European Twins

[David Guiza]

I was watching the Inter v Atalanta game the other day and drawing comparisons between Atalanta and ourselves. The unfancied and unfashionable side who, until recently, have only one or two domestic cup triumphs to their name and have spent the most part of their history bouncing between the top two divisions. Their side has one or two standout players, but are generally more of a complete unit rather than just a couple of flash stars. 

 

I was then thinking if there are any other direct comparisons between European sides and, as my main knowledge of football outside of the UK is Italian based, I came up with the following:-

 

AS Roma and Arsenal - two undoubtedly huge sides from the capital who haven't really troubled domestically for a couple of decades. Home to some iconic players who once lit up the division and world football, but are very much in the process of a rebuild.

 

Parma and Leeds United - supposedly everyone's favourite second team at the moment. Huge success in the 90s and home to some incredible stars whom you could never work out why they were there; before financial implosion and a slow and painful comeback to the big time. I would however suggest that Parma are infinitely more likeable.  

 

Torino and Everton - huge clubs in their own time, but ultimately overshadowed by their bigger and better rivals of the same city. Seemingly always there but never seem to actually do anything of note. 

 

Sampdoria and Villa - big clubs who are known throughout Europe, but have done nothing for ages.

 

In conclusion, lockdown has left me with a lot of spare time to ponder nonsense. Anybody else got any?

[bovril]

Just now, David Guiza said:

I was watching the Inter v Atalanta game the other day and drawing comparisons between Atalanta and ourselves. The unfancied and unfashionable side who, until recently, have only one or two domestic cup triumphs to their name and have spent the most part of their history bouncing between the top two divisions. Their side has one or two standout players, but are generally more of a complete unit rather than just a couple of flash stars. 

 

I was then thinking if there are any other direct comparisons between European sides and, as my main knowledge of football outside of the UK is Italian based, I came up with the following:-

 

AS Roma and Arsenal - two undoubtedly huge sides from the capital who haven't really troubled domestically for a couple of decades. Home to some iconic players who once lit up the division and world football, but are very much in the process of a rebuild.

 

Parma and Leeds United - supposedly everyone's favourite second team at the moment. Huge success in the 90s and home to some incredible stars whom you could never work out why they were there; before financial implosion and a slow and painful comeback to the big time. I would however suggest that Parma are infinitely more likeable.  

 

Torino and Everton - huge clubs in their own time, but ultimately overshadowed by their bigger and better rivals of the same city. Seemingly always there but never seem to actually do anything of note. 

 

Sampdoria and Villa - big clubs who are known throughout Europe, but have done nothing for ages.

 

In conclusion, lockdown has left me with a lot of spare time to ponder nonsense. Anybody else got any?

Parma were maybe more like Blackburn, a smaller club for a long time who did well in the 90s after significant financial backing. I don't think they have the history of Leeds.

 

Maybe Bologna = Leeds. A big working class city with a club that has never regained their former glories. 

 

Udinese and Newcastle just for the stripes and playing in the north east.

[David Guiza]

5 minutes ago, bovril said:

Parma were maybe more like Blackburn, a smaller club for a long time who did well in the 90s after significant financial backing. I don't think they have the history of Leeds.

 

Maybe Bologna = Leeds. A big working class city with a club that has never regained their former glories. 

 

Udinese and Newcastle just for the stripes and playing in the north east.

Very true, I think Parma were relative obscurity before their 90s heydays so that's probably closer to the truth.

 

I did think Napoli and Liverpool in that they're both seemingly hated by anybody outside of that city and consider themselves Neapolitans/Scouse not Italian/English. 

[SemperEadem]

Lazio - Chelsea

[bovril]

Palermo - Portsmouth. Passionately supported club from a working class coastal city, haven't won much. Big rivalry with club down the coast. Financially imploded recently.

[David Guiza]

13 minutes ago, SemperEadem said:

Lazio - Chelsea

Yep! Dislikeable and propped up by a lot of cash when they were successful, but still pretty big sides in their own right. 

 

5 minutes ago, bovril said:

Palermo - Portsmouth. Passionately supported club from a working class coastal city, haven't won much. Big rivalry with club down the coast. Financially imploded recently.

Both surprisingly hostile given their locations too. The idea of a South Coast Mafia probably doesn't have the same gravitas though. 

[Nalis]

Hertha Berlin - West Ham

[Finnegan]

The problem with the Arsenal - Roma comparison is that it's easy to forget at the moment that Arsenal are the third most successful English team of all time. They've got a whopping thirteen league titles to their name and have won consistently in multiple eras, from pre war to now. 

 

Roma are an oddity because they tend to be viewed by English fans as a big club but they've really won near fvck all for league titles and often aren't anywhere near the race. They're a glamour club from the capital who have had some legendary players but they're not winners. 

 

I see them as more of a Spurs or West Ham if West Ham are having one of their better years. 

 

Arsenal and Milan would probably be a better comparison. Both third in their country's all time list, both at their pomp at the turn of the millennium, both fallen behind mostly due to a lack of ability to keep up financially and through some poor recruiting decisions. 

 

Milan are obviously experiencing a bit of an upturn recently but I do wonder how much of that is because Juve and Napoli are having wobbles more than because they're really excellent and Arsenal did something similar in 15/16 if course. 

 

 

[David Guiza]

1 hour ago, Nalis said:

Hertha Berlin - West Ham

Very true - I wonder if Hertha are viewed with the same derision as West Ham from opposing fans. Some of the followers of German Football on here may be able to answer that?

 

Think there's some comparisons between Hamburg and a few sides over here, like Forest, Sunderland, Leeds and co. Though Hamburg are much more successful.

 

21 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

The problem with the Arsenal - Roma comparison is that it's easy to forget at the moment that Arsenal are the third most successful English team of all time. They've got a whopping thirteen league titles to their name and have won consistently in multiple eras, from pre war to now. 

 

Roma are an oddity because they tend to be viewed by English fans as a big club but they've really won near fvck all for league titles and often aren't anywhere near the race. They're a glamour club from the capital who have had some legendary players but they're not winners. 

 

I see them as more of a Spurs or West Ham if West Ham are having one of their better years. 

 

Arsenal and Milan would probably be a better comparison. Both third in their country's all time list, both at their pomp at the turn of the millennium, both fallen behind mostly due to a lack of ability to keep up financially and through some poor recruiting decisions. 

 

Milan are obviously experiencing a bit of an upturn recently but I do wonder how much of that is because Juve and Napoli are having wobbles more than because they're really excellent and Arsenal did something similar in 15/16 if course. 

 

 

Yes, very true. I couldn't bring myself to compare a side I quite like to West Ham or Spurs, but that's a good comparison. Roma really should have won more, they're arguably 'bigger' than many of those who have won more in Italy. There's certainly something 'Spursy' about them too, in that they have fallen just short of the mark on more than one occasion and often blow up in big games, including ones against their biggest rivals.   

 

Think Arsenal/Milan is a fair comparison, although Arsenal have never been close to being the best side on the planet like Milan were in the late 80s/early 90s. I can only imagine their fans aren't quite as cringey as Arsenal either! Would quite like to see an Italian club go all the way in the Europa League as a throw back to the 90s. I think Roma and Milan are more than capable if they get through their current ties. 

[The People's Hero]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

The problem with the Arsenal - Roma comparison is that it's easy to forget at the moment that Arsenal are the third most successful English team of all time. They've got a whopping thirteen league titles to their name and have won consistently in multiple eras, from pre war to now. 

 

Roma are an oddity because they tend to be viewed by English fans as a big club but they've really won near fvck all for league titles and often aren't anywhere near the race. They're a glamour club from the capital who have had some legendary players but they're not winners. 

 

I see them as more of a Spurs or West Ham if West Ham are having one of their better years. 

 

Arsenal and Milan would probably be a better comparison. Both third in their country's all time list, both at their pomp at the turn of the millennium, both fallen behind mostly due to a lack of ability to keep up financially and through some poor recruiting decisions. 

 

Milan are obviously experiencing a bit of an upturn recently but I do wonder how much of that is because Juve and Napoli are having wobbles more than because they're really excellent and Arsenal did something similar in 15/16 if course. 

 

 

Agree; Arsenal very different to Roma. Very very different.

 

Arsenal and Milan is the comparison there.

 

Roma are more of a West Ham (providing you ignore West Ham winning the WC in '66 LOLOLOL); couldn't be Spurs because regrettably Spurs have won too much. Even Villa, who I almost ventured as a twin there, have an excellent history.

 

You're spot on that Roma are seen in the UK as a huge side who've always been successful. 

[Mike Oxlong]

 

Romanian I think 

[David Guiza]

I 

10 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

 

Romanian I think 

Never hit the De Boer heights 

 

 

[Staff]

21 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

 

Romanian I think 

They are feckin hideous 😂

[Mike Oxlong]

3 minutes ago, Staff said:

They are feckin hideous 😂

You’re just failing to see potential  

[Stuntman_Mike]

Leicester and Strasbourg. 

 

Both wear blue and white, play in the top tier and the cities are actually twinned.

[Staff]

25 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

You’re just failing to see potential  

All I can see is teeth. Feckin teeth everywhere

[Nalis]

1 hour ago, The People's Hero said:

Agree; Arsenal very different to Roma. Very very different.

 

Arsenal and Milan is the comparison there.

 

Roma are more of a West Ham (providing you ignore West Ham winning the WC in '66 LOLOLOL); couldn't be Spurs because regrettably Spurs have won too much. Even Villa, who I almost ventured as a twin there, have an excellent history.

 

You're spot on that Roma are seen in the UK as a huge side who've always been successful. 

I dont know, Roma have won the league 3 times, the Coppa Italia 9 times and have been semi regular in the champions league. Far closer to Spurs than West Ham.

 

You are right in that I was surprised they hadnt won more when I checked.

[Mike Oxlong]

32 minutes ago, Staff said:

All I can see is teeth. Feckin teeth everywhere

Teeth and fake tan 

 

Simply irresistible 

[David Guiza]

30 minutes ago, Nalis said:

I dont know, Roma have won the league 3 times, the Coppa Italia 9 times and have been semi regular in the champions league. Far closer to Spurs than West Ham.

 

You are right in that I was surprised they hadnt won more when I checked.

One could argue that Italy has seen greater dominance than England in terms of title winners. Since the 1929/30 season the top three winners have shared 72 titles between them with Juventus (36) Inter (18) Milan (18) compared with 50 from our equivalent in Liverpool (19) Man Utd (19) Arsenal (12) since 1888/89. But yes, Roma should and could have won more in any event.

 

 

[CosbehFox]

Newcastle and Hamburg for the last thirty years have similarities. Hamburg admittedly greater success in the 70s and 80s. Could probably make a larger case actually for Villa and Hamburg. 

 

Valencia & Arsenal too. Both are third most successful in their respective countries. Both runners-up in an European Cup. Both fcuked themselves financially with new stadium schemes. Both now mid-table but still have a pull for players. 

 

I know we've mentioned - Milan & Arsenal, you could say Milan & Manchester United too. 

 

Could argue Leicester & Sampdoria but Samp made sure their glory period had more silverware.

Edited 13 March 2021 by Cardiff_Fox

[CosbehFox]

On 12/03/2021 at 16:08, David Guiza said:

One could argue that Italy has seen greater dominance than England in terms of title winners. Since the 1929/30 season the top three winners have shared 72 titles between them with Juventus (36) Inter (18) Milan (18) compared with 50 from our equivalent in Liverpool (19) Man Utd (19) Arsenal (12) since 1888/89. But yes, Roma should and could have won more in any event.

 

 

Also think Serie A in the 1990s very much has the PL vibes of now. Italy had the seven sisters - Milan, Inter, Juve, Fiorentina, Roma, Lazio & Parma which isn't dis-similar to the the big six now 

[Finnegan]

11 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Samp made sure their glory period had more silverware.

 

We're only just getting started 

[BenTheFox]

I see Hamburg as being quite similar to Villa. Both of them are the biggest club in the second city of their respective countries, they both won the European cup in the early eighties, both have spent the majority of their existence in the top flight,  and until recently both were narrowly avoiding relegation before going down.