Climate Change - a poll

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, Otis said:

Flooding

edit

The village has frequently suffered flooding from the river, the most serious of which claimed the life of an Afon Street resident in 1960.^{[citation needed]} (Afon is Welsh for 'river'.) Flooding also occurred in 1921, 1929, and 1979, after which the Rhondda River bank was reinforced. "The 1979 flood overtopped the banks of the River Rhondda just downriver from Trehafod, and floodwaters entered the low-lying areas of Colliery Street and Great Street, flooding many properties. A major river improvement scheme was completed in 1985, but the village has still suffered significant flooding since, including in February 2020.^[

 

6 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

... and I'm pretty sure that they haven't had two of such severity within four years of each other and the events in Valencia are pretty much unprecedented.

 

I suppose we could bask in denial and say they were just unlucky, horrible to be them, though.

Right.

 

But I guess we're clearly going round and round at this point, with nothing said about events elsewhere (including Valencia).

Edited 25 November 2024 by leicsmac

[Otis]

5 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

 

Right.

 

But I guess we're clearly going round and round at this point, with nothing said about events elsewhere (including Valencia).

Yeah your right. Previous it was 8 years and 6 years but now it's happened within 4 years it's obviously down to climate change. 

 

I've got nothing to say regarding the awful events in Valencia which climate change most likely was a factor. 

 

My point is not every extreme weather event is climate change driven. Sometimes it's hot, cold or rainy somewhere.

[leicsmac]

20 minutes ago, Otis said:

Yeah your right. Previous it was 8 years and 6 years but now it's happened within 4 years it's obviously down to climate change. 

 

I've got nothing to say regarding the awful events in Valencia which climate change most likely was a factor. 

 

My point is not every extreme weather event is climate change driven. Sometimes it's hot, cold or rainy somewhere.

Fair enough, seems like "not every extreme event is climate change driven but the climate change that is happening makes them much more likely" is perhaps some common ground to be found here.

[fox_up_north]

From my own observation and research (mostly about making my home more efficient and weather proof), it seems to be the way rising temps will affect the UK and northern Europe will be

 

- warmer air holds more moisture

- melting ice caps means higher sea levels

- higher sea levels means rivers adversely affected

 

The end result is more rain, more dodgy storms because of hotter air and more flooding. It's not the Britain will become "like Italy" because we're too far up the curve of the Earth for that. More likely that we'll have more bad impacts.

 

For us to adapt it would most likely mean continuously repairing roads, weatherproofing houses, moving away from flood plains and building loads of defences. Costs a lot of money, either way. 

[fox_up_north]

Oh and lots and lots of climate immigration when Africa overheats

[leicsmac]

18 minutes ago, fox_up_north said:

Oh and lots and lots of climate immigration when Africa overheats

To say nothing of a lot of tropical Asia as flooding and drought really take hold over there.

 

And when resources dwindle as a result, expect shooting to start. Another corollary.

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

My home village is in the news because of the landslip of a coal waste tip. Undoubtedly the valleys have become wetter and flashy and climate change has contributed and is doing so. My friends evacuated from their house, luckily OK. We need to wake up! 

[Heathrow fox]

On 18/11/2024 at 17:50, leicsmac said:

That's all any of us can do, really.

 

And if it all comes to naught, hope that those left behind don't view every single one of us with contempt, but just those who, through ignorance or malice, chose to do nothing.

Reading the solar panel advise thread earlier.Reasons for getting solar panels

1 Good investment 

2 Protection against current and future energy price spikes

3 Lower monthly bills saving £££££

Only one poster has directly mentioned benefits to the environment (Free Falling Foxes)

I have no doubt that individual carbon footprint comes into play somewhere,but let’s no kid ourselves hey.

[leicsmac]

7 hours ago, Heathrow fox said:

Reading the solar panel advise thread earlier.Reasons for getting solar panels

1 Good investment 

2 Protection against current and future energy price spikes

3 Lower monthly bills saving £££££

Only one poster has directly mentioned benefits to the environment (Free Falling Foxes)

I have no doubt that individual carbon footprint comes into play somewhere,but let’s no kid ourselves hey.

If the point being made here is that this small subset of people are choosing solar panels because of fiscal self-interest, that's accurate and it's a case where self interest serves a greater good, however...

 

It doesn't detract from the bigger picture and where they need to fit into a necessary transition, and it won't stop whoever is left (rightly) denouncing those who were too beholden to that self-interest should everything go horribly wrong.

[WigstonWanderer]

23 hours ago, Heathrow fox said:

Reading the solar panel advise thread earlier.Reasons for getting solar panels

1 Good investment 

2 Protection against current and future energy price spikes

3 Lower monthly bills saving £££££

Only one poster has directly mentioned benefits to the environment (Free Falling Foxes)

I have no doubt that individual carbon footprint comes into play somewhere,but let’s no kid ourselves hey.

A happy coincidence where the greater good coincides with saving money. Can’t see anything wrong in that, and a transition away from fossil fuels probably won’t happen any other way than by making it a cheaper alternative (which I believe in most cases is already true, particularly if all the costs of business as usual are factored in).

[Daggers]

[leicsmac]

38 minutes ago, Daggers said:

That it's a Beamer makes it still more poetic.

[leicsmac]

And once again...

 

When, exactly, did the survival of countless millions of human lives and our civilisation, and the concept of leaving a better Earth for the humans that come after us, become a partisan issue?

 

I cannot understand why anyone wouldn't buy into that idea.

[Grebfromgrebland]

48 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

And once again...

 

When, exactly, did the survival of countless millions of human lives and our civilisation, and the concept of leaving a better Earth for the humans that come after us, become a partisan issue?

 

I cannot understand why anyone wouldn't buy into that idea.

This puts into focus on where and on who the priorities of governments around the world are.

 

ie. It's not on making the world a better place for the population.

[leicsmac]

7 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

This puts into focus on where and on who the priorities of governments around the world are.

 

ie. It's not on making the world a better place for the population.

And most of the time in a democracy, the population gets the government it deserves.

[Grebfromgrebland]

58 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

And most of the time in a democracy, the population gets the government it deserves.

This is a popular saying but I'm not sure I actually believe it anymore. Most of the time in a democracy we get to vote for the people presented to us and most of that is pretty skewed to those who have the most influence in the media and who has the most influence online and who has the most spending power on adverts. 

 

I think if you ask most people in this country do we want a functioning health service and railway, nationalised water gas and electricity, better human rights, better working rights and a better living environment everyone would say yes but the reality is we keep consistently voting for the opposite.

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

This is a popular saying but I'm not sure I actually believe it anymore. Most of the time in a democracy we get to vote for the people presented to us and most of that is pretty skewed to those who have the most influence in the media and who has the most influence online and who has the most spending power on adverts. 

 

I think if you ask most people in this country do we want a functioning health service and railway, nationalised water gas and electricity, better human rights, better working rights and a better living environment everyone would say yes but the reality is we keep consistently voting for the opposite.

It's a fair argument to make.

 

However, as time goes by and the future cost becomes more and more apparent, it's difficult to place all ofthe culpability on the influential con artists.

 

Should the worst come to pass, those left behind likely won't be blaming them alone, either. They'll blame all of the apathetic and the self interested involved in the democratic process that led to that point too.

[Robo61]

52 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

This is a popular saying but I'm not sure I actually believe it anymore. Most of the time in a democracy we get to vote for the people presented to us and most of that is pretty skewed to those who have the most influence in the media and who has the most influence online and who has the most spending power on adverts. 

 

I think if you ask most people in this country do we want a functioning health service and railway, nationalised water gas and electricity, better human rights, better working rights and a better living environment everyone would say yes but the reality is we keep consistently voting for the opposite.

Some people are so easily conned if they are voting against their beliefs and interests.  Those are getting the government they deserve. 

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg8dg3ke40o

 

Climate change has brought record-breaking heat this year, and with it extreme weather, from hurricanes to month-long droughts.

This year is expected to be the hottest on record, and new research shows that people around the world experienced an additional 41 days of dangerous heat due to climate change.

Researchers from the World Weather Attribution (WWA) group at Imperial College and Climate Central said the study shows "we are living in a dangerous new era".

 

A sobering analysis of this year.

 

And a reminder that if not enough is done, this will just be the beginning.

[blabyboy]

We've already passed the Rubicon, it's all about mitigation and adaption now... Not all bad as it will prepare us for off world habitation.

[leicsmac]

4 hours ago, blabyboy said:

We've already passed the Rubicon, it's all about mitigation and adaption now... Not all bad as it will prepare us for off world habitation.

This may well be true. Mitigation is still going to include changing how we generate energy and going for net zero though. Or this current generation of humanity are still going to be responsible for the consequences future ones suffer simply because we could have done more and didn't.

[blabyboy]

They're already responsible, as are the generations before them. There's always been a moral deficit in this area since at least the 1500's .. depending upon your point of view.

 

I think it's more about accepting we're fooked and getting on with dealing with the the fallout that comes from that and establishing new normals.

[leicsmac]

22 hours ago, blabyboy said:

They're already responsible, as are the generations before them. There's always been a moral deficit in this area since at least the 1500's .. depending upon your point of view.

 

I think it's more about accepting we're fooked and getting on with dealing with the the fallout that comes from that and establishing new normals.

I'd rather not accept the incoming consequences as a fait accompli tbh, given how severe they may well be.

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd7575x8yq5o

 

 

 

The planet has moved a major step closer to warming more than 1.5C, new data shows, despite world leaders vowing a decade ago they would try to avoid this.

The European Copernicus climate service, one of the main global data providers, said on Friday that 2024 was the first calendar year to pass the symbolic threshold, as well as the world's hottest on record.

This does not mean the international 1.5C target has been broken, because that refers to a long-term average over decades, but does bring us nearer to doing so as fossil fuel emissions continue to heat the atmosphere.

 

And we're already beginning to get a taste of the consequences. But just a taste. So far.

[leicsmac]

Trump with the expected rhetoric about climate change not being a problem at his inauguration, then.

 

When the consequences of that become apparent - as they already are and will only get bigger - I sincerely hope it's recorded that those consequences are on the heads of him and those who voted for him. Because those left won't necessarily be picky about who they hold accountable.