LCFC 0-2 Man City - Post-Match Thread

[sacreblueits442]

1 hour ago, knitro said:

Very late to this, but the dizzying stupidity of a particular poster who has a hardon for hating Amartey prompted this:

 

The first goal, play starts with De Bruyne passing to Mahrez and beating Evans, Fofana and Ndidi with the pass, with Castagne outside of the play:

 

 

Amartey has to move to the ball, coming across Aguero to step to Riyad and forces him to take a low-percentage shot which Kaspar parries straight back out (preferably caught or deflected out of play/to the corner), where it's picked up to the right of the box by a Man City Player:

 

 

You can see now that as Evans and Fofana have recovered, Amartey is now in the middle of the back 3, and Jesus/Mendy have more space than desired - subsequently the ball is crossed towards Jesus:

 

 

Because things are still scrambled, both Youri and Albrighton go for the ball, with Marc nicely getting a foot to it and preventing Jesus from connecting, but it does have the ball fall out to Mendy. Marc runs out to close him down and is done in by a nice cutback, which you see also catches Kaspar leaning the wrong way. 

 

 

By the time Evans moves to close Mendy down, the balls already off his foot and it's beaten Kaspar:

 

Is the criticism that Amartey doesn't block this shot? You literally do not understand this sport if you think Big Dan has fault here. 

GOAL 2:

 

World class pass takes out Evans, Fofana and Castagne again:

 

 

From here it's purely scrambling, with Ricardo and Amartey desperately trying to get behind the ball:

 

 

The ball is squared to Sterling:

 

 

Since he's a one-footed player, he looks to shoot with his preferred right - this allows our defenders to get back in front of the potential shot, which they both slide to block, taking themselves out of the play. It's a good decision by Sterling:

 

 

I suppose you'd prefer they make no effort to stop it a shot from seven yards away?

Anyhow, Sterling nearly bungles it, but is able to square back again:

 

 

From there with Kaspar out of position, its basically a matter of slotting into an empty net. When you have passes that dissect defenses this way removing 2 of 3 central defenders, the one remaining is going to have to scramble and chase. This is so fundamentally clear it is baffling to read otherwise.

....the first goal, just looking at it, Amartey could have dropped to the line, covering the left hand side of the goal, although it is not that easy to get your exact bearings with your back to goal!!!

  The second goal prior to the pass which breaks our defence, there were three players on the half turn, one facing our goal although running back from out wide and a defender with his back to goal. We were slow to close down the player picking up the pass and "dived in" in the box and over committed, allowing what looks like Sterling to roll the ball across. Poor defending all round.

[norwichfox]

aaadd city gerron?

[Col city fan]

22 hours ago, knitro said:

Very late to this, but the dizzying stupidity of a particular poster who has a hardon for hating Amartey prompted this:

 

The first goal, play starts with De Bruyne passing to Mahrez and beating Evans, Fofana and Ndidi with the pass, with Castagne outside of the play:

 

 

Amartey has to move to the ball, coming across Aguero to step to Riyad and forces him to take a low-percentage shot which Kaspar parries straight back out (preferably caught or deflected out of play/to the corner), where it's picked up to the right of the box by a Man City Player:

 

 

You can see now that as Evans and Fofana have recovered, Amartey is now in the middle of the back 3, and Jesus/Mendy have more space than desired - subsequently the ball is crossed towards Jesus:

 

 

Because things are still scrambled, both Youri and Albrighton go for the ball, with Marc nicely getting a foot to it and preventing Jesus from connecting, but it does have the ball fall out to Mendy. Marc runs out to close him down and is done in by a nice cutback, which you see also catches Kaspar leaning the wrong way. 

 

 

By the time Evans moves to close Mendy down, the balls already off his foot and it's beaten Kaspar:

 

Is the criticism that Amartey doesn't block this shot? You literally do not understand this sport if you think Big Dan has fault here. 

GOAL 2:

 

World class pass takes out Evans, Fofana and Castagne again:

 

 

From here it's purely scrambling, with Ricardo and Amartey desperately trying to get behind the ball:

 

 

The ball is squared to Sterling:

 

 

Since he's a one-footed player, he looks to shoot with his preferred right - this allows our defenders to get back in front of the potential shot, which they both slide to block, taking themselves out of the play. It's a good decision by Sterling:

 

 

I suppose you'd prefer they make no effort to stop it a shot from seven yards away?

Anyhow, Sterling nearly bungles it, but is able to square back again:

 

 

From there with Kaspar out of position, its basically a matter of slotting into an empty net. When you have passes that dissect defenses this way removing 2 of 3 central defenders, the one remaining is going to have to scramble and chase. This is so fundamentally clear it is baffling to read otherwise.

Firstly, I guess this is aimed at me but I won’t reply with any hostility. 
Secondly, this is all opinion isn’t it

Thirdly, it’s picture 2 I have issue with. If he’d stepped back in picture 1 to go with Aguero, you can clearly see in picture 2 that he’s in no mans land. He’s not followed Aguero at all (and if he had, the other defenders wouldn’t have had to follow Aguero and ‘could’ have stayed with Mendy) and Amartey finds himself in a position where he’s literally doing nothing. He doesn’t stop any cross (he’s too deep) and neither does he move further right to cover the goal.

Thus Mendy finds himself completely unmarked and has acres of time to simply pick his spot.

The while defence didn’t do their job, but Amartey’s positioning is miles off.

Personally I think that’s clear. Amartey is physically strong, an athlete and ok in the air (he’s not great in the air btw, just ok), but positionally is where I find him lacking. This was even more true when he was playing in midfield. Defensive reading of a situation is essential at this level. That’s my main gripe with Amartey.

Regarding my ‘hating’ of him, well I’m not 10 yrs old and I must have said on this very forum possibly 10 times, he seems a great bloke to have around off the pitch. But where I DO have issue with him is where his lack of awareness of what’s going on around him contributes to us conceding goals. 
 

Edited 7 April 2021 by Col city fan

[knitro]

1 hour ago, Col city fan said:

Firstly, I guess this is aimed at me but I won’t reply with any hostility. 
Secondly, this is all opinion isn’t it

Thirdly, it’s picture 2 I have issue with. If he’d stepped back in picture 1 to go with Aguero, you can clearly see in picture 2 that he’s in no mans land. He’s not followed Aguero at all (and if he had, the other defenders wouldn’t have had to follow Aguero and ‘could’ have stayed with Mendy) and Amartey finds himself in a position where he’s literally doing nothing. He doesn’t stop any cross (he’s too deep) and neither does he move further right to cover the goal.

Thus Mendy finds himself completely unmarked and has acres of time to simply pick his spot.

The while defence didn’t do their job, but Amartey’s positioning is miles off.

Personally I think that’s clear. Amartey is physically strong, an athlete and ok in the air (he’s not great in the air btw, just ok), but positionally is where I find him lacking. This was even more true when he was playing in midfield. Defensive reading of a situation is essential at this level. That’s my main gripe with Amartey.

Regarding my ‘hating’ of him, well I’m not 10 yrs old and I must have said on this very forum possibly 10 times, he seems a great bloke to have around off the pitch. But where I DO have issue with him is where his lack of awareness of what’s going on around him contributes to us conceding goals. 
 

This is having a conclusion and bending the evidence to fit it. 

 

He left Aguero because BOTH of the other central defenders were taken out by a pass and he had to close down the ball. That was the right decision, full stop. Where's the criticism from you of Evans or Fofana for getting undone like that? Where is the criticism from you of Kaspar for parrying a shot that was arguably catchable but definitely could've been placed better places than straight back out?  Both had far more to do with the goal being conceded. 

 

By the time the ball has been crossed, Evans and Fofana have partially recovered. I don't know how exactly the team practises this but in general you recover inside out and fill the positions accordingly. It's clear the way they recovered saw Amartey as the temporary middle of the three, with Wes and Evans filing in on either side of him. His positioning is reflective of this adhoc formation - basically all your criticisms should be towards Evans for not closing down Mendy faster, after Albrighton whiffs. The fact that you aren't betrays your 'hate' or myopic bias, call it what you'd like, but this is not my opinion, it's a self-evident reality. 

 

Edited 7 April 2021 by knitro

[Col city fan]

43 minutes ago, knitro said:

This is having a conclusion and bending the evidence to fit it. 

 

He left Aguero because BOTH of the other central defenders were taken out by a pass and he had to close down the ball. That was the right decision, full stop. Where's the criticism from you of Evans or Fofana for getting undone like that? Where is the criticism from you of Kaspar for parrying a shot that was arguably catchable but definitely could've been placed better places than straight back out?  Both had far more to do with the goal being conceded. 

 

By the time the ball has been crossed, Evans and Fofana have partially recovered. I don't know how exactly the team practises this but in general you recover inside out and fill the positions accordingly. It's clear the way they recovered saw Amartey as the temporary middle of the three, with Wes and Evans filing in on either side of him. His positioning is reflective of this adhoc formation - basically all your criticisms should be towards Evans for not closing down Mendy faster, after Albrighton whiffs. The fact that you aren't betrays your 'hate' or myopic bias, call it what you'd like, but this is not my opinion, it's a self-evident reality. 

 

That’s not how I see it but again, I’m not going to change your opinion. That was never my intention anyway, I was simply giving mine. Hopefully without any malice or accusations of ‘hate’, I’ll leave that to you.

👍

[gerblod]

On 06/04/2021 at 12:52, An Sionnach said:

Playing out from the back is a sure way to lose against them , Kasper should have booted it as far as he could and waited for a mistake . Rodgers always wants to win pretty . It never worked against Barca and it doesn't work against Man.City.

Evans was trying that ploy - although only a couple of times. The problem is is that Man City bring a reputation to every match and managers and players defer to them by hoping for the best but fearing the worst. Hoofing the ball is viewed as primitive (John Beck's Cambridge tactics), but it had (albeit limited) effectiveness with the right personnel. 

Managers at Premier level have to find strategies and tactics which will challenge the opposition. You have to go for something which will upset them and place them in uncomfortable territory. Then the mistakes arrive. And Vardy, in particular, will feed on mistakes like a hungry vulture. 

[deep blue]

28 minutes ago, gerblod said:

Evans was trying that ploy - although only a couple of times. The problem is is that Man City bring a reputation to every match and managers and players defer to them by hoping for the best but fearing the worst. Hoofing the ball is viewed as primitive (John Beck's Cambridge tactics), but it had (albeit limited) effectiveness with the right personnel. 

Managers at Premier level have to find strategies and tactics which will challenge the opposition. You have to go for something which will upset them and place them in uncomfortable territory. Then the mistakes arrive. And Vardy, in particular, will feed on mistakes like a hungry vulture. 

This is so true.  It's as if our management regarded this match as a "free hit"  i.e. it didn't matter if we lost, we expected to lose anyway. But every point in every match is important and should be fought for if we are aiming for Europe and to be considered a top team. 

 

We played with 3 forward-going players and a sparse midfield which had no way of feeding them given that they (and our defenders) were strangled by Man City's press.  It gave us no chance of winning.  Given that Brendan had been outgunned with regard to the formation he should have made adjustments at halftime at the latest.  Given the impossibility of our working the ball out of defence it  certainly would have been better to hoof it up to where our 3 attackers could have at least had an opportunity to fight for the ball. The biggest mystery to me was the unimvolvement of Praet who we were crying out for - maybe he was judged to be too knackered after the internationals.  It's a shame because he should have been on a high after his goal and assist in midweek.

 

Never mind, onwards and upwards.  I just hope we don't see another abject surrender like that again, and that we attack West Ham with boldness and intent.

Edited 9 April 2021 by deep blue

[Hoopla10]

I don't really get the need to criticize Amartey tbh. I think we all know what he's good at and what lets him down. I'd be surprised if anybody here feels he should be in our first team with everything being equal, with all players fit. But he does a job when we need somebody to fill in. I like his attitude and commitment for providing that role. Hopefully they work with him in training to understand his positioning. 

 

It's not much of a surprise we wanted to pass it around at the back. In terms of getting control of the game, getting our passing game going it makes sense. But also doesn't it show to a degree a sense of confidence? Because if you can build from the back through their press then you create space further up the pitch. I still believe if Vardy was in the same form as earlier in the season he bends his run and scores. That goal forces them to commit more and Vardy would get more chances. But ManC are still arguably the best team in Europe (maybe even the world) at the moment with a real hunger. This game isn't really important. How we respond on Sunday is. 

[messerschmitt]

On 07/04/2021 at 19:31, Col city fan said:

That’s not how I see it but again, I’m not going to change your opinion. That was never my intention anyway, I was simply giving mine. Hopefully without any malice or accusations of ‘hate’, I’ll leave that to you.

👍

@Col city fan seems to be getting the abuse that Iheanacho and Perez used to get before their upturn in form lol.

[HighPeakFox]

9 minutes ago, messerschmitt said:

@Col city fan seems to be getting the abuse that Iheanacho and Perez used to get before their upturn in form lol.

There is no adequate emoji that does this post justice...

[Col city fan]

58 minutes ago, messerschmitt said:

@Col city fan seems to be getting the abuse that Iheanacho and Perez used to get before their upturn in form lol.

It’s not my fault if people don’t read the posts properly! 

Edited 9 April 2021 by Col city fan

[Col city fan]

31 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

There is no adequate emoji that does this post justice...

[ARM1968]

On 06/04/2021 at 16:34, Corky said:

 

Ahh, the days when Harry Enfield used to be funny. Seems like so long ago. 

[gerblod]

5 hours ago, deep blue said:

This is so true.  It's as if our management regarded this match as a "free hit"  i.e. it didn't matter if we lost, we expected to lose anyway. But every point in every match is important and should be fought for if we are aiming for Europe and to be considered a top team. 

 

We played with 3 forward-going players and a sparse midfield which had no way of feeding them given that they (and our defenders) were strangled by Man City's press.  It gave us no chance of winning.  Given that Brendan had been outgunned with regard to the formation he should have made adjustments at halftime at the latest.  Given the impossibility of our working the ball out of defence it  certainly would have been better to hoof it up to where our 3 attackers could have at least had an opportunity to fight for the ball. The biggest mystery to me was the unimvolvement of Praet who we were crying out for - maybe he was judged to be too knackered after the internationals.  It's a shame because he should have been on a high after his goal and assist in midweek.

 

Never mind, onwards and upwards.  I just hope we don't see another abject surrender like that again, and that we attack West Ham with boldness and intent.

I don't think he wants to be timid, but those bad losses to Liverpool and Man City last season could have made him cautious (or over-cautious). It seems he's willing to accept a 'reasonable defeat' rather than risk a tonking - but a defeat is a defeat. In the Guardian last Monday, they didn't even bother to write the game up - just devoted a couple of sentences to virtually stating it was predictable and then discussing this week's CL prospects for the Mancs. If Man U can give them a game then we can surely give them a game. But they have to have a proactive approach from Rodgers - make adjustments when necessary and not when the clock dictates.