How Do We Fit Ndidi and KDH in the Same Side Without Neutering Maddison?

[sacreblueits442]

1 hour ago, Guest454545 said:

Brendan's preferred formation from Swansea to Liverpool to us at Celtic is 4-2-3-1,  so a Hall-Ndidi-Maddison midfield triangle with two wingers and Vardy/ new striker, is probably something he is thinking about. 

..so 4-1-4-1 then...!!!

[sacreblueits442]

25 minutes ago, jim5000 said:

 

The only way to get Ndidi, Maddison, and KDH into midfield in their best positions is play a diamond. Which is far to narrow and would need two up top.

 

Unfortuantely for Madders, he's the only one that can play out of position and still provide something. You can't really shove Ndidi out on the left or KDH on the right.

 

It's a bit of a conundrum for Mr Rodgers, 4 good midfielders (assuming our lad Youri stays) but not the greatest fit together.....

....you do not always need to play a CDM, there are games where that extra bit of protection is not required!!!

[Guest454545]

4 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

..so 4-1-4-1 then...!!!

In attack. 

 

Yer man KDH definitely has the engine to get up and down the field to make it the 4-2-3-1 when you don't have the ball 

[Lambert09]

i didn’t think we did too badly with neither mendy or wilf playing tbh. I think kdh does enough of the gritty stuff to get by without a cdm. I wouldn’t be that concerned if wilf left. 

 

i feel we will always likely revert to a back 3 against the big boys. 

 

i’d like the player soumare was supposed to be to partner kdh in that role. Sangare does sound ideal as he has far more in his locker than just defensive prowess 

Edited 24 May 2022 by Lambert09

[FoxyLeon]

As I said over 12 months ago, Ndidi will shine once Tielemans is out of the side.

 

Tielemans's mobility and stamina is so poor, he has to sit next to Ndidi all game and it really reduces what Wilf is good at. I've been saying for over a year that we've often seen Ndidi play more advanced than Youri. Why? Because Tielemans can't press at all. He gets passed around so easily.

 

With Ndidi back in CDM on his own, we will look a hell of a lot better. 

 

Tielemans has neutered our midfield, not Ndidi. People go on about his 'creative passing'....But it's irrelevant when he abdicates responsibility all the time.

[gerblod]

8 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

Think we're absolutely on the same page here. It's always about fielding your best team for a particular game, not just trying to cram your supposed best players in ie England sticking Scholes on the left wing at one point 😅.

 

Form is a consideration also and it's unlikely that most players are at the top of their game all the while and is understandable, but  a manager should be able to detect when full commitment isn't present an act accordingly. 

 

Perhaps had Tielemans been benched a bit more, the indignity would have led to a little more effort the next time he'd played.

Suggestions have been made that both Perez and Tielemans have a clause in their contracts which stipulates the minimum number of games the Club are obliged to field them in.

I'm still not persuaded this is possible, never having seen a contract between a player and his/her club - but, given the idiocy rampant in transfer situations involving big name players, their agents and their suitors (like Mbappe, Neymar, Griezeman et al) it wouldn't astound me. 

Anyway, none of that is necessary if the manager chooses to consider that  you're fundamental to the team and Perez has finally found his way onto the bench. Seeing him put two away against Saints was both heartwarming and disappointing - when you see the skill he can produce when it suits him. 

The same applies to Youri Tielemans.

[gerblod]

On 23/05/2022 at 18:42, Sampson said:

We’re certainly not neutralising him. That would mean either killing him or making him play for neither side in a football match.

 

Neutering is the correct word here. I think everyone is well aware of the word’s other meaning with regards to making an animal unable to reproduce but words have more than one meaning.

 

 

I think a better choice of word is 'nullifying'. There's no hint of animal or human  abuse in using that . Although some managers might have felt neutering a just punishment for a crap performance.

[Shane]

@SampsonI think Brendan will keep Maddison on the wing. 

 

Problem with shoehorning players in, is that teams catch on quick. It won’t be long before Maddison’s being targeted with overloads, double man marking, etc when he’s on the wing.

 

In a central position he’s much harder to pick up. I think Maddison/KDH at their peak performance, like to take up similar spaces in the LCM/CAM role playing high up the pitch.

 

 

Edited 25 May 2022 by Shane

[MarriedaLeicesterGirl]

7 hours ago, Guest454545 said:

In attack. 

 

Yer man KDH definitely has the engine to get up and down the field to make it the 4-2-3-1 when you don't have the ball 

Brendan, during his best spell in 2019, seemed to prefer a 4-1-4-1. I am not sure if you can slot in KDH into the Youri role. In a way, although Ndidi is not like Kante and KDH is not like Drinkwater, I think a KDH and Ndidi combo bring the same elements as the Drinkwater-Kante combo, but just distributed differently.

[Guest454545]

4 minutes ago, MarriedaLeicesterGirl said:

Brendan, during his best spell in 2019, seemed to prefer a 4-1-4-1. I am not sure if you can slot in KDH into the Youri role. In a way, although Ndidi is not like Kante and KDH is not like Drinkwater, I think a KDH and Ndidi combo bring the same elements as the Drinkwater-Kante combo, but just distributed differently.

During the course of his whole career though, he's always moved towards 4-2-3-1 whether he could. One holding mid, one running mid, and one creative passer. There are exceptions based on personnel, but for the most part, he likes a 4-2-3-1. Swansea, Liverpool after Suarez left, and us with Dembele up front and Brown, McGregor/Bitton and Armstrong in the middle triangle. 

[Bryn]

We play three in midfield and Tielemans is leaving, KDH is either felt to be good enough to start in place of Tielemans (in reality Maddison probably plays deeper in that lineup) or we sign someone to replace Tielemans and KDH is benched.

[Bluearmyfox28]

On 23/05/2022 at 13:21, Dames said:

One of Rodgers biggest mistakes is his attempted transformation of Ndidi's role. He essentially has tried to change him into a Busquets type of midfielder when all Ndidi needs to do is cover the full backs when they go forward and try to win the ball back in any other situation. Any other involvement he should just be laying off the ball to another player.

 

A destroyer type Ndidi will walk into most teams in the league but at the minute he's being asked to do far too much above his ability and he needs his tactical advice simplifying so he is more effective. There is no way we should be writing him off or moving him on yet.

Couldn’t agree with this more.

 

Often I think we are a little bit too passive with our fullbacks too. Allow them to push on further. With Justin & Ricky P we have such good attacking outlets at full back.
 

Push them further forward and get Ndidi to sit in, will push teams further back and as a result create space in the middle for someone like Madders.

[Sampson]

7 hours ago, gerblod said:

I think a better choice of word is 'nullifying'. There's no hint of animal or human  abuse in using that . Although some managers might have felt neutering a just punishment for a crap performance.

Nah. Nullifying suggests cancelling out. You nullify an opposition player by marking them out the game or you nullify the opposition with your tactics. Don’t think nullify really works here unless KDH and Ndidi are directly in competition with Maddison, as it suggests KDH or Ndidi (or the person picking them) are actively trying to do something which makes Maddison worse.

 

Neuter is still a much better verb here. I wasn’t expecting people to debate the verb choice so much though. Neutering power is quite a common usage when discussing political power.

Edited 25 May 2022 by Sampson

[Wolfox]

Move Ndidi up front in place of Vardy and ask him shoot at any given opportunity…

[He aint bald]

We need an extra space to accomodate Madders as a No 10.

 

Most posters forgetting about the wierd and wonderful changes 5 subs will bring, even little old Leicester will be able to field 3 different formations in the same game.

 

Want goals in a game......  maybe start like this?

 

Just 2 in a 3 at the back formation. Need two athletic center backs and a quick keeper, Fofana and ?, Evans benched for 5 sub reshuffle.

The half full backs dont have to advance into the final third all game, just dominate around the halfway line and a tad more

 

 

                                                                                              Quick Keeper

                                                                  Fofana                                                          ?

 

                                  Ricardo                                                                                                                Justin       

                                                                                    NDIDI  (holds)      KDH (advances)

 

                                                         Lookman                                                                    Barnes    

                                                                                               

                                                                                                          Maddison

                                                                                         Vardy

 

 

    And refrain from FIFA or FM comments please, last football game I played was FOOTBALL MANAGER on the ZX Spectrum

 

Edited 25 May 2022 by He aint bald

[sacreblueits442]

1 hour ago, He aint bald said:

We need an extra space to accomodate Madders as a No 10.

 

Most posters forgetting about the wierd and wonderful changes 5 subs will bring, even little old Leicester will be able to field 3 different formations in the same game.

 

Want goals in a game......  maybe start like this?

 

Just 2 in a 3 at the back formation. Need two athletic center backs and a quick keeper, Fofana and ?, Evans benched for 5 sub reshuffle.

The half full backs dont have to advance into the final third all game, just dominate around the halfway line and a tad more

 

 

                                                                                              Quick Keeper

                                                                  Fofana                                                          ?

 

                                  Ricardo                                                                                                                Justin       

                                                                                    NDIDI  (holds)      KDH (advances)

 

                                                         Lookman                                                                    Barnes    

                                                                                               

                                                                                                          Maddison

                                                                                         Vardy

 

 

    And refrain from FIFA or FM comments please, last football game I played was FOOTBALL MANAGER on the ZX Spectrum

 

...it looks like a 4-4-1-1,  we surely are not looking to go in the new season with Lookman on the RW I hope!!!

Not a fan of the 5 subs rule, it smacks a bit of a Rugby Union setup, where the bench is where you look to win the game from, as it becomes a strategy that all clubs will seek to employ. The potential for water carriers are going to be increased.

 

[Chrysalis]

A squad shouldnt be just about playing your best rated players, its a squad game, and ideally you would have good players that dont play all the time, but are available in case you need to change system, or cover injuries (squad depth).

 

So maybe the answer is "we dont".

[Swalshed]

On 23/05/2022 at 13:21, Dames said:

One of Rodgers biggest mistakes is his attempted transformation of Ndidi's role. He essentially has tried to change him into a Busquets type of midfielder when all Ndidi needs to do is cover the full backs when they go forward and try to win the ball back in any other situation. Any other involvement he should just be laying off the ball to another player.

 

A destroyer type Ndidi will walk into most teams in the league but at the minute he's being asked to do far too much above his ability and he needs his tactical advice simplifying so he is more effective. There is no way we should be writing him off or moving him on yet.

Great post Dames, completely agree. 

Wilf should never get so high up the pitch where there's any danger at all of him shooting!!!

 

[Wizerud]

I think Rodgers will ask KDH to do what he's been asking Tielemans to do this year, so I see him as a direct replacement with Madders in the 10.