General News Thread

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, kenny said:

We need gas for same reason China uses coal. It's because its a form of power that can be turned on quickly when we have no wind or the sun isn't shining.

 

Nuclear is good as it's on all the time but you can't fire it up between windy days.

And I'm sure future generations will thank us most profusely for our lack of creativity and adaptation should that remain the case. 

 

Hopefully, such energy decisions will end up being made by people who can look beyond the end of their self interested noses. 

[CornwallFox]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

And I'm sure future generations will thank us most profusely for our lack of creativity and adaptation should that remain the case. 

 

Hopefully, such energy decisions will end up being made by people who can look beyond the end of their self interested noses. 

You could also mention it's just utter, utter nonsense. As proven by all the countries that don't use it. Such a blatantly transparently nonsense argument. 

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, CornwallFox said:

You could also mention it's just utter, utter nonsense. As proven by all the countries that don't use it. Such a blatantly transparently nonsense argument. 

I could use that argument, but as far as I'm concerned the idea that fossil fuel use for energy generation creates problems we're already seeing and will only get much much worse (entirely unnecessarily) stands pretty much by itself and I've heard precious little counterargument to it. 

[Sampson]

Primates gonna primate.

[kenny]

18 minutes ago, CornwallFox said:

You could also mention it's just utter, utter nonsense. As proven by all the countries that don't use it. Such a blatantly transparently nonsense argument. 

As it's nonsense, perhaps you could enlighten the group?

 

Unless you are planning on pointing to the countries that have excellent geothermal and hydro resources such as Scandinavia? In which case we need to focus on changing our geology before we start worrying about what fuel we use.

[Mike Oxlong]

11 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Primates gonna primate.

Got KP in / KP out vibes 

[Trav Le Bleu]

46 minutes ago, kenny said:

We need gas for same reason China uses coal. It's because its a form of power that can be turned on quickly when we have no wind or the sun isn't shining.

 

Nuclear is good as it's on all the time but you can't fire it up between windy days.

As battery storage gets better, increasingly less of a problem.

 

Also, we have tidal constantly and being an island, a huge coastline, bigger than Mexico, which is a massive country.

[kenny]

5 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

As battery storage gets better, increasingly less of a problem.

 

Also, we have tidal constantly and being an island, a huge coastline, bigger than Mexico, which is a massive country.

I've thought the same about tidal, there is a large tidal plant in France and you can see various turbines on the docks in le harve. The general consensus appears to be it's difficult and expensive to maintain. The French one uses a tidal river rather than a general coastline.

 

There is some geothermal potential down south, there are plants in Southampton and at the eden project, but again I think the cost Vs reward isn't as easy as wind or solar.

 

Batteries will help with smaller peaks and troughs, but they won't help if we have several months of generally still weather like we did last year.

[foxes1988]

5 minutes ago, kenny said:

I've thought the same about tidal, there is a large tidal plant in France and you can see various turbines on the docks in le harve. The general consensus appears to be it's difficult and expensive to maintain. The French one uses a tidal river rather than a general coastline.

 

There is some geothermal potential down south, there are plants in Southampton and at the eden project, but again I think the cost Vs reward isn't as easy as wind or solar.

 

Batteries will help with smaller peaks and troughs, but they won't help if we have several months of generally still weather like we did last year.

BESS is at too small a scale at the minute although this will rapidly increase so in the not to distant future it will make a massive difference .Tbf to Labour they have really pushed through a lot of the battery storage.

 

The other thing is interconnectors. We are already at the stage where it's cheaper for us to buy significantly from the French Dutch and Norwegians rather then turn on our own Gas power plants.  Days of significant gas powered electricity are behind us.

[Zear0]

59 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

Got KP in / KP out vibes 

They’re far more nuanced 

[Clogger_]

IMO there's no more important or *patriotic* project for our country than getting away from fossil fuel dependency. Glad to see us holding the line on this

Edited 11 April by Clogger_

[kenny]

6 minutes ago, foxes1988 said:

BESS is at too small a scale at the minute although this will rapidly increase so in the not to distant future it will make a massive difference .Tbf to Labour they have really pushed through a lot of the battery storage.

 

The other thing is interconnectors. We are already at the stage where it's cheaper for us to buy significantly from the French Dutch and Norwegians rather then turn on our own Gas power plants.  Days of significant gas powered electricity are behind us.

Also allows us to export to them as well. We have had years recently where we have been a net exporter when Frances aging nuclear plants were down.

 

It's a real shame that Labour have cancelled the Morocco interconnector project, I thought that was a very clever piece of thinking albeit relying on undersea cables at present is a worry.

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Clogger_ said:

IMO there's no more important or *patriotic* project for our country than getting away from fossil fuel dependency. Glad to see us holding the line on this

It's patriotic to not only the country, but to our species, the future and the great many lives it will save from a great deal of problems in that future. 

 

Again, I'm waiting to hear why exactly that isn't a good enough reason by Itself. 

[CornwallFox]

Now apparently the green party are banning horse racing. All the right wing rags on it, jenrick and co tweeting about it. 

Is it a policy? No. A single tweet from 2018 is the sole rationale for the latest pile on. All just honest journalism though, I'm sure 

[leicsmac]

9 minutes ago, CornwallFox said:

Now apparently the green party are banning horse racing. All the right wing rags on it, jenrick and co tweeting about it. 

Is it a policy? No. A single tweet from 2018 is the sole rationale for the latest pile on. All just honest journalism though, I'm sure 

 

On 09/04/2026 at 15:16, leicsmac said:

 

 

That area of the press will be looking to pillory him by any means necessary and if they can't get an easy reason, they'll fabricate one that their readership will swallow like taffy anyway. 

Second part of that sentence important.

 

Again, the press regulator appears entirely toothless on things like this.

[foxy tiler]

35 minutes ago, CornwallFox said:

Now apparently the green party are banning horse racing. All the right wing rags on it, jenrick and co tweeting about it. 

Is it a policy? No. A single tweet from 2018 is the sole rationale for the latest pile on. All just honest journalism though, I'm sure 

The press in this country needs to held to account.....its losing it semblance of independence. Turning into rich people's mouth peices. 

[bovril]

Logging on to this thread to cheer me up after the football 

[Trav Le Bleu]

2 hours ago, foxy tiler said:

The press in this country needs to held to account.....its losing it semblance of independence. Turning into rich people's mouth peices. 

Has there ever been a semblance of independence from the British press?

[kenny]

3 hours ago, CornwallFox said:

Now apparently the green party are banning horse racing. All the right wing rags on it, jenrick and co tweeting about it. 

Is it a policy? No. A single tweet from 2018 is the sole rationale for the latest pile on. All just honest journalism though, I'm sure 

Presumably you mean 2024? where  zp said “Let’s go further and remove all animals involved in sport”

 

I suppose you could argue that the opinions of the leader are not reflective or party policy in the same way that old but live documents from the GP website aren't? All guesswork for the electorate or mean underhandedness from the media I'm never sure?

[leicsmac]

23 minutes ago, kenny said:

Presumably you mean 2024? where  zp said “Let’s go further and remove all animals involved in sport”

 

I suppose you could argue that the opinions of the leader are not reflective or party policy in the same way that old but live documents from the GP website aren't? All guesswork for the electorate or mean underhandedness from the media I'm never sure?

I'm sorry, but this either shows a lack of understanding of the way media outlets use and are using inference to indicate certainty where there isn't any, or this line of argument is really disingenuous. 

 

Edit: with respect to earlier discussion, if and when you want to discuss energy policy that concerns a rather broader outlook, it would be welcomed. 

Edited 11 April by leicsmac

[foxy tiler]

40 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Has there ever been a semblance of independence from the British press?

Probably not but its far easier to join the dots now.

[kenny]

9 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I'm sorry, but this either shows a lack of understanding of the way media outlets use and are using inference to indicate certainty where there isn't any, or this line of argument is really disingenuous. 

 

Edit: with respect to earlier discussion, if and when you want to discuss energy policy that concerns a rather broader outlook, it would be welcomed. 

It may indeed show that. Which is why I try to absorb a variety of media. Perhaps @CornwallFox has not had the opportunity to familiarise themselves with ZP latest opinions or perhaps I have misunderstood how the green party chooses it's policies hence our previous discussions about what is or is not GP policy.

 

As someone that is broadly supportive of a practical, achievable and non performative environmental energy policy I am always keen to learn. I have learnt it's easier to talk about it than actually do anything to be honest.

[leicsmac]

8 minutes ago, kenny said:

It may indeed show that. Which is why I try to absorb a variety of media. Perhaps @CornwallFox has not had the opportunity to familiarise themselves with ZP latest opinions or perhaps I have misunderstood how the green party chooses it's policies hence our previous discussions about what is or is not GP policy.

 

As someone that is broadly supportive of a practical, achievable and non performative environmental energy policy I am always keen to learn. I have learnt it's easier to talk about it than actually do anything to be honest.

Fair enough. 

 

It's certainly easier to talk than to do, but the doing tends to start with the talking, so it is also important. 

 

As far as I'm concerned - and can prove to a reasonable balance of probability, certainly probable enough for it to matter - the practical economic argument is as simple as the ethical one. Either the UK invests to lead/follow the world in adapting energy generation that does not rely on constant carbon emissions, or changes in the Earth will occur that will result in a cost in money and lives that is an order of magnitude, several orders of magnitude, perhaps, higher than the cost of that investment. 

 

The mechanics of the solution are clearly a matter of debate but that the solution needs to be applied is not - and believing applying the mechanics to be difficult cannot be used as an excuse to not apply the solution.

 

Buy now, or pay much more later. 

 

The only possible counterargument I can think of is that the future is worth so much less than the present in the mind of a person that we shouldn't care. 

Edited 11 April by leicsmac

[kenny]

15 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Fair enough. 

 

It's certainly easier to talk than to do, but the doing tends to start with the talking, so it is also important. 

 

As far as I'm concerned - and can prove to a reasonable balance of probability, certainly probable enough for it to matter - the practical economic argument is as simple as the ethical one. Either the UK invests to lead/follow the world in adapting energy generation that does not rely on constant carbon emissions, or changes in the Earth will occur that will result in a cost in money and lives that is an order of magnitude, several orders of magnitude, perhaps, higher than the cost of that investment. 

 

The mechanics of the solution are clearly a matter of debate but that the solution needs to be applied is not - and believing applying the mechanics to be difficult cannot be used as an excuse to not apply the solution.

 

Buy now, or pay much more later. 

 

The only possible counterargument I can think of is that the future is worth so much less than the present in the mind of a person that we shouldn't care. 

I'm not sure I understand any of what you have written but then I've never been a (word) salad fan.

 

I prefer to look at what is actually being done towards decarbonisation which I'm this country is a great deal. If you have any real or practical ideas to discuss then I'm happy to engage.

[leicsmac]

11 minutes ago, kenny said:

I'm not sure I understand any of what you have written but then I've never been a (word) salad fan.

 

I prefer to look at what is actually being done towards decarbonisation which I'm this country is a great deal. If you have any real or practical ideas to discuss then I'm happy to engage.

Au contraire, I'm sure that you're smart enough to understand the points I'm making, but if you simply choose not to engage with them then it would be more honest to simply say so. I'm not prepared to be gaslit into thinking that actually looking at this from a viewpoint that takes into account both global and long term outcomes is somehow abstract or difficult to grasp. Not when it's both rather easy to understand and critically important.

 

But with respect to the mechanics of the solution, a suite of renewable tailored to location and fission generation is likely called for. How that is applied is one for the logistics staff, but it does need to be done.