hours ago, NaijaFox said:

It's about the same distance as Barkley was "allowed" to shoot.

But if we're choosing our own preferable scenarios, would rather the miscue of others not compel him to make either choice.

 

Yes, and Barkley scored a very good goal. You can't argue hindsight in one breath and then use a 25 yard long shot goal as evidence in the next

[Nod.E]

5 hours ago, NaijaFox said:

Might I add that even if Fofana drops back to cover Lookman, there's still the wide-open Fulham player on the right.

 

It was simply a TEAM clusterfvck, but if we're to count and apportion mistakes let's start from when we cheaply turned over possession to every missed tackle and every player out of position up to Evans who failed to step up with the line. If you were the GK on this one, you'd scream yourself hoarse. 

 

Yeah, not debating this. Evans has had a mare as well!

[NaijaFox]

8 hours ago, Nod.E said:

Yes, and Barkley scored a very good goal. You can't argue hindsight in one breath and then use a 25 yard long shot goal as evidence in the next

Why not? There’s NO contradiction there. 

 

Some are substantively using the hindsight of the Lookman goal to make it seem that there was only ONE possible negative outcome, whereas the hindsight of the Barkley goal is valid (and succinct) evidence of that there’s also possible negative consequences in dropping off. That’s not contradictory to my position of a Sophie’s Choice with each holding the possibility of a negative consequence.

 

Edited 2 December 2020 by NaijaFox

[st albans fox]

11 hours ago, Nod.E said:

Yeah, not debating this. Evans has had a mare as well!

Evans and fofana are dropping off to protect the two on two and hoping that someone gets back to the ball carrier - engaging the ball carrier will result in one of the two players ahead being open for the pass -  BUT wes suddenly decides to engage anguisa - wrong call - if only because it leaves evans isolated and playing lookman who becomes free, onside. It’s an error by little wes ....... impulsive ! 

[Nod.E]

3 hours ago, NaijaFox said:

Why not? There’s NO contradiction there. 

 

Some are substantively using the hindsight of the Lookman goal to make it seem that there was only ONE possible negative outcome, whereas the hindsight of the Barkley goal is valid (and succinct) evidence of that there’s also possible negative consequences in dropping off. That’s not contradictory to my position of a Sophie’s Choice with each holding the possibility of a negative consequence.

 

Weird point you're making there.

 

Anything is possible. There's a 'possible' negative outcome from directing a pass towards one of your own players, but it's still the correct choice to make.

 

Hell, there's a 'possible' negative outcome from exiting from the front door of my 4th floor flat. Maybe I'll get ran over, but it's a better option than jumping out the window.

 

The point is that the 'right' choice is the percentage choice. The risk associated with dropping off is less than the risk associated with diving in.

Edited 2 December 2020 by Nod.E

[NaijaFox]

33 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

Weird point you're making there.

 

Anything is possible. There's a 'possible' negative outcome from directing a pass towards one of your own players, but it's still the correct choice to make.

 

Hell, there's a 'possible' negative outcome from exiting from the front door of my 4th floor flat. Maybe I'll get ran over, but it's a better option than jumping out the window.

 

The point is that the 'right' choice is the percentage choice. The risk associated with dropping off is less than the risk associated with diving in.

No, it is not. Pretty certain that it's impossible for you to grow wings and take flight! 

Conversely, the point of the Barkley goal is to establish that negative consequences from dropping off is more than just a theoretical 'possibility'. 

 

PS: Btw, though I hesitate to indulge in your weird analogies, if your house is on fire and the exits blocked you might not think jumping out of the window such a bad idea rather than exiting from the flaming front door. The clusterfvck TEAM defending left Fofana with a metaphorical inferno. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NaijaFox]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

Evans and fofana are dropping off to protect the two on two and hoping that someone gets back to the ball carrier - engaging the ball carrier will result in one of the two players ahead being open for the pass -  BUT wes suddenly decides to engage anguisa - wrong call - if only because it leaves evans isolated and playing lookman who becomes free, onside. It’s an error by little wes ....... impulsive ! 

Nobody was "getting back to the ball carrier" (see the picture). Praet was already on his knees.  

The ball carrier did not start ahead of our players. Rather he outpaced them and was racing unimpeded towards the goal.

 

The options were either to close down Anguissa or to give him free reign to take the shot (a pass to either of his two free teammates were not his sole option), a la Barkley, and hope for the best. Yet again, without necessarily justifying Fofana's choice, neither was an optimal option, but if Evan steps up Lookman (and possibly the Fulham player wide right) would have been offsides. Frankly, one could say it was "impulsive" of Evans not to do so.