How Do We Fit Ndidi and KDH in the Same Side Without Neutering Maddison?

[Paninistickers]

If we wish to challenge for a European place next season, KDH will be nothing more than a peripheral player. 

 

He's likeable. He's Leicester. But he ain't anywhere near the level of a top class midfield. In fact, Praet is a better player in, more or less, the same role (albeit right hand side) 

[Sampson]

45 minutes ago, Duncan_K said:

Ndidi and Maddison are 25, KDH is 23. All of them can improve areas of their game that haven't been their best and learn to play slightly different roles than they have done previously. I see that individual improvement aspect as the most important thing for all of them. 

Sure, but if we try to play Ndidi get further forward or in a 2 rather than as an anchorman in a 3, then Rodgers gets slaughtered for trying to turn Ndidi into something he isn’t.

[Guest]

Yeah I like KDH but if he's one of our first choice midfielders next season then I'll be a little worried. Ndidi, Maddison + a new signing to replace Tielemans in the 4-1-4-1 of 19/20 would be my preference if we're going for three in the middle.

[RowlattsFox]

Question really should be how we get Ndidi, KDH, a youri replacement, Maddison and a new right winger into the team. It's been easy to include Maddison from the right as we have no other option there. The answer is probably rotating depending on who we are against. Maddison needs to be close to the striker, so I don't really like the 433 with him in midfield, however could may be ok if we get right midfielder signing right. 

 

 

[Dan]

I still think we could do worse than playing 4-3-1-2. Our strength isn't in our wide forwards and I feel like the ones we do have can play in those attacking roles anyway. They require similar skillsets anyway.

[brucey]

Neutralising. 

 

Let's not start neutering our players, no one will want to join  I don't think his missus would appreciate it either! 

[Sampson]

8 minutes ago, brucey said:

Neutralising. 

 

Let's not start neutering our players, no one will want to join  I don't think his missus would appreciate it either! 

We’re certainly not neutralising him. That would mean either killing him or making him play for neither side in a football match.

 

Neutering is the correct word here. I think everyone is well aware of the word’s other meaning with regards to making an animal unable to reproduce but words have more than one meaning.

 

 

Edited 23 May 2022 by Sampson

[brucey]

9 minutes ago, Sampson said:

We’re certainly not neutralising him. That would mean either killing him or making him play for neither side in a football match.

 

Neutering is the correct word here. I think everyone is well aware of the word’s other meaning with regards to making an animal unable to reproduce but words have more than one meaning.

Well I stand corrected. I've never heard the word used in this context.

[lcfc sheff]

We either sell ndidi and get a CDM that has the ball playing abilities Rodger’s is for some stupid reason trying to get out of ndidi or he admits defeat and let’s ndidi do what he’s good at. 
 

I wouldn’t be surprised if ndidi was sold 

[J. James]

51 minutes ago, Sampson said:

We’re certainly not neutralising him. That would mean either killing him or making him play for neither side in a football match.

 

Neutering is the correct word here. I think everyone is well aware of the word’s other meaning with regards to making an animal unable to reproduce but words have more than one meaning.

 

 

You tell 'em Sampo 🤣🤣

[J. James]

Remember KDH is a relative newcomer and may well have been tasked with a role which isn't his best (or only) strength.

Or he may well develop into a more youri-esque player given time if that is what Rodgers requires.

Talent will find a place in any system, l just hope Rodgers has the wit to realise it.

[Sharpe's Fox]

4 hours ago, Paninistickers said:

If we wish to challenge for a European place next season, KDH will be nothing more than a peripheral player. 

 

He's likeable. He's Leicester. But he ain't anywhere near the level of a top class midfield. In fact, Praet is a better player in, more or less, the same role (albeit right hand side) 

Not sure about the Praet thing but think you're broadly correct. KDH's ball retention, passing and close control is not top half premier league quality and we shouldn't let it pass because he runs-a-facking-'bout-abit.

[Jobyfox]

One issue we have is that Tielemans, even at his worst, is still the best passer of the ball from our midfield. At his best he has great intelligence and vision: he passes the ball into space rather than at the man. I like KDH as he works hard, harries and makes things happen. He sometimes, however, has a lack of quality with his first touch or in  his passing. Ndidi is the destroyer and breaks up play, but doesn't pass the ball well enough to be a great CDM.

 

To play the way Rodgers wants to play we have to have somebody who can pass the ball creatively. Only Tielemans can do that and, too often this season, he couldn't manage it either, which is why we've sometimes looked so ineffective. 

 

If YT goes we have to bring somebody in with creative vision. Personally, I also think playing both Ndidi and KDH limits our passing too much and ideally would only play one of them. Mendy might even be the better option when KDH starts (although he does only do safe passes he recycles the ball well and keeps it tidy). 

 

So I would say we don't start them in the same side. Instead we recruit someone who can play the creative role and has good passing ability. That person could probably then play alongside either Ndidi or KDH. Ndidi when we're likely to be overloaded in midfield and KDH when we have more of the ball and are playing on the front foot. 

[Tom12345]

6 hours ago, Sampson said:

Assuming we’ve signed some kind of Tielemans replacement. Interested in people’s thought…

KDH kind of came in when Ndidi got injured this season. We’ve played KDH, Mendy and Tielemans at times this season but it’s meant sticking Maddison out on the wing where he hasn’t been as good.

 

I really can’t see KDH and Ndidi doing particularly well in a midfield 2 in a 4-2-3-1 or 3-4-1-2, as neither has good enough vision or passing ability to play the Tielemans linking role. I guess you could again drop Maddison further back and force him to do some more of the dirty work but you’d be losing so much of his shooting ability and ability to play tight through balls in the final 3rd there.

 

Feel like we’re going to have some big issues next season when Ndidi comes back trying to fudge Ndidi and KDH in the same side. Just wondered on how people thought we’re going to try and get both in the side next season?

Sorry to say, but as much as I like Ndidi, Mendy is better in the way we like to play (from the back). The only reason why I think Ndidi would be better is if we play against teams of giants like Roma or Burnley and we don’t want the likes of Ricardo marking Abraham on corners. 

 

Have you forgotten about how poor we were in getting the ball out of our own half when Ndidi plays. We play with a handicap.

 

I strong suggest that Ndidi is not rushed back - he needs to feel the pressure of sitting on the bench and improve his passing and making available himself for a pass to his teammates.

 

If Mendy is moved on, then hopefully we get someone decent otherwise KDH can play that role but I think KDH is better s a box to box midfielder and roam around the pitch rather than playing a disciplined role that Mendy can play.

 

 

Edited 23 May 2022 by Tom12345

[Wilfcho]

15 hours ago, jim5000 said:

Ndidi - Defensive Midfielder, defend duty

KDH - Central midfielder, box to box role

Maddison - central midfielder, advanced playemaker attack role

 

For the FM players on here!


I can't see how people can't see this will be a better midfeild trio than madders, youri and wilf. why?, 

1. KDH will still link, while youri does this with his great passing, no one carries the ball like KDH in this team and maybe even in the league, he has run the most distance in the league since he started starting games right?, as a CM, you are either a passer or a carrier, KDH is a great carrier and okay passer

2. He is so much defensively better than youri, so so much, so so much, the amount of strain he'd relieve off Ndidi, i can't even begin to imagine, i can't see anything but this trio being massive, esp if Ndidi can step up his foward passing game just a bit, nothing too fancy, just be able to hit transition passes better.

[Dan]

On 23/05/2022 at 13:32, jim5000 said:

Ndidi - Defensive Midfielder, defend duty

KDH - Central midfielder, box to box role

Maddison - central midfielder, advanced playemaker attack role

 

For the FM players on here!

KDH mezalla. He can attack fairly wide too. I think it somewhat compensates for our lack of attacking from a left sided full back too.

 

Regarding Mendy, he's tidy enough at keeping the ball and whatnot but people can't seriously rate him over Ndidi. They're on different levels. Mendy gets overrated because he looks a little more comfortable on the ball but he actually doesn't make great passes.

[cruzFOX]

Well Rogers is finally going to have a decent pre-season to work on all the scenarios. He can have zero excuses too as 99% of the first team will be fit and ready to go. I’d like to see some of our academy starlets integrated too. 
 

does anyone have any snoop on who we will be playing against in the friendlies? Is the team going overseas?

[gerblod]

On 23/05/2022 at 14:25, volpeazzurro said:

I just hope Tielemans gets his move in the summer because the last thing we want is his languid lazy seeing out his contract performances affecting our midfield because rest assured, Rodgers will pick him.

There's an article in Monday's Guardian by Sean Ingle - mainly about Mbappe's snubbing Real and La Liga for another big package with the nailed on yearly winners of the French title. It also contains a para about uncommitted players seeing out their contracts to get a juicy signing on fee from their next club. Tielemans has been surreptitiously doing this while his apologists have cited small bones he's thrown to the crowd - rejoicing in a throw-in won or appearing with his family to rapturous reception. 

Wilf does his job in a quiet and workmanlike manner. His passes forward are short, neat and accurate. KDH is going to be, all being well, the guy who puts the yards in harrying opposition players and competing for the ball. Maddison is the artist. I see no reason not to employ all three week-in - week-out. Putting systems ahead of players' abilities suggest a manager lacking flexibility. The old Gerrard vs Lampard unsolved conundrum comes to mind - I'm pretty sure a great manager would have found a solution to that...and it was a greater problem than fitting Wilf, KDH and Madders on to the pitch. Tielemans is the fly in the ointment. Seems he's undroppable.

[It'sblueupnorth]

I wonder if with Tielemans going and assuming bridges haven’t been burnt with praet we could go with a midfield diamond. Ndidi at the base and kdh praet as number 8s with Maddison at the tip. I think there’s a lot of industry in that midfield to allow Maddison a free role to do what he does best centrally. I think is not being in Europe will hinder us in getting a tielemans replacement but that as a starting midfield would be good enough to challenge top 6 imo

[MarriedaLeicesterGirl]

16 minutes ago, gerblod said:

There's an article in Monday's Guardian by Sean Ingle - mainly about Mbappe's snubbing Real and La Liga for another big package with the nailed on yearly winners of the French title. It also contains a para about uncommitted players seeing out their contracts to get a juicy signing on fee from their next club. Tielemans has been surreptitiously doing this while his apologists have cited small bones he's thrown to the crowd - rejoicing in a throw-in won or appearing with his family to rapturous reception. 

Wilf does his job in a quiet and workmanlike manner. His passes forward are short, neat and accurate. KDH is going to be, all being well, the guy who puts the yards in harrying opposition players and competing for the ball. Maddison is the artist. I see no reason not to employ all three week-in - week-out. Putting systems ahead of players' abilities suggest a manager lacking flexibility. The old Gerrard vs Lampard unsolved conundrum comes to mind - I'm pretty sure a great manager would have found a solution to that...and it was a greater problem than fitting Wilf, KDH and Madders on to the pitch. Tielemans is the fly in the ointment. Seems he's undroppable.

I could see Tielemans possibly staying if he doesn't get a move to a Champions League club (although I doubt it). But I am not sure he would be undroppable if he didn't sign a new contract: I know Gray was more peripheral to the squad, but he was completely shut out from the team when he did the same thing. Youri has been putting in sub-par performances, and they will be looking for a replacement of some sort this summer. If he stays to see out his contract, I expect him to be riding the bench a bit. 

[sylofox]

Not sure why Madds has to have his bollox lopped off just so we can play KDH and Ndidi.

 

Seems a little unfair to me.

[volpeazzurro]

4 hours ago, gerblod said:

There's an article in Monday's Guardian by Sean Ingle - mainly about Mbappe's snubbing Real and La Liga for another big package with the nailed on yearly winners of the French title. It also contains a para about uncommitted players seeing out their contracts to get a juicy signing on fee from their next club. Tielemans has been surreptitiously doing this while his apologists have cited small bones he's thrown to the crowd - rejoicing in a throw-in won or appearing with his family to rapturous reception. 

Wilf does his job in a quiet and workmanlike manner. His passes forward are short, neat and accurate. KDH is going to be, all being well, the guy who puts the yards in harrying opposition players and competing for the ball. Maddison is the artist. I see no reason not to employ all three week-in - week-out. Putting systems ahead of players' abilities suggest a manager lacking flexibility. The old Gerrard vs Lampard unsolved conundrum comes to mind - I'm pretty sure a great manager would have found a solution to that...and it was a greater problem than fitting Wilf, KDH and Madders on to the pitch. Tielemans is the fly in the ointment. Seems he's undroppable.

Think we're absolutely on the same page here. It's always about fielding your best team for a particular game, not just trying to cram your supposed best players in ie England sticking Scholes on the left wing at one point 😅.

 

Form is a consideration also and it's unlikely that most players are at the top of their game all the while and is understandable, but  a manager should be able to detect when full commitment isn't present an act accordingly. 

 

Perhaps had Tielemans been benched a bit more, the indignity would have led to a little more effort the next time he'd played.

Edited 24 May 2022 by volpeazzurro

[Guest454545]

Brendan's preferred formation from Swansea to Liverpool to us at Celtic is 4-2-3-1,  so a Hall-Ndidi-Maddison midfield triangle with two wingers and Vardy/ new striker, is probably something he is thinking about. 

[Nod.E]

N'didi should have a lot to prove. By no means should he walk into the 11 on merit. Yes he's had injuries but he's been sub par for ages now.

[jim5000]

On 23/05/2022 at 13:53, StanSP said:

Not keen on Maddison being shifted out to the right as a go-to position to accommodate another midfielder.

 

His best games and influences come from the middle. I feel like being shifted out further to the wing doesn't get the best out of him. 

 

 

The only way to get Ndidi, Maddison, and KDH into midfield in their best positions is play a diamond. Which is far to narrow and would need two up top.

 

Unfortuantely for Madders, he's the only one that can play out of position and still provide something. You can't really shove Ndidi out on the left or KDH on the right.

 

It's a bit of a conundrum for Mr Rodgers, 4 good midfielders (assuming our lad Youri stays) but not the greatest fit together.....