Air source heat pump diary

[Dahnsouff]

Thread about air source heat pump experience

 

The following new stuff was installed

1. Daikin Heat Pump  (outside wall of kitchen)
2. Daikin Altherma 3 (hybrid boiler/inside unit) (inside kitchen linked to #1)
3. Daikin pressurised cylinder in cupboard (linked #2)

These all use 40mm not 22mm piping

 

This is what is often called a high temperature ASHP, as rather than just relying on the heat pump to raise the temperature, this has what is basically an electric boiler in the internal unit, and this lets you reach higher temperatures than you usually would. There seem to be more common now.

 

Cost wise it was 15k BUT

• We get VAT back on all components (3k approx)
• We get 5k back from BUS when it kicks in late May

 

But

• As part of the survey for the work, it was found that some of our radiators were crap and lacked the output ideal for an ASHP
  • This sounds bad, but even in our 1930s semi we only had to replace one radiator
     

The BUS requires you has criteria such as good insulation, something we are having a (long overdue0 new EPC created to prove (The EPC was included in the cost, new insulation or new radiators are not)

 

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/environmental-and-social-schemes/boiler-upgrade-scheme-bus

 

Edited 24 May 2022 by Dahnsouff

[Dahnsouff]

Heat Pump Report 10/05

• 1% less electricity usage than last week, bit odd but maybe weather related
• Obviously no gas usage

Summary

• Way too early to draw any conclusions
• Weather is quite warm, so this helps anyway
• Still getting used to the system,  but we are definitely not cold

Edited 24 May 2022 by Dahnsouff

[weller54]

Did you have this retrofitted and what upheaval did the install cause?

[Zear0]

Great stuff to share your experiences with these. Keep it up. 

[Dahnsouff]

Heat pump report 24/05/2022

 

Did not do one last week due to family issues, so my bad

• Tap in the tank was faulty, that’s been replaced and no more outages now. Nothing to do with the heat pump installation, was just a faulty tap
  • This caused the system to stop and complain about water flow, then reset and try again, eventually stopping and asking for help23RD MAY

Report

• 14.1kWh of electricity vs 19.0kWh this time last week
• 0.0m³ of gas
• Still difficult to say as the weather is fairly warm
• System is functioning well after the tap issue
• Pleased so far, making savings on electricity alongside no gas cost

[Dahnsouff]

10 minutes ago, weller54 said:

Did you have this retrofitted and what upheaval did the install cause?

Yes, we are in a 1930s semi, so definitely retro fitted over an existing gas boiler

 

It was an upheaval because we had tanks and extra unneeded piping remove too, but the whole process took 4 days, and on the 5th day, the new system was commissioned.

[adam]

Sounds interesting. I have absolutely.no idea how these work. 😆 Are you able to crank them up to 25 degrees in the winter months like the Mrs does with our heating? 

[deep blue]

Thanks for sharing your experience in this thread.  Very useful as many people will be looking to make this switch soon.

 

Prior to the installation, did you get any independent expert advice on comparison with other systems (e.g.  ground source heat pump) and on the larger context of making your house ecologically efficient e.g. insulation issues?  We are considering moves to improve our house in those respects but have no idea who you can trust to give sound, independent advice.

 

Thanks.

[Bellend Sebastian]

I thought my neighbour had just had one put in, but I think it's actually an air conditioning unit.

 

A bold move in an energy crisis

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Will be following this thread closely, thanks.

[The Year Of The Fox]

Very very very interested in this come the winter months

 

I assume you only had to upgrade one rad due to this electric booster? 

[The Year Of The Fox]

Taken from the Mercury page yesterday 

 

 

Im massively dubious and in all honestly, hope they fail (generally speaking- I don’t want people to end up skint because of them) 

 

Hoping the Hydrogen Boilers are going to be the way forward. 

[The Year Of The Fox]

On 24/05/2022 at 19:03, Dahnsouff said:

Thread about air source heat pump experience

 

The following new stuff was installed

1. Daikin Heat Pump  (outside wall of kitchen)
2. Daikin Altherma 3 (hybrid boiler/inside unit) (inside kitchen linked to #1)
3. Daikin pressurised cylinder in cupboard (linked #2)

These all use 40mm not 22mm piping

 

This is what is often called a high temperature ASHP, as rather than just relying on the heat pump to raise the temperature, this has what is basically an electric boiler in the internal unit, and this lets you reach higher temperatures than you usually would. There seem to be more common now.

 

Cost wise it was 15k BUT

• We get VAT back on all components (3k approx)
• We get 5k back from BUS when it kicks in late May

 

But

• As part of the survey for the work, it was found that some of our radiators were crap and lacked the output ideal for an ASHP
  • This sounds bad, but even in our 1930s semi we only had to replace one radiator
     

The BUS requires you has criteria such as good insulation, something we are having a (long overdue0 new EPC created to prove (The EPC was included in the cost, new insulation or new radiators are not)

 

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/environmental-and-social-schemes/boiler-upgrade-scheme-bus

 

40mm pipe is bloody huge too. Is that on show on the outside of the house? It can’t really be going through your joists as the notches are likely to be too big 

[Big Dave]

12 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Taken from the Mercury page yesterday 

 

 

Im massively dubious and in all honestly, hope they fail (generally speaking- I don’t want people to end up skint because of them) 

 

Hoping the Hydrogen Boilers are going to be the way forward. 

From what I understand, new builds would be ideal for ASHP’s (or GSHP’s), but these systems cost circa £15k, gas boiler circa £2k - that is the main reason they are not fitted on new-builds.

[The Year Of The Fox]

2 minutes ago, Big Dave said:

From what I understand, new builds would be ideal for ASHP’s (or GSHP’s), but these systems cost circa £15k, gas boiler circa £2k - that is the main reason they are not fitted on new-builds.

So after 2025, everyone’s new build house is going to cost £13k more? 
 

Space is a premium in new builds, and the majority of locations you’d hang a rad aren’t big enough to accommodate the larger radiators required for ASHPs to actually heat the rooms properly.

 

The government haven’t thought it through at all.

 

It won’t be long until you’re getting phone calls like the PPI asking whether you think you’ve been missold an ASHP

[Dahnsouff]

10 hours ago, deep blue said:

Thanks for sharing your experience in this thread.  Very useful as many people will be looking to make this switch soon.

 

Prior to the installation, did you get any independent expert advice on comparison with other systems (e.g.  ground source heat pump) and on the larger context of making your house ecologically efficient e.g. insulation issues?  We are considering moves to improve our house in those respects but have no idea who you can trust to give sound, independent advice.

 

Thanks.

We did spend some time researching, and then engaged a few companies to survey as to what we would need to do. It did reveal that some radiators were not ideal, so some we replaced, as much as them being really old tbh,

 

We originally wanted solar but were told it was not possible, so we looked at GSHP, but wife did not want us destroying the garden, so then we started looking at ASHPs.

 

 

[Dahnsouff]

8 hours ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

40mm pipe is bloody huge too. Is that on show on the outside of the house? It can’t really be going through your joists as the notches are likely to be too big 

The 40mm pipe is only between boiler, heat pump and hot water cylinder,  the pipes throughout the house has been retained.

[The Year Of The Fox]

1 hour ago, Dahnsouff said:

The 40mm pipe is only between boiler, heat pump and hot water cylinder,  the pipes throughout the house has been retained.

That’s your primary flow and return then.

 

Your existing pipework to rads will be 15mm. 
 

The vast majority of new builds up and down the country are microbore and so won’t work without pipework and radiator upgrades which is why the whole idea is so flawed 

Edited 27 May 2022 by The Year Of The Fox

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, The Year Of The Fox said:

That’s your primary flow and return then.

 

Your existing pipework to rads will be 15mm. 
 

The vast majority of new builds up and down the country are microbore and so won’t work with pipework and radiator upgrades which is why the whole idea is so flawed 

Fair enough, not within my knowledge, thats for sure!

 

Thats why we went to several companies to get a comparative opinion, and we thought it would be difficult being in a 1930s semi, so was a retro fit exercise.

 

It helped that we had planned to update several older parts of the house, rads, insulation, etc anyway, and this felt a fairly good time to see is heat pumps were viable for us

[deep blue]

2 hours ago, Dahnsouff said:

We did spend some time researching, and then engaged a few companies to survey as to what we would need to do. It did reveal that some radiators were not ideal, so some we replaced, as much as them being really old tbh,

 

We originally wanted solar but were told it was not possible, so we looked at GSHP, but wife did not want us destroying the garden, so then we started looking at ASHPs.

 

 

Thanks.

 

We have a different starting point.   We moved in 15 years ago - a 25 year old detached house - and put in solar water and pv panels, with underfloor heating downstairs, retaining the radiators upstairs. The roof panels are only reasonably effective as our roofing is not perfectly angled, and we are in Manchester!  I was very interested in GSHP and rue not having the courage to go for it (it would have been a vertical shaft in a small garden and I was nervous about it at the time.  

 

We would like a thorough assessment of the whole property from an energy conservation point of view.  I suspect even a merely adequate solution would cost a fortune.

 

Therein lies the problem for all householders who want to upgrade their properties.  As others have already noted on here it's difficult to believe that the government has any plan to address the scale of the problem.

[Dahnsouff]

12 minutes ago, deep blue said:

Thanks.

 

We have a different starting point.   We moved in 15 years ago - a 25 year old detached house - and put in solar water and pv panels, with underfloor heating downstairs, retaining the radiators upstairs. The roof panels are only reasonably effective as our roofing is not perfectly angled, and we are in Manchester!  I was very interested in GSHP and rue not having the courage to go for it (it would have been a vertical shaft in a small garden and I was nervous about it at the time.  

 

We would like a thorough assessment of the whole property from an energy conservation point of view.  I suspect even a merely adequate solution would cost a fortune.

 

Therein lies the problem for all householders who want to upgrade their properties.  As others have already noted on here it's difficult to believe that the government has any plan to address the scale of the problem.

It true, there needs to be Government assistance on what a given household can do (This is half the battle unless you are in a related trade), what they could potentially achieve given the available technologies. I am not convinced ASHP or GSHP are a good fit for everyone. We are quite a low user of energy, we have a our hating quite low, so it was not a massive step we were taking.

 

We tried solar first, and they said a flat NO due to the number of velux's on the roof, its a very irritating process due my lack of understanding of just what is out there and what was suitable.

 

Anyway, its working now and we have got rid of gas totally, so far so good.

[Daggers]

“And that was Air source heat pump diary…”

 

 

[Dahnsouff]

It’s weekly pop pickers, anymore would be too much of a bore

 

so tune in tomorrow for more of the same nothing much

[Dahnsouff]

Heat pump report 31/05/2022

 

Ok, it’s been fine this week, functioning as we expect from a central heating system…

 

..until today

 

So it seems the problem is not with the heat pump, but some crap taps put in. They are not allowing the water to top up (why does it need topping up, it’s pressurised system? Well, that’s a separate question for now…)

When the pressure stays at > 1 bar it’s fine, but after a week it dropped and the heat pump exchanger reports a flow problem (does seem quite sensitive)

This means I need to go back to the fitters and tell them to fix it, but I still have hope!

 

Anyway, in terms of usage/cost 

 

30TH MAY

15.3kWh of electricity

vs 14.1kWh this time last week 9%

During the first day:

MTWTFSS

So far this week...

30TH MAY

0.0m³ of gas

vs 0.0m³ this time last week

During the first day:

MTWTFSS

[Strokes]

18 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Heat pump report 31/05/2022

 

Ok, it’s been fine this week, functioning as we expect from a central heating system…

 

..until today

 

So it seems the problem is not with the heat pump, but some crap taps put in. They are not allowing the water to top up (why does it need topping up, it’s pressurised system? Well, that’s a separate question for now…)

When the pressure stays at > 1 bar it’s fine, but after a week it dropped and the heat pump exchanger reports a flow problem (does seem quite sensitive)

This means I need to go back to the fitters and tell them to fix it, but I still have hope!

 

Anyway, in terms of usage/cost 

 

30TH MAY

15.3kWh of electricity

vs 14.1kWh this time last week 9%

During the first day:

MTWTFSS

So far this week...

30TH MAY

0.0m³ of gas

vs 0.0m³ this time last week

During the first day:

MTWTFSS

I’d rather we generate more renewables and retain our current way of living over this. It seems like a massive faff.