How Do We Fit Ndidi and KDH in the Same Side Without Neutering Maddison?

[Sampson]

Assuming we’ve signed some kind of Tielemans replacement. Interested in people’s thought…

KDH kind of came in when Ndidi got injured this season. We’ve played KDH, Mendy and Tielemans at times this season but it’s meant sticking Maddison out on the wing where he hasn’t been as good.

 

I really can’t see KDH and Ndidi doing particularly well in a midfield 2 in a 4-2-3-1 or 3-4-1-2, as neither has good enough vision or passing ability to play the Tielemans linking role. I guess you could again drop Maddison further back and force him to do some more of the dirty work but you’d be losing so much of his shooting ability and ability to play tight through balls in the final 3rd there.

 

Feel like we’re going to have some big issues next season when Ndidi comes back trying to fudge Ndidi and KDH in the same side. Just wondered on how people thought we’re going to try and get both in the side next season?

[StanSP]

Ndidi plays where Mendy has been. I liked him as that 'shield' in front of the defence and as an anchor. Maddison has to stay central between midfield and attack. 

 

KDH still has potential to improve and master what he's good at but improve elsewhere. Don't see why he can't be the central midfielder that runs the game between Ndidi and Maddison. 

 

The team should be built around the likes of Maddison/Fofana and perhaps KDH too. 

[lcfcsnow]

Ndidi's injury and our European adventures have hopefully shown we don't always need a specialised DM, especially against teams near the bottom of the league. I don't believe Ndidi has ever had the skillset Rodgers wants in that position either, it may be time to move him and Kel on as neither have shown any form this season.

[Sampson]

6 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Ndidi plays where Mendy has been. I liked him as that 'shield' in front of the defence and as an anchor. Maddison has to stay central between midfield and attack. 

 

KDH still has potential to improve and master what he's good at but improve elsewhere. Don't see why he can't be the central midfielder that runs the game between Ndidi and Maddison. 

 

The team should be built around the likes of Maddison/Fofana and perhaps KDH too. 

But when Mendy has played, we’ve largely played 4-3-3 and stuck Maddison out on the wing, that was kind of my point. Maddison has still been great there at times, but definitely not as consistently as when played central.

 

I’m really not convinced KDH has anything like the vision to be a Tielemans-like player to still play the 4-2-3-1 with Ndidi and KDH as the deeper midfielders.

Edited 23 May 2022 by Sampson

[Merging Cultures]

It's a very narrow mid three.

 

Madders up top creating.

 

KDH in the middle receiving from Ndidi and feeding Madders.

 

Ndidi staying deep, killing attacks, releasing early to KDH who carries or passes to Madders.

 

But that means the full backs and wide front players need to do their part.

[Will1981]

Use Ndidi as a CB his passing is far too poor to play in midfield.

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, lcfcsnow said:

Ndidi's injury and our European adventures have hopefully shown we don't always need a specialised DM, especially against teams near the bottom of the league. I don't believe Ndidi has ever had the skillset Rodgers wants in that position either, it may be time to move him and Kel on as neither have shown any form this season.

You shouldn’t use wilf’s from this season to judge him. I don’t think he has been properly fit the whole campaign …..

 

hopefully he has a stand out season and then will be the club’s decision whether to cash in, given he will be ‘in his prime’ …..

[StanSP]

5 minutes ago, Sampson said:

But when Mendy has played, we’ve largely played 4-3-3 and stuck Maddison out on the wing, that was kind of my point. Maddison has still been great there at times, but definitely not as consistently as when played central.

 

I’m really not convinced KDH has anything like the vision to be a Tielemans-like player to still play the 4-2-3-1 with Ndidi and KDH as the deeper midfielders.

I wonder if we go back to a 4 1 4 1, where you have one full back joining attacks any given time. 

 

For that, you need a pretty damn good right winger though!

 

But what Ndidi's return will give us, is options. With only Mendy as an adequate DM option, we're limited. 

 

We could conceivably see various formations (hopefully no 3ATB options) that can get the best out of our players like when Rodgers first arrived. 

[Sampson]

2 minutes ago, StanSP said:

I wonder if we go back to a 4 1 4 1, where you have one full back joining attacks any given time. 

 

For that, you need a pretty damn good right winger though!

 

But what Ndidi's return will give us, is options. With only Mendy as an adequate DM option, we're limited. 

 

We could conceivably see various formations (hopefully no 3ATB options) that can get the best out of our players like when Rodgers first arrived. 

4-1-4-1 is essentially just a variation of the 4-3-3 though isn’t it? I feel like it has the same issues with bringing Maddison back too far and losing his great long shot and ability to play perfect balls to Vardy in the final 3rd.

 

I agree that it gives us options. It’s more that I keep seeing people saying we’ll be great when Ndidi, KDH and Maddison are all fit without really thinking how they all fit into the side together. I think it could be a struggle for us trying to get them all in the side together without heavily neutering one of them.

[Dames]

12 minutes ago, lcfcsnow said:

Ndidi's injury and our European adventures have hopefully shown we don't always need a specialised DM, especially against teams near the bottom of the league. I don't believe Ndidi has ever had the skillset Rodgers wants in that position either, it may be time to move him and Kel on as neither have shown any form this season.

One of Rodgers biggest mistakes is his attempted transformation of Ndidi's role. He essentially has tried to change him into a Busquets type of midfielder when all Ndidi needs to do is cover the full backs when they go forward and try to win the ball back in any other situation. Any other involvement he should just be laying off the ball to another player.

 

A destroyer type Ndidi will walk into most teams in the league but at the minute he's being asked to do far too much above his ability and he needs his tactical advice simplifying so he is more effective. There is no way we should be writing him off or moving him on yet.

[Sharpe's Fox]

If players come in to the side and make us play better and win games without these two then one will have to be dropped. No sentimentality. We shouldn't have an idea of which players must play and fit evreything else around them. Injuries and loss of form will happen.

 

Edited 23 May 2022 by Sharpe's Fox

[filbertway]

Should actually mean we can have Maddison and KDH attacking and Ndidi mopping up like a monster, like he used to do in the good old days. 

[jim5000]

Ndidi - Defensive Midfielder, defend duty

KDH - Central midfielder, box to box role

Maddison - central midfielder, advanced playemaker attack role

 

For the FM players on here!

[tsintskaro]

There is a high chance Ndidi and KDH duo will collapse soon enough and Maddison will be dragged way behind to get the ball and because of that out strikers will never be in any action

KDH looks like the weakest link here despite the ability of progressing ball through midfield 

 

[Stadt]

His stats are better from the right this season, he doesn't play as a conventional winger anyway either as he takes up central positions. I agree with the OP that KDH & Ndidi aren't good enough passers between them to start most of the time as the deepest 2 midfielders.

 

Alternating between 4231 and 433 is probably the best way to do it. Signing a midfielder that can play as 6 or an 8 helps us out here.

[Dahnsouff]

You don`t, you should never need such a midfield with a better defence.

[AKCJ]

We need to sign a Tielemans replacement if we want this.

 

Maddison has developed into a player that can add goals and assists from the right.

 

We played our best football under Brendan in 19/20 pre-lockdown. We were brilliant in that 4-1-4-1 with Ndidi as the destroyer, two 8s with Perez cutting inside from the right.

 

I see no reason as to why we can't go back to that.

 

Ndidi

Maddison KDH *** Barnes

Vardy

 

*** Has to be the Tielemans replacement. In the past we were linked with Naby Keita, Houssem Aouar and Christian Eriksen. All would be solid options.

 

 

[StanSP]

Not keen on Maddison being shifted out to the right as a go-to position to accommodate another midfielder.

 

His best games and influences come from the middle. I feel like being shifted out further to the wing doesn't get the best out of him. 

 

[Happy Fox]

4-2-3-1?

 

[volpeazzurro]

58 minutes ago, Sampson said:

But when Mendy has played, we’ve largely played 4-3-3 and stuck Maddison out on the wing, that was kind of my point. Maddison has still been great there at times, but definitely not as consistently as when played central.

 

I’m really not convinced KDH has anything like the vision to be a Tielemans-like player to still play the 4-2-3-1 with Ndidi and KDH as the deeper midfielders.

Tielemans has gone missing for most of the season so he shouldn't really be a consideration. In fairness, if Ndidi had been fit I would have benched Tielemans anyway, any decent passes or foresight recently has been coming through Maddison. 

 

I just hope Tielemans gets his move in the summer because the last thing we want is his languid lazy seeing out his contract performances affecting our midfield because rest assured, Rodgers will pick him.

 

A 433 doesn't have to be a set in stone formation, different teams employ it in different ways. Just for arguments sake we could currently have had:

 

Schmeichel 

Ric Fofana Evans JJ 

  Ndidi Maddison KDH 

  Daka Vardy Barnes 

 

The midfield three allows Ndidi and KDH to protect the back 4 with KDH having more of a licence to roam whilst Ndidi stays and Maddison just behind the front 3.

 

With Iheanacho and Castagne also available to fit in/start, I think that's pretty strong, pacy and worrying for the opposition. But ... it is meant to be an attacking fast pace one/two touch formation against all but the top teams, not this tippy tappy possession and safety at all cost bollocks we've been having served up to us. We have some good players who are being wasted and have subsequently regressed under this regime. Add a genuine right sided attacking forward and another midfielder for flexibility and slightly different tactics and the future is bright. 

 

 

[CosbehFox]

1 hour ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

If players come in to the side and make us play better and win games without these two then one will have to be dropped. No sentimentality. We shouldn't have an idea of which players must play and fit evreything else around them. Injuries and loss of form will happen.

 

Agreed. 

 

We face a decision with KDH soon cos I can't see him retaining his spot if we get a good quality CM in. 

[sacreblueits442]

...4-4-2 diamond works just as well!!!

  We just need another #8 alongside KDH for it to be our go to plan.

 KDH is portrayed as an attacking box to box player, where I would say deep down he is more a creator. His transformation on loan has served its purpose  but he was very much a schemer in the U23s  and I would believe that is how he wishes to play. He has good awareness and passing skills, he seems to have put much of those to one side at the moment, but if a Soumare like player came in alongside of him, he could look to his more creative side, and we get to see the real player that he is.

[Duncan_K]

Ndidi and Maddison are 25, KDH is 23. All of them can improve areas of their game that haven't been their best and learn to play slightly different roles than they have done previously. I see that individual improvement aspect as the most important thing for all of them. 

[gurru991]

2 hours ago, lcfcsnow said:

Ndidi's injury and our European adventures have hopefully shown we don't always need a specialised DM, especially against teams near the bottom of the league. I don't believe Ndidi has ever had the skillset Rodgers wants in that position either, it may be time to move him and Kel on as neither have shown any form this season.

I agree. Ndidi's value should be fairly high & I just see his passing ever improving.

Kel is a difficult one as I don't feel he has had a really decent opportunity. Having said that It wouldn't bother me too much to see them moved.

[FosseSpark]

for me

 

Iversen

Castagne Fofana Evans Justin

Ndidi KDH

Berardi Maddison Barnes/Madueke

Vardy

 

Schmeichel, Barnes/Madueke, Lookman and Ricardo would be constantly pushing.

Daka, Albrighton, Thomas, Amartey would be definitely on the bench 

 

Soyuncu and Tielemans give us c£50 you'd imagine to go into market for Berardi and Madueke

If they are then feeling punchy budget wise then you'd go for De Ketalaere and / or this  holding midfielder Sangare they are looking at which would take us into positive ££ investment.

You'd hope we'd be in for one of Tarkowski, Cornet, McNeil, Dennis or Sarr if there is fire sale value to be had.

 

the fact that 3 out of Choudhury, Perez, Mendy, Praet and potentially Iheanacho are on the way out makes it a complicated season. if we move any of them on then we could see 5 quality players come in. If we don't then it could be part of a 2 or 3 window transition.