Cricket (None Leicestershire County Cricket Club)

[wardyfox86]

Firstly, excellent advert, yes.

 

But... it's still on Brook for me. Superb knock with Root, both set and the India attack completely out of ideas. You're an experienced test player and national team captain, you should be looking at the lack of experience after you. As we've seen before, back-to-back boundaries and he loses his head. You could feel it, once he did that, the tide would turn.

 

Didn't need to bat through but could have easily took another 20 off that total. Excellent player, but it was silly. That Bethel wickets on the other hand, I have no words for.

 

Superb drama though. I thought Gill had thrown it away not bringing the field in for that penultimate delivery. Turns out he knew exactly what he was doing 

[The boy Linacre]

For me they're a jolly boys club.  Its time to grow up.  Aussie's would see that thru to the win.  Root and Stokes have carried the rest this series.

3 attempts and they have never made the World Test final, so not even in the top 2 in the world.

It is amazingly exciting, there have been some amazing series the last 5 years, BUT they are indulged.

Batting - its always averages, ours are poor aside from Brook and Root, and Brook's will fall I think, the rest are around 40 or less, the best players are around 50 if not above 45.

Duckett has improved, but questions are always asked about Pope and Crawley, Brook saved his series figures with the ton yesterday.

Did Pope boss the 1st innings extra's fiasco?

India were the better side overall this series, we probably got a bit lucky.

BUT England are home flat track bullies, they beat most of the rubbish at home, 50/50 away and then have just drawn the last 2 series against the big boys at home & get battered away.

And sadly when the heat was on Smith with a few tests under his belt and even Bethell having played test cricket bottled it.  Nobody in the last 5 or 6 wanted to take ownership/responsibility to see it through. These guys have got to be told to keep the ball on the floor and don't fence outside off stump.

Grow Up lads.

Edited 4 August 2025 by The boy Linacre

[trabuch]

5 minutes ago, wardyfox86 said:

Firstly, excellent advert, yes.

 

But... it's still on Brook for me. Superb knock with Root, both set and the India attack completely out of ideas. You're an experienced test player and national team captain, you should be looking at the lack of experience after you. As we've seen before, back-to-back boundaries and he loses his head. You could feel it, once he did that, the tide would turn.

 

Didn't need to bat through but could have easily took another 20 off that total. Excellent player, but it was silly. That Bethel wickets on the other hand, I have no words for.

 

Superb drama though. I thought Gill had thrown it away not bringing the field in for that penultimate delivery. Turns out he knew exactly what he was doing 

I'm currently in a big (very good natured) argument with a friend about Brook. I just think it's the way he plays - he can't really switch that on or off (he might learn to). Root was set, and the anchor. He really should have seen us through. But watching Bethell lose his mind at the other end might have got to him - but I expect a lot more from someone as experienced as Root.

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, The boy Linacre said:

For me they're a jolly boys club.  Its time to grow up.  Aussie's would see that thru to the win.  Root and Stokes have carried the rest this series.

3 attempts and they have never made the World Test final, so not even in the top 2 in the world.

It is amazingly exciting, there have been some amazing series the last 5 years, BUT they are indulged.

Batting - its always averages, ours are poor aside from Brook and Root, and Brook's will fall I think, the rest are around 40 or less, the best players are around 50 if not above 45.

Duckett has improved, but questions are always asked about Pope and Crawley, Brook saved his series figures with the ton yesterday.

Did Pope boss the 1st innings extra's fiasco?

India were the better side overall this series, we probably got a bit lucky.

BUT England are home flat track bullies, they beat most of the rubbish at home, 50/50 away and then have just drawn the last 2 series against the big boys at home & get battered away.

And sadly when the heat was on Smith with a few tests under his belt and even Bethell having played test cricket bottled it.  Nobody in the last 5 or 6 wanted to take ownership/responsibility to see it through. These guys have got to be told to keep the ball on the floor and don't fence outside offside.

Grow Up lads.

I can see this point of view, but I can't a a legit way to make this team play better than it is now. People go on a lot about mentality, but given the last mentality the team had led to one win in 17 Tests with similar personnel, I'm not sure what the point is.

[st albans fox]

Had to record the mornings play so just finished 

how England contrived to lose that test match is nuts

 

it’s the way we play but jeez it’s frustrating 

 

 

[CL Fox]

We lose and everyone piles on.

 

Think people need to be realistic about where were at.

 

India - national sport, 1.5bn people

Australia- national sport, weather that helps.

 

We're basically propped up by a failing county system and dwindling resources. This team will be the best team we'll have for a very long time.

[wardyfox86]

5 minutes ago, trabuch said:

I'm currently in a big (very good natured) argument with a friend about Brook. I just think it's the way he plays - he can't really switch that on or off (he might learn to). Root was set, and the anchor. He really should have seen us through. But watching Bethell lose his mind at the other end might have got to him - but I expect a lot more from someone as experienced as Root.

Absolutely. Taking that away from Brook he probably doesn't score his hundred. But, you have to manage the moments better. Looking at Root, he's not really a "run a ball" player and with Brook in with him, he was probably happy at his pace as time wasn't a factor. Seeing Brook and then Bethel go, he's seen it enough times that he probably felt the need to pick the pace up as the wickets were bound to fall at the other end.

 

Made for a superb spectacle though, and a fair result in the end.

[leicsmac]

10 minutes ago, CL Fox said:

We lose and everyone piles on.

 

Think people need to be realistic about where were at.

 

India - national sport, 1.5bn people

Australia- national sport, weather that helps.

 

We're basically propped up by a failing county system and dwindling resources. This team will be the best team we'll have for a very long time.

This may be so, but 2011 when the England team was legit the best in the world isn't all that long ago. Is there really a reason they can't scale those heights again?

 

Edit: to give a more recent example, the Saffers have consistently punched way above what might be considered their weight class recently too. 

Edited 4 August 2025 by leicsmac

[martyn]

23 minutes ago, The boy Linacre said:

For me they're a jolly boys club.  Its time to grow up.  Aussie's would see that thru to the win.  Root and Stokes have carried the rest this series.

3 attempts and they have never made the World Test final, so not even in the top 2 in the world.

It is amazingly exciting, there have been some amazing series the last 5 years, BUT they are indulged.

Batting - its always averages, ours are poor aside from Brook and Root, and Brook's will fall I think, the rest are around 40 or less, the best players are around 50 if not above 45.

Duckett has improved, but questions are always asked about Pope and Crawley, Brook saved his series figures with the ton yesterday.

Did Pope boss the 1st innings extra's fiasco?

India were the better side overall this series, we probably got a bit lucky.

BUT England are home flat track bullies, they beat most of the rubbish at home, 50/50 away and then have just drawn the last 2 series against the big boys at home & get battered away.

And sadly when the heat was on Smith with a few tests under his belt and even Bethell having played test cricket bottled it.  Nobody in the last 5 or 6 wanted to take ownership/responsibility to see it through. These guys have got to be told to keep the ball on the floor and don't fence outside off stump.

Grow Up lads.

The point about averages doesn't take into account conditions.

 

Yes, English pitches have flattened out a bit over the years, but it's generally one of the tougher places to be able to consistently make big runs. Several world class players have averages in England below their means.

 

The issue with this side is less the batting as a unit (taking individuals out of the equation), and i'd be pretty confident asserting the "Bazball" approach has gained us better results than the alternative with this set of players, but more the lack of penetration in the bowling. A world class spinner would make a world of difference.

Edited 4 August 2025 by martyn

[Tommy Fresh]

14 minutes ago, CL Fox said:

We lose and everyone piles on.

 

Think people need to be realistic about where were at.

 

India - national sport, 1.5bn people

Australia- national sport, weather that helps.

 

We're basically propped up by a failing county system and dwindling resources. This team will be the best team we'll have for a very long time.

Imagine how good we'd be if we weren't padding the squad with vibes 

[CL Fox]

6 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

This may be so, but 2011 when the England team was legit the best in the world isn't all that long ago. Is there really a reason they can't scale those heights again?

 

Edit: to give a more recent example, the Saffers have consistently punched way above what might be considered their weight class recently too. 

South Africa haven't played anyone good realistically. They don't play 5 test series against Australia, India or England.

 

India - it's their national sport, 1.5bn people, the IPL, the India fronted BCCI, and everything that goes with that.

 

We've needed to sort out county cricket for years and we just haven't.

[CL Fox]

1 minute ago, Tommy Fresh said:

Imagine how good we'd be if we weren't padding the squad with vibes 

Like we did pre McCullum and Stokes?

[Tommy Fresh]

Just now, CL Fox said:

Like we did pre McCullum and Stokes?

Don't get your point? I'm saying we're good now, but we'd be a lot better if we picked players to support the core of the team, who'd actually warranted the call up

[RowlattsFox]

6 minutes ago, martyn said:

The point about averages doesn't take into account conditions.

 

Yes, English pitches have flattened out a bit over the years, but it's generally one of the tougher places to be able to consistently make big runs. Several world class players have averages in England below their means.

 

The issue with this side is less the batting as a unit (taking individuals out of the equation), and i'd be pretty confident asserting the "Bazball" approach has gained us better results than the alternative with this set of players, but more the lack of penetration in the bowling. A world class spinner would make a world of difference.

Agree with this in regards to the bowling,. It's great we can chase down big targets but wouldn't be great if we didn't have to.

However there is the caveat that we don't have bowler friendly pitches. 

Reliable spinner who can at least bat 8 would be perfect. 

 

[AKCJ]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

Ah yes, sorry, should be the last four attempts over seven years, you're right. 

 

 

I think that style is the only way that England have a chance in Oz anyway. Take it to that bowling attack or they take you apart no matter what. 

I think that Crawley and Duckett going after bowlers works but the further you go down the order the less it makes sense to me.

 

[CL Fox]

2 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

Don't get your point? I'm saying we're good now, but we'd be a lot better if we picked players to support the core of the team, who'd actually warranted the call up

Like who? 

[izzymuzzet]

42 minutes ago, Osavo said:

On reflection I think that is the best series of Test cricket I have ever watched. Discounting the 2005 Ashes which many will consider it to be, since I was only 6.

 

There is so much to be said for a 5 Test series, rather than squeezing 2x 3 Test series into a summer. It allows rivalries and storylines to develop so much more. Also gives each team so much longer to scope each other out, meaning you start to see weaknesses exposed by the end of the series. There's a reason England vs India, the Ashes and the BGT are considered the pinnacle and ultimate challenge for these lads.

 

I understand why neither side would go for it ($$$) but would love to see New Zealand/Pakistan/South Africa come over and play 5 Tests, with a white ball series against the same team tagged on, in a more traditional style cricketing summer. Far, far superior to next summer's schedule for example, with shortened Test series and then some random white ball tours wedged in. 

2005 holds a special place in history due to the wider context more than anything else really - last series on terrestrial tv so everyone was watching, England hadn't beaten the Aussies in such a long time, some great personalities (Flintoff, Pietersen, Warne) etc. 

 

This series has had drama almost every day and the result wasn't clear until the very last moment. In purely cricketing terms it's arguably been better than 05. 

[AKCJ]

11 minutes ago, martyn said:

The point about averages doesn't take into account conditions.

 

Yes, English pitches have flattened out a bit over the years, but it's generally one of the tougher places to be able to consistently make big runs. Several world class players have averages in England below their means.

 

The issue with this side is less the batting as a unit (taking individuals out of the equation), and i'd be pretty confident asserting the "Bazball" approach has gained us better results than the alternative with this set of players, but more the lack of penetration in the bowling. A world class spinner would make a world of difference.

I've always thought overhead conditions are more important in England than the pitch.

 

I think England comfortably chase that if it's a bright sunny morning.

 

Ball was doing nothing until the rain brought the clouds down last night and this morning. Not many batsmen can survive in those conditions.

[AKCJ]

Just now, izzymuzzet said:

2005 holds a special place in history due to the wider context more than anything else really - last series on terrestrial tv so everyone was watching, England hadn't beaten the Aussies in such a long time, some great personalities (Flintoff, Pietersen, Warne) etc. 

 

This series has had drama almost every day and the result wasn't clear until the very last moment. In purely cricketing terms it's arguably been better than 05. 

I would argue the opposite. The 2005 Ashes was played to a phenomenal standard whereas I think both sides in this series have played some pretty miserable stuff at times.

[izzymuzzet]

As disappointed as I am about the result this series has actually made me more confident for the Ashes. The top 7 are pretty much settled. You can argue about Crawley but him and Duckett clearly work as an opening partnership for what England are trying to do. Pope is a concern at 3 but Bethell hasn't done his cause any favours by barely playing any cricket this summer and then performing poorly this test. With Archer back we now have two (with Wood) genuine pace merchants which you need in Australia. Atkinson and Carse have proven themselves at this level. Stokes is back bowling consistently. The only real doubt is the spinner - really think Ahmed deserved a go at some point in this series given his form this season. If we can keep the key men fit it will be a close series I think. 

[leicsmac]

9 minutes ago, CL Fox said:

South Africa haven't played anyone good realistically. They don't play 5 test series against Australia, India or England.

 

India - it's their national sport, 1.5bn people, the IPL, the India fronted BCCI, and everything that goes with that.

 

We've needed to sort out county cricket for years and we just haven't.

The Saffers do often win those smaller series and matches, though. 

 

Do agree regarding the county system. 

 

5 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

I think that Crawley and Duckett going after bowlers works but the further you go down the order the less it makes sense to me.

 

It's pretty situation dependent IMO, but I wouldn't inhibit someone like Brook by getting him to go into his shell needlessly. 

 

1 minute ago, izzymuzzet said:

2005 holds a special place in history due to the wider context more than anything else really - last series on terrestrial tv so everyone was watching, England hadn't beaten the Aussies in such a long time, some great personalities (Flintoff, Pietersen, Warne) etc. 

 

This series has had drama almost every day and the result wasn't clear until the very last moment. In purely cricketing terms it's arguably been better than 05. 

And 2005 had the right result, that was very important IMO.

[izzymuzzet]

1 minute ago, AKCJ said:

I would argue the opposite. The 2005 Ashes was played to a phenomenal standard whereas I think both sides in this series have played some pretty miserable stuff at times.

Would agree that the two teams were better quality in 2005 (Aussies just on the decline from being arguably the greatest ever test team, England building up to become the best in the world a few years later), but in terms of the drama and entertainment this series is right up there and possibly surpasses it for me. Could well be recency bias on my part though of course. 

[Tommy Fresh]

Just now, CL Fox said:

Like who? 

We won't drop Crawley and I'm less arsed about him under McCullum because he clearly plays the role they want, but Emilio Gay should probably be under consideration, as should Tom Haines, Alex Lees has also probably done enough to be considered again as well.

 

Rehan is a better batting/spin option than Bethell.

 

We gave Sam Cook one game and seemingly binned him off because he wasn't great on debut.

 

[AKCJ]

4 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

It's pretty situation dependent IMO, but I wouldn't inhibit someone like Brook by getting him to go into his shell needlessly. 

No I agree.

 

But getting yourself out of match winning positions by playing ridiculous shots needs to be curtailed. He played a (mostly) sensible innings to get his hundred but then proceeded to just give his wicket away. Right when England had India by the knackers. 

[Bert]

1 hour ago, dmayne7 said:

As said below, we were in complete control and we gave it up. We turned that 373 into a very comfortable position and then certain players bottled it.

Especially at 301/4 with the best batsman in the world at the crease with 5 and a half wickets still in hand.