General News Thread

[leicsmac]

8 minutes ago, CornwallFox said:

We really need to be closer to Europe and further from the US but obviously quite a bit chunk of the country don't agree with that. 

The US voting trump twice and his actions over tariffs, NATO and Europe really should mean us moving away from being their poodle.

Along similar lines to these thoughts:

 

I've heard quite a few people (including sitting MPs) who think that the UK should keep China at arms length because their government and value structures are incompatible with that of the UK. 

 

Well, at the present time, what exactly in terms of the above does the US have in common with the UK and that we should seek to emulate/value?

[CornwallFox]

6 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Along similar lines to these thoughts:

 

I've heard quite a few people (including sitting MPs) who think that the UK should keep China at arms length because their government and value structures are incompatible with that of the UK. 

 

Well, at the present time, what exactly in terms of the above does the US have in common with the UK and that we should seek to emulate/value?

It always looks to me that China is only argued against as they threaten Western, and in particular US, domination.

What wars have they started? When did they last attack another country? When did they impose tariffs unilaterally to try to force a result? 

Maybe we don't like some of their friends but I'm struggling to see them as an adversary.

[worthosoriginals]

12 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Along similar lines to these thoughts:

 

I've heard quite a few people (including sitting MPs) who think that the UK should keep China at arms length because their government and value structures are incompatible with that of the UK. 

 

Well, at the present time, what exactly in terms of the above does the US have in common with the UK and that we should seek to emulate/value?

Obesity stats, we have that in common.

[Clogger_]

I reckon western countries including US are rowing back on the anti-China sentiment in low key but important ways. Hard to argue with their innovation/price ratio

 

World is a strange place at the moment. Alliances are... fluid

[Salisbury Fox]

29 minutes ago, CornwallFox said:

It always looks to me that China is only argued against as they threaten Western, and in particular US, domination.

What wars have they started? When did they last attack another country? When did they impose tariffs unilaterally to try to force a result? 

Maybe we don't like some of their friends but I'm struggling to see them as an adversary.

Isn’t it a case of being less aware of China’s coercive practices than the American’s? China’s activities in the South China Sea should represent a more overt warning, but when you consider the political and strategic infrastructure concessions from belt and road financing it appears to me that they pose a significant risk. The spying and influence campaign they are also conducting is of an industrial scale too. Whilst I share your views about the current US administration, at least with them there is hope of political change, the same can’t be said for China.

[CornwallFox]

26 minutes ago, Salisbury Fox said:

Isn’t it a case of being less aware of China’s coercive practices than the American’s? China’s activities in the South China Sea should represent a more overt warning, but when you consider the political and strategic infrastructure concessions from belt and road financing it appears to me that they pose a significant risk. The spying and influence campaign they are also conducting is of an industrial scale too. Whilst I share your views about the current US administration, at least with them there is hope of political change, the same can’t be said for China.

But what's the actual thing we're afraid of with China? We hear about these supposed under the surface risks, but of what?

If the US doesn't like you then you're bombed to oblivion. If you don't get on with China you just don't get to be friends with them. 

[bovril]

Honestly **** the US. I probably believe the Russians more than the Americans. At least the Russians don't cloak their imperial ambitions with so many words on freedom, democracy etc. 

[Zear0]

38 minutes ago, bovril said:

Honestly **** the US. I probably believe the Russians more than the Americans. At least the Russians don't cloak their imperial ambitions with so many words on freedom, democracy etc. 

Special military operations? 

[bovril]

7 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

Special military operations? 

well yeah I guess there's that. Still, death to America.

[Salisbury Fox]

1 hour ago, CornwallFox said:

But what's the actual thing we're afraid of with China? We hear about these supposed under the surface risks, but of what?

If the US doesn't like you then you're bombed to oblivion. If you don't get on with China you just don't get to be friends with them. 

The concern isn’t that China will invade or attack us directly, the issue is that China’s leverage comes through economic coercion, strategic dependence and control over key technologies and supply chains. The fear therefore is not a militaristic one, but one that sees them reshape rules and norms that limit our autonomy through a different means than the US uses. There’s a reason why our security services are becoming more vocal about the threats posed and only a fool would ignore this. It essentially requires a very cautious approach rather than jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

[Tommy G]

18 minutes ago, Salisbury Fox said:

The concern isn’t that China will invade or attack us directly, the issue is that China’s leverage comes through economic coercion, strategic dependence and control over key technologies and supply chains. The fear therefore is not a militaristic one, but one that sees them reshape rules and norms that limit our autonomy through a different means than the US uses. There’s a reason why our security services are becoming more vocal about the threats posed and only a fool would ignore this. It essentially requires a very cautious approach rather than jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

I work with the Chinese day in day out - got nothing other than positive experiences to talk about. The culture takes a bit of getting used to, but I find them respectful, intelligent and hard working. 

[Salisbury Fox]

17 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

I work with the Chinese day in day out - got nothing other than positive experiences to talk about. The culture takes a bit of getting used to, but I find them respectful, intelligent and hard working. 

That’s totally fair and I’m not questioning anyone’s positive experiences of working with Chinese people. My point is more about the actions of the Chinese state. 

[leicsmac]

3 hours ago, CornwallFox said:

It always looks to me that China is only argued against as they threaten Western, and in particular US, domination.

What wars have they started? When did they last attack another country? When did they impose tariffs unilaterally to try to force a result? 

Maybe we don't like some of their friends but I'm struggling to see them as an adversary.

An argument could be made that their cultural and social norms are toally incompatible with the UK to the point it will always appear anathema and so require adversarial thinking, and the way they apply power is much softer, but it does exist. 

 

That being said, the way they view the long term and apply their power in other to make those long term plans work is, at least in some cases, an example to at least be studied carefully. 

 

36 minutes ago, Salisbury Fox said:

The concern isn’t that China will invade or attack us directly, the issue is that China’s leverage comes through economic coercion, strategic dependence and control over key technologies and supply chains. The fear therefore is not a militaristic one, but one that sees them reshape rules and norms that limit our autonomy through a different means than the US uses. There’s a reason why our security services are becoming more vocal about the threats posed and only a fool would ignore this. It essentially requires a very cautious approach rather than jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

 

I think while this appears to be true, IMO the Chinese objective isn't hegemonic domination in the same way the US (or Russia, for instance) desire. 

 

They are leveraging their power (in a way that the security services are clearly alarmed about) in order to have a place at the top table, but to be among equals at that table, not at the head. (In fact, I think one of the reasons they're flexing their muscles is that in their opinion there shouldn't be a head at all and to work to that end).

[Salisbury Fox]

14 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I think while this appears to be true, IMO the Chinese objective isn't hegemonic domination in the same way the US (or Russia, for instance) desire. 

 

They are leveraging their power (in a way that the security services are clearly alarmed about) in order to have a place at the top table, but to be among equals at that table, not at the head. (In fact, I think one of the reasons they're flexing their muscles is that in their opinion there shouldn't be a head at all and to work to that end).

Well that’s certainly a leap of faith and I am not convinced that their ambition is limited to being equals. Their military build up, economic leverage and political influence campaigns appear to go beyond have a seat.

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, Salisbury Fox said:

Well that’s certainly a leap of faith and I am not convinced that their ambition is limited to being equals. Their military build up, economic leverage and political influence campaigns appear to go beyond have a seat.

Fair to say, and it's possible you're right and I'm not here. 

 

The only thing that I'll add is that should that be the case, at least there will still be a civilisation to speak of for at least a while. I don't think there are any such guarantees if any of the other usual suspects were/are running the show. 

[Salisbury Fox]

10 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Fair to say, and it's possible you're right and I'm not here. 

 

The only thing that I'll add is that should that be the case, at least there will still be a civilisation to speak of for at least a while. I don't think there are any such guarantees if any of the other usual suspects were/are running the show. 

You won’t find me disagreeing with you there.

[Sampson]

5 hours ago, CornwallFox said:

We really need to be closer to Europe and further from the US but obviously quite a bit chunk of the country don't agree with that. 

The US voting trump twice and his actions over tariffs, NATO and Europe really should mean us moving away from being their poodle.

They don’t. Most of the UK is much more pro-Europe than the US, it’s just because how our voting system designed for 2 parties has now complete broken down now it’s a 5 party system instead, and means the pro-Trump party is currently on about 25% of the vote and would get 100% of the power with that, so they are getting way more media attention then the LibDems used to get when they had had better support under Kennedy and Clegg

 

For reference

 

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/international/trackers/should-britain-have-a-stronger-relationship-with-europe-of-the-us?crossBreak=1824

 

 

 

 

Edited 6 December 2025 by Sampson

[PAULCFC]

3 hours ago, Tommy G said:

I work with the Chinese day in day out - got nothing other than positive experiences to talk about. The culture takes a bit of getting used to, but I find them respectful, intelligent and hard working. 

If you can get a bit more Tsingtao shipped over here it would be great! Only really find it in Home Bargains now,but it's my fave lager

[Trav Le Bleu]

10 hours ago, Tommy G said:

I work with the Chinese day in day out - got nothing other than positive experiences to talk about. The culture takes a bit of getting used to, but I find them respectful, intelligent and hard working. 

Delivering takeaways does not constitute "working with the Chinese day in day out".

[Tommy G]

16 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Delivering takeaways does not constitute "working with the Chinese day in day out".

Steady!

[StanSP]

 

 

[Zear0]

15 minutes ago, StanSP said:

 

 

That's a lot of breaking news in one Tweet

[Trav Le Bleu]

1 hour ago, StanSP said:

 

 

Two groups of people known to each other. Feuding families falling out on holiday?

[Tommy G]

10 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Two groups of people known to each other. Feuding families falling out on holiday?

Seen one of the blokes responsible in cuffs. Let’s see what the media say 

[Zear0]

12 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Two groups of people known to each other. Feuding families falling out on holiday?

Wouldn't happen. Such a peaceful time the airport on a family holiday.