Jimmy Carr and that joke

[filbertway]

21 minutes ago, Line-X said:

I asked someone today what they thought of Jimmy Carr. The response was "a privileged, tax dodging former Shell employee...who is quite funny". I disagree. He's about as funny as the holocaust. Let's be honest here. If you made his joke on twitter and on this forum, if the mods didn't get to you first - then many of the people justifying it on this thread would likely be braying for a lifetime ban alongside the police investigation you'd be facing. You wouldn't be able to argue 'context', "education, it's just a 'joke', or the fact that you're a comic genius, or that people are too easily offended. 

 

The joke was aimed at his fans? As I suggested on the 'absolute cvnts of our time' thread ...(actually, can't be bothered to re-type it, so I'll bring it across) - it is the response from the audience is what I find particularly objectional. This wasn't simply an uncomfortable ripple of nervous laughter or conforming to peer pressure, this was an immediate eruption of s amusement, whistles and whoops - disproportionate, because contrary to the insistence of some, it wasn't even a good joke. The Carr "being clever" or "educating" exemption/get out of jail card is completely mislaid in this case, where the intent was shock value. He prefaced it by basically saying it’s a bad joke and a career ender, almost a disclaimer, the end justification appearing to be that there is a lack of education concerning other groups targeted by the Nazis, which are overlooked. Pertinent point or not, it was executed through the pejorative use of the term gypsy - and that alone is what actually got the laugh. Don't kid yourself - The audience wasn't nudging each other saying "see what Jimmy did there? - what a boy"?  - "he's subtly employing his inimitable, nuanced brand of shock comedy as a formidable tool by which to lever awareness of atrocities committed towards the Roma that wider society remains oblivious too" . Oh bollocks - they laughed at face value at a 'joke' which was simply that the murder of gypsies during the holocaust was a positive. 

 

There's 'black humour', and there's places you just don't go and this is one of them. Under the banner of 'his dark materials' of course the in house audience knew what to expect, That doesn't justify it though, and for Netflix to put out something that is not fit for broadcast it to an unsuspecting audience is questionable. Outrage sells - we know that. Jimmy knows that. 

 

As I said - I did actually laugh. Not at the joke, but at Carr's dreadful 'Monkhouse-esque' delivery and smug self-satisfied demeanour. I hate the cliché that someone has a face you want to punch...but to be fair, he does have a face you want to punch. If it is indeed a career ender, then good - **** off. A formulaic machine engineer comedian that read a book about how to be funny and failed. Perhaps he'll be martyred by Jim Davidson's crowd or he'll appropriate the market recently vacated by Roy Chubby Brown. Because as clever as he thinks his comedy is, the irony being, the current audience that this shallow 'risqué' brand of comedy attracts (I term it Boyle's Law), is really no different to a 1970s working men's club guffawing at Bernard Manning. The upshot is the same.  

I agree that I don't know why people are trying to make out it was intelligent, he just said something shocking to get a laugh and it worked. 

 

I laughed, I found it funny. I've no shame in that, I'm not gonna make out that it was because I found it an intelligent and educational joke. I found the whole special quite hit and miss, nothing offended me but some of the jokes just didn't do it for me. Much like Gervais these days, sometimes I find him funny and sometimes he's just repeating the same thing he's been saying for 20 years, sometimes not even bothering to change the wording.

 

Fair play to them both though, they're massive multi millionaires and have played the game well.

[FoxesDeb]

10 minutes ago, Line-X said:

I don't - doesn't stop me from being concerned about those that do though. 

The people who watch him know what to expect though

[Captain...]

36 minutes ago, Line-X said:

I asked someone today what they thought of Jimmy Carr. The response was "a privileged, tax dodging former Shell employee...who is quite funny". I disagree. He's about as funny as the holocaust. Let's be honest here. If you made his joke on twitter and on this forum, if the mods didn't get to you first - then many of the people justifying it on this thread would likely be braying for a lifetime ban alongside the police investigation you'd be facing. You wouldn't be able to argue 'context', "education, it's just a 'joke', or the fact that you're a comic genius, or that people are too easily offended. 

 

The joke was aimed at his fans? As I suggested on the 'absolute cvnts of our time' thread ...(actually, can't be bothered to re-type it, so I'll bring it across) - it is the response from the audience is what I find particularly objectional. This wasn't simply an uncomfortable ripple of nervous laughter or conforming to peer pressure, this was an immediate eruption of s amusement, whistles and whoops - disproportionate, because contrary to the insistence of some, it wasn't even a good joke. The Carr "being clever" or "educating" exemption/get out of jail card is completely mislaid in this case, where the intent was shock value. He prefaced it by basically saying it’s a bad joke and a career ender, almost a disclaimer, the end justification appearing to be that there is a lack of education concerning other groups targeted by the Nazis, which are overlooked. Pertinent point or not, it was executed through the pejorative use of the term gypsy - and that alone is what actually got the laugh. Don't kid yourself - The audience wasn't nudging each other saying "see what Jimmy did there? - what a boy"?  - "he's subtly employing his inimitable, nuanced brand of shock comedy as a formidable tool by which to lever awareness of atrocities committed towards the Roma that wider society remains oblivious too" . Oh bollocks - they laughed at face value at a 'joke' which was simply that the murder of gypsies during the holocaust was a positive. 

 

There's 'black humour', and there's places you just don't go and this is one of them. Under the banner of 'his dark materials' of course the in house audience knew what to expect, That doesn't justify it though, and for Netflix to put out something that is not fit for broadcast it to an unsuspecting audience is questionable. Outrage sells - we know that. Jimmy knows that. 

 

As I said - I did actually laugh. Not at the joke, but at Carr's dreadful 'Monkhouse-esque' delivery and smug self-satisfied demeanour. I hate the cliché that someone has a face you want to punch...but to be fair, he does have a face you want to punch. If it is indeed a career ender, then good - **** off. A formulaic machine engineer comedian that read a book about how to be funny and failed. Perhaps he'll be martyred by Jim Davidson's crowd or he'll appropriate the market recently vacated by Roy Chubby Brown. Because as clever as he thinks his comedy is, the irony being, the current audience that this shallow 'risqué' brand of comedy attracts (I term it Boyle's Law), is really no different to a 1970s working men's club guffawing at Bernard Manning. The upshot is the same.  

 

 

A well thought out and eloquent response, that is hard to disagree with.

 

The one thing I will counter is that the audience were not thinking of it at that level when they heard, neither were they thinking "finally someone's said it, dead gypsies are a positive" they were, in the main, thinking oh my god I can't believe he said that and laughing at the audacity of it, despite the warning, despite the knowledge that he makes offensive jokes and despite the set up including reference to the Holocaust (which all lead to the build up of nervous laughter) I don't think anyone expected him to go there. A huge part of comedy is subverting expectations. The analysis comes after the initial shock laugh, when you feel guilty for laughing at a joke that dark, and consider why you did. That initial laugh is nervous energy and shock.

 

As for Jimmy he knows there is enough nuance in the joke that people will take the time to defend any knee jerk reaction it. Who know his MO and there is enough wiggle room that he will be vilified and defended in equal measures to cause a huge social media storm and any attempts to cancel him will generate more publicity and subsequent income for him. He's not quite bullet proof but I don't think this will see him lose any work and probably have the opposite effect. The worst case scenario is that he becomes a poster boy for right wing bigots, but I don't think he's their type.

[Strokes]

29 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

Can we liken this to porn? Much of that is pretty offensive to women, but if I don't watch it I can't be offended. 

 

Christ there are plenty of misogynistic posts in the main forum which are also offensive to women, but I accept I'm in a massively male dominated environment here so I don't report them. 

 

If you don't want to be offended by a joke made by a comedian who is well known for being offensive, just don't watch him. 

 

There’s a good girl 👧 

[FoxesDeb]

Just now, Strokes said:

There’s a good girl 👧 

Where's the 'you're a massive twat but I love you anyway' reaction when you need it?!  

[SpacedX]

5 minutes ago, Captain... said:

The worst case scenario is that he becomes a poster boy for right wing bigots, but I don't think he's their type.

Thanks for the reply.

 

I did wonder that. It's possible his message that the Holocaust did not solely involve the massacre of six million European Jews could play into and be twisted by the hands of the anti-semites in that there is less awareness of the other victims. 

 

Right wing appeal? Well, he's a supercilious, arrogant, privileged tax dodger that worked for a leading global petrochemicals company, so he ticks many of the boxes. He's not a bigot though and he's soiely out to court controversy and renown as opposed to cultivating and harvesting hatred. But like I said, outrage sells - and from that there are always unintended consequences. I'm damn sure it raised a smile on Tommy Robinson's face and those of his brain dead supporters too. 

[SpacedX]

30 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

The people who watch him know what to expect though

They do - which makes it even the more perplexing from my perspective. One of my points was however, that the Netflix audience accustomed to a bit of inane banter on eight out of ten cats and a manufactured contrived laugh to match his manufactured contrived comedy, may have been a tad more unsuspecting. 

 

Like I said, it's their immediate reaction that I find disturbing. Carr's thinly veiled Frankie Boyle pretence is I agree, predictable and frankly...in his hands, a tired shallow formula.

[ClaphamFox]

1 hour ago, Line-X said:

I asked someone today what they thought of Jimmy Carr. The response was "a privileged, tax dodging former Shell employee...who is quite funny". I disagree. He's about as funny as the holocaust. Let's be honest here. If you made his joke on twitter and on this forum, if the mods didn't get to you first - then many of the people justifying it on this thread would likely be braying for a lifetime ban alongside the police investigation you'd be facing. You wouldn't be able to argue 'context', "education, it's just a 'joke', or the fact that you're a comic genius, or that people are too easily offended. 

 

The joke was aimed at his fans? As I suggested on the 'absolute cvnts of our time' thread ...(actually, can't be bothered to re-type it, so I'll bring it across) - it is the response from the audience is what I find particularly objectional. This wasn't simply an uncomfortable ripple of nervous laughter or conforming to peer pressure, this was an immediate eruption of s amusement, whistles and whoops - disproportionate, because contrary to the insistence of some, it wasn't even a good joke. The Carr "being clever" or "educating" exemption/get out of jail card is completely mislaid in this case, where the intent was shock value. He prefaced it by basically saying it’s a bad joke and a career ender, almost a disclaimer, the end justification appearing to be that there is a lack of education concerning other groups targeted by the Nazis, which are overlooked. Pertinent point or not, it was executed through the pejorative use of the term gypsy - and that alone is what actually got the laugh. Don't kid yourself - The audience wasn't nudging each other saying "see what Jimmy did there? - what a boy"?  - "he's subtly employing his inimitable, nuanced brand of shock comedy as a formidable tool by which to lever awareness of atrocities committed towards the Roma that wider society remains oblivious too" . Oh bollocks - they laughed at face value at a 'joke' which was simply that the murder of gypsies during the holocaust was a positive. 

 

There's 'black humour', and there's places you just don't go and this is one of them. Under the banner of 'his dark materials' of course the in house audience knew what to expect, That doesn't justify it though, and for Netflix to put out something that is not fit for broadcast it to an unsuspecting audience is questionable. Outrage sells - we know that. Jimmy knows that. 

 

As I said - I did actually laugh. Not at the joke, but at Carr's dreadful 'Monkhouse-esque' delivery and smug self-satisfied demeanour. I hate the cliché that someone has a face you want to punch...but to be fair, he does have a face you want to punch. If it is indeed a career ender, then good - **** off. A formulaic machine engineer comedian that read a book about how to be funny and failed. Perhaps he'll be martyred by Jim Davidson's crowd or he'll appropriate the market recently vacated by Roy Chubby Brown. Because as clever as he thinks his comedy is, the irony being, the current audience that this shallow 'risqué' brand of comedy attracts (I term it Boyle's Law), is really no different to a 1970s working men's club guffawing at Bernard Manning. The upshot is the same.  

 

 

But for a lot of people, the mere act of going to places where 'you just don't go' is inherently funny. If somebody says something that is so beyond the pale that you can't believe they've dared to go there, the shock of what they've done can make you laugh. It's a common - though obviously not universal - reaction. A lot of good comedy is transgressive - if it feels dangerous, it gives it an edge that intensifies the audience's reaction. The fact that there are lots of people who will be offended by the joke only strengthens it - if somebody says something that you know won't upset anybody, it obviously loses any power to shock.

 

I've been watching some of the Jerry Seinfeld series 'Comedians in cars getting coffee', in which he has a different guest comedian every week. When Ricky Gervais was on, they were talking about the kind of jokes that comedians make to each other in private - how they will literally joke about anything. Not a single topic is off-limits. They were saying how they'd never dare put a lot of those jokes into their stand-up shows. Personally I'd like to see a show where there are literally no limits on what can be joked about (with prior warnings for the audience, of course). But it wouldn't be possible because some people will always want to control what other people laugh at.

[Fox92]

2 hours ago, z-layrex said:

Its a joke? If you find certain comedians offensive don't watch them.

I don't watch Carr. I don't really find stand up comedians funny.

 

I'm a big comedy fan, mainly sitcoms, and I have a good laugh but holocaust jokes and killing a race of people ain't really my thing and I'm happy to admit that.

 

Edited 8 February 2022 by Fox92

[Strokes]

People need to understand that they don’t get to decide what is and what is not funny.

They can only decide what they find funny or not.

There are plenty of comedians I don’t find funny, and you know what, I don’t watch them. Get over yourselves.

[bovril]

1 hour ago, Strokes said:

People need to understand that they don’t get to decide what is and what is not funny.

They do, frequently. 

 

If I took the piss out of the wrong person's overweight girlfriend at a pub, he'd decide pretty swiftly it wasn't funny. And the rest of the pub would agree. Me saying 'it's an ironic comment on fatphobia!' wouldn't save me as I was dragged outside.

 

The law also frequently decides what is and isn't funny, in many countries.

 

Obviously Carr is a performer so it's a bit different. And I doubt he'll get beaten up by gangs of vengeful Roma. Definitely wouldn't be funny if he was 

[Strokes]

Just now, bovril said:

They do, frequently. 

 

If I took the piss out of the wrong person's overweight girlfriend at a pub, he'd decide pretty swiftly it wasn't funny. And the rest of the pub would agree. Me saying 'it's an ironic comment on fatphobia!' wouldn't save me as I was dragged outside.

 

The law also frequently decides what is and isn't funny, in many countries.

 

Obviously Carr is a performer so it's a bit different. And I doubt he'll get beaten up by gangs of vengeful Roma. Definitely wouldn't be funny if he was 

But they’d be wrong, it would be hilarious and you should most certainly do it.

[bovril]

1 minute ago, Strokes said:

But they’d be wrong, it would be hilarious and you should most certainly do it.

Any pubs you recommend with a receptive audience?

[Strokes]

3 minutes ago, bovril said:

Any pubs you recommend with a receptive audience?

The red cow in Leicester forest east, someone needs to tell my wife.

[kingkisnorbo]

I’m just watching the special for context because I wasn’t clued up. It’s not that I find him particularly offensive, he just isn’t funny. There’s virtually no intelligence in his comedy, if it’s you’re thing then fine but it just goes over my head. 

[Parafox]

3 hours ago, Line-X said:

I don't - doesn't stop me from being concerned about those that do though. 

Why? Surely that's an issue for them. Or are you going to to their house and and point out their failure and offer some counselling?

I might be "concerned" if it was someone in my family if I thought they were some kind of ....phobe and they were taking this sort of thing seriously and intended to act on their prejudices and go out attacking whoever they felt like and justified it by what Carr said and they laughed and thought, "yeah he's right".

Bollocks.

[Captain...]

39 minutes ago, bovril said:

They do, frequently. 

 

If I took the piss out of the wrong person's overweight girlfriend at a pub, he'd decide pretty swiftly it wasn't funny. And the rest of the pub would agree. Me saying 'it's an ironic comment on fatphobia!' wouldn't save me as I was dragged outside.

 

The law also frequently decides what is and isn't funny, in many countries.

 

Obviously Carr is a performer so it's a bit different. And I doubt he'll get beaten up by gangs of vengeful Roma. Definitely wouldn't be funny if he was 

Maybe not but I'd like to see him tell that joke to Tyson Fury 😁

[Parafox]

.

 

Edited 8 February 2022 by Parafox

[jammie82uk]

9 minutes ago, kingkisnorbo said:

he just isn’t funny. There’s virtually no intelligence in his comedy, if it’s you’re thing then fine but it just goes over my head.

That could said about any comedian 

[Sly]

5 minutes ago, Parafox said:

.

What’s this @Parafox? 

[Sly]

Comedians typically have a type of humour. Jimmy Carr is on the edge offensive and that’s his angle. Some will like it, laugh but not find it funny. 
 

I take it some people on here, haven’t yet been exposed to this: 
 

 

[Parafox]

Just now, Sly said:

What’s this @Parafox? 

I thought I'd deleted it as it previously caused responses that accused me of some kind of racism. Anyway FWIW, it's my response car after I attended a traveller site and it was smeared with red fence paint and excrement.

I guess I'll get posts telling me I will use any excuse to post this. So what? It happened and I was outraged and offended. And it happened to be travellers.

Doesn't mean I want them killed.

I was unsure of the point and how it would be recieved or if it was in context with this thread. 

 

[SpacedX]

2 hours ago, ClaphamFox said:

But for a lot of people, the mere act of going to places where 'you just don't go' is inherently funny. If somebody says something that is so beyond the pale that you can't believe they've dared to go there, the shock of what they've done can make you laugh. It's a common - though obviously not universal - reaction. A lot of good comedy is transgressive - if it feels dangerous, it gives it an edge that intensifies the audience's reaction. The fact that there are lots of people who will be offended by the joke only strengthens it - if somebody says something that you know won't upset anybody, it obviously loses any power to shock.

Absolutely - cheap laughs, and actually when you think about it, not particularly sophisticated. Easy win.

 

2 hours ago, ClaphamFox said:

I've been watching some of the Jerry Seinfeld series 'Comedians in cars getting coffee', in which he has a different guest comedian every week. When Ricky Gervais was on, they were talking about the kind of jokes that comedians make to each other in private - how they will literally joke about anything. Not a single topic is off-limits. They were saying how they'd never dare put a lot of those jokes into their stand-up shows. Personally I'd like to see a show where there are literally no limits on what can be joked about (with prior warnings for the audience, of course). But it wouldn't be possible because some people will always want to control what other people laugh at.

No taboos? Interesting. Presumably the 'N' word would be permissible too? So long as it's in private of course. You can't control what other people laugh at, you can't control what people put into their heads - but if you do transgress or enter that territory purely for renown and self-acclaim on a mainstream platform like Netflix, of course people will widely condemn it. I could make a rubbish stereotypical 'joke' and post on here about badly paved 'pikey' driveways, tea towels, fortune telling and sharpening knives...I'd likely get another ban, which I'd understand. Alternatively, I could post online about the extermination of gypsies being the sole positive of the holocaust and probably face criminal prosecution. But...but...your honour, context, 'education', 'comedy' '"you're just trying to control what other people laugh at" probably won't cut it in the court hearing. “We should be allowed to say and laugh at what we want!” Well the law has various things to say about that, but even if you genuinely believe this, it means that those who find the things you say vile and repugnant have every right to say that too - it works both ways.

 

With edgy comedy there’s always a line, after which you can go "too far" overstep”. It’s a risky genre, but the best comics know precisely where the line is, where to draw it - and can stroll up to it confidently, teasingly teeter on it, then withdraw by subverting any suggestion. And of course, not everyone will agree where this line is. Then there are those that defiantly see it as the the last line of defence of real comedy, stalwarts against the relentless, humourless, conformity-demanding politically correct thought police that govern modern society. Additionally, there's always going to be your opportunistic bandwagon jumping Jimmy Carrs. 

 

The hollow contention of “challenging social norms and preconceptions” and that crap, but only ever doing so in a comedy context...yeah, the one place where people are expected to do and say extreme or far-fetched things and not be punished for doing so. Challenging social conventions while relying wholly on those very conventions to do so. It’s like sticking it to ‘the man’ by graffitiing a wall that the council have specifically put aside for graffiti.

 

"Edgy comedy", valueless "shock value". There’s pretty much always a lower-status group targeted in your humour (“edgy” comedy almost invariably punches down), so you become higher-status just by default. Perhaps a supercilious c**k like Jimmy Carr is predisposed to it afterall? 

 

 

 

Edited 8 February 2022 by Line-X

[SpacedX]

20 minutes ago, Parafox said:

Why? Surely that's an issue for them.

It's wider than that. As I suggested, this plays into the hands and reinforces some pretty abhorrent 'issues'. 

[I am Rod Hull]

2 hours ago, Parafox said:

I thought I'd deleted it as it previously caused responses that accused me of some kind of racism. Anyway FWIW, it's my response car after I attended a traveller site and it was smeared with red fence paint and excrement.

I guess I'll get posts telling me I will use any excuse to post this. So what? It happened and I was outraged and offended. And it happened to be travellers.

Doesn't mean I want them killed.

I was unsure of the point and how it would be recieved or if it was in context with this thread.