The Religion Thread

[Nick]

15 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

hang about - coming back for another go.... 'AND ANOTHER THING' (he says, reappearing in the doorway of the pub') - you lot act however you want, 'liberating' and 'enlightening' peoples, by sailing over and swanning in and killing the people and forcing them to build your churches. Religious imperialism! The CRUSADES! The glorious CRUSADES. You get a sniff of JIHAD which is equally repugnant and you're all up in arms. Aggressive spread of religion is bad. Seeking to subjugate people is bad. Any kind of fundamentalism and extremism must surely find its way to ending in tears (and deaths??).

 

And yet you lot swan off to Heaven and us people who act according to an informed MORAL compass (that's right! We are capable of deciding for ourselves how we act) instead of getting it from a holy (!?) book, (which by the way you selectively pick from and place stress on or ignore to suit your own biases), well, we have to go to hell because we didn't believe in a big bearded dude.

 

Worship whoever you want and live by whatever moral code you want, but respect other people and be considerate. All the most aloof people are religious. It isn't inherently 'bad' but it does give impressionable people absolute conviction in their idiocy and a level of aloofness that makes we want to go jehovah witness style and put leaflets about the big bang through Christian's doors. Speaking of which, why are we trying to combat global warming with science, why not just ask God? Why do we even run cars on petrol, or any fossil fuel or even batteries? Why can't God just make them go?

 

Don't even get me started on young people getting cancer of whatever. Actually, maybe I could do a post on that.

 

I know it's Christmas, but please stop drinking in the mornings.

 

[The People's Hero]

1 minute ago, Nick said:

 

I know it's Christmas, but please stop drinking in the mornings.

 

All tongue in cheek mate, and actually, I just finished my first beer, and it was a very very small beer - one of those little cans of birra moretti.

 

Got a zoom chat pencilled in later with a load of my friends who I've just remembered are spurs fans!

[Nick]

Just now, The People's Hero said:

All tongue in cheek mate, and actually, I just finished my first beer, and it was a very very small beer - one of those little cans of birra moretti.

 

Got a zoom chat pencilled in later with a load of my friends who I've just remembered are spurs fans!

God doesn't like Spurs fans - they have a poor attitude to parking too.

[The People's Hero]

Just now, Nick said:

God doesn't like Spurs fans - they have a poor attitude to parking too.

 

Had a wonderful idea. Next time I go and see my Mum I might park across the front doors to the church and see if its okay then. All people are equal of course!

[Nick]

1 minute ago, The People's Hero said:

 

Had a wonderful idea. Next time I go and see my Mum I might park across the front doors to the church and see if its okay then. All people are equal of course!

Look mate, I respect you but blocking the doors of a church trapping the christians inside is going too far. Do unto others my friend.

[The People's Hero]

Just now, Nick said:

Look mate, I respect you but blocking the doors of a church trapping the christians inside is going too far. Do unto others my friend.

You make a fair point.

 

Also the only mistake you made was respecting me before!

[Tomassi]

The sad thing about many Christians today is that they don't even speak about Jesus, the God-man they claim to follow, and instead just want to win a whole host of moral high ground arguments to prove God (which quite frankly pisses people off). Honestly, why would that attract people to follow Jesus?

 

Jesus is the most interesting remarkable divisive person in all of human history. He claimed to be God, told his followers to turn the other cheek if they get slapped, got the whip out on the religious leaders of the day and absolutely smashed them theologically, caused a scene everywhere He went, and then proved who He is by raising to life three days later. I believe every person should have a right to check out His claims for themselves through the Gospel accounts. The early Christians won over their enemies through love not sword, it's quite remarkable what happened in those first 3 centuries after Jesus. It's been quite disgusting in the 17 centuries since.

 

Maybe the proof people are looking for is in the followers of Jesus, more people 'read' Christians than the Bible, but when they are parking on double yellow lines and being rude to anyone who challenges them, I can't blame people for thinking like Ghandi who I believed once said - I like Jesus, but I don't like his followers. I was won over to Christianity through reading the gospel accounts of Jesus, but also by the patient love shown to me by the faithful Christians who reached out to me even when I wasn't always agreeing with them. It showed a realness to the faith.

 

If anyone genuinely is interested to know more about Jesus, or even tell me what your view is on Jesus, send us a message. I love a healthy discussion ❤️👍🏼 

[The People's Hero]

There's loads of the bible that Christians simply don't want anyone to read.

 

"Listen to the media Christians, listen to your local clergy who'll interpret it for you!!"

 

I mean its all a load of rubbish anyway, but modern day Christianity is aloofness, entitlement, one-up-manship, a big-networking club and selectively picking pieces of almost limitless resource (the bible) to back up whatever is the point of the day to put Christians above other people.

 

 

[Nick]

55 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

There's loads of the bible that Christians simply don't want anyone to read.

 

"Listen to the media Christians, listen to your local clergy who'll interpret it for you!!"

 

I mean its all a load of rubbish anyway, but modern day Christianity is aloofness, entitlement, one-up-manship, a big-networking club and selectively picking pieces of almost limitless resource (the bible) to back up whatever is the point of the day to put Christians above other people.

 

 

Stop drinking in the evenings please as well.

[Parafox]

7 hours ago, The People's Hero said:

hang about - coming back for another go.... 'AND ANOTHER THING' (he says, reappearing in the doorway of the pub') - you lot act however you want, 'liberating' and 'enlightening' peoples, by sailing over and swanning in and killing the people and forcing them to build your churches. Religious imperialism! The CRUSADES! The glorious CRUSADES. You get a sniff of JIHAD which is equally repugnant and you're all up in arms. Aggressive spread of religion is bad. Seeking to subjugate people is bad. Any kind of fundamentalism and extremism must surely find its way to ending in tears (and deaths??).

 

And yet you lot swan off to Heaven and us people who act according to an informed MORAL compass (that's right! We are capable of deciding for ourselves how we act) instead of getting it from a holy (!?) book, (which by the way you selectively pick from and place stress on or ignore to suit your own biases), well, we have to go to hell because we didn't believe in a big bearded dude.

 

Worship whoever you want and live by whatever moral code you want, but respect other people and be considerate. All the most aloof people are religious. It isn't inherently 'bad' but it does give impressionable people absolute conviction in their idiocy and a level of aloofness that makes we want to go jehovah witness style and put leaflets about the big bang through Christian's doors. Speaking of which, why are we trying to combat global warming with science, why not just ask God? Why do we even run cars on petrol, or any fossil fuel or even batteries? Why can't God just make them go?

 

Don't even get me started on young people getting cancer of whatever. Actually, maybe I could do a post on that.

I wonder what they think on the Spurs forum?

[Parafox]

1 hour ago, Tomassi said:

The sad thing about many Christians today is that they don't even speak about Jesus, the God-man they claim to follow, and instead just want to win a whole host of moral high ground arguments to prove God (which quite frankly pisses people off). Honestly, why would that attract people to follow Jesus?

 

Jesus is the most interesting remarkable divisive person in all of human history. He claimed to be God, told his followers to turn the other cheek if they get slapped, got the whip out on the religious leaders of the day and absolutely smashed them theologically, caused a scene everywhere He went, and then proved who He is by raising to life three days later. I believe every person should have a right to check out His claims for themselves through the Gospel accounts. The early Christians won over their enemies through love not sword, it's quite remarkable what happened in those first 3 centuries after Jesus. It's been quite disgusting in the 17 centuries since.

 

Maybe the proof people are looking for is in the followers of Jesus, more people 'read' Christians than the Bible, but when they are parking on double yellow lines and being rude to anyone who challenges them, I can't blame people for thinking like Ghandi who I believed once said - I like Jesus, but I don't like his followers. I was won over to Christianity through reading the gospel accounts of Jesus, but also by the patient love shown to me by the faithful Christians who reached out to me even when I wasn't always agreeing with them. It showed a realness to the faith.

 

If anyone genuinely is interested to know more about Jesus, or even tell me what your view is on Jesus, send us a message. I love a healthy discussion ❤️👍🏼 

I think he was claimed by his disciples and followers to be "the Son of God". Not the actual "God", as he doesn't exist. 

[Carl the Llama]

8 hours ago, The People's Hero said:

I didn't used to like you; but I've agreed with pretty much everything you've posted of late. One of us must have changed. Or Covid has addled our brains.

Maybe you've just learned your arse from your elbow  

[Benguin]

I’ve decided I’m actually going to bow out of this discussion for the following reasons:

 

- Two people have labelled me as a disrespectful individual for either refusing to accept other peoples opinions or for spouting my heighty morals. Whilst I’ve not managed to work out how I’ve done this, it seems likely I probably have as I can’t deny others experiences and my intention in this debate is not to disrespect people. So sincere apologies to @Faceclothand @The People's Hero

- After reading @Tomassipost, I definitely feel a bit convicted that I’m not approaching this discussion right and given Jesus is the centre of my belief, I would do better to focus on him in my engagements with others. 

I feel this thread should remain open as it’s an interesting discussion and I’m definitely willing to discuss Jesus and why I believe what I do. 

 

Edited 20 December 2020 by Benguin

[Pliskin]

Religion..... one woman’s lie about an affair that got way out of hand.........

[The People's Hero]

2 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

Maybe you've just learned your arse from your elbow  

And to think they all said I'd never amount to anything.

[Carl the Llama]

1 hour ago, Benguin said:

I’ve decided I’m actually going to bow out of this discussion for the following reasons:

 

- Two people have labelled me as a disrespectful individual for either refusing to accept other peoples opinions or for spouting my heighty morals. Whilst I’ve not managed to work out how I’ve done this, it seems likely I probably have as I can’t deny others experiences and my intention in this debate is not to disrespect people. So sincere apologies to @Faceclothand @The People's Hero

- After reading @Tomassipost, I definitely feel a bit convicted that I’m not approaching this discussion right and given Jesus is the centre of my belief, I would do better to focus on him in my engagements with others. 

I feel this thread should remain open as it’s an interesting discussion and I’m definitely willing to discuss Jesus and why I believe what I do. 

 

That's a shame, I was enjoying our chat.  Before you go I wanted to say that the overarching point I was hoping to make wasn't that your evidence for God is built on faulty logic, but that it was odd to me that you were so keen to insist on possessing objective reasoning in the first place when as a Christian it should be fine with you that your beliefs can't be tested in the court of logic, normal even. You're not meant to have objective proof of God's existence, the religion's power is built around the concept of faith in something so having objective evidence would ruin that.  I'm honestly a bit surprised that the faith argument wasn't your first fallback when the logical fallacy of using an unprovable to prove an unprovable was pointed out to you, it just seems like the obvious Christian response to what I was saying.  The reason I'm saying all this is because I feel you need to dig deeper into your relationship with your faith, at the moment you're trying to defend it with arguments that both make no logical sense and are contrary to the spirit of its teachings.  I'm not trying to turn you away from Christianity or anything, to each their own as far as I'm concerned, but I do think you should drop objective morals = God argument entirely and do a bit of soul searching to find something more healthy to build your faith on.

 

I hope none of that comes across as patronising, I know it's a big thing to tell a religious person but that's why I was trying to get there slowly and lay out a few core arguments first.

Edited 20 December 2020 by Carl the Llama

[Guest Fktf]

18 hours ago, Benguin said:

It’s not about what your moral codes are but how they can exist if we are nothing more than star dust. I’ve changed my mind slightly, I think the evidence of objective morality is intuitive and so I think an opponent of this would need to show absolute proof of this being contrary whilst being bound to their worldview that nothing transcends their own experience. Granted that’s circular but I think that’s because the idea that nothing is universally wrong is logically inconsistent.

You're still arguing from a point of your belief being 'correct'. What you've said here is what others would have to do to convince you of their own point of view. But that offers nothing in respect of support for your own stance. Perhaps both are equally 'wrong', or logically inconsistent as you nicely phrase it.

 

I see in a new post you're bowing out. Shame. I think this thread was (and the new one you started is) very interesting. 

[fuchsntf]

I mean really..!!!

Whats christmas got to do with Religion...

[urban.spaceman]

 

[Nalis]

Genuine non wumming question for those who believe - How has covid impacted your faith? Has your faith helped you over in this current climate over the last 10 months?