General News Thread

[DJW1]

45 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

That's what a bigot would say. No offence

I am just kidding.

 

Don't agree mind you. I would say that almost everyone has maybe a weariness of certain types of people, but to say all people dislike everyone who is different (a bigot) is just not true. The world just wouldn't function and the reason for this is...

 

Everyone is different.

 

And the realisation of this is the fundamental basis of tolerance.

 

I've never understood why I should be the same as anyone else and I've never wanted anyone to be like me. I mean... how boring would that be?

 

I can´t be a bigot, I read the Guardian (and I pay for it!) 

 

I think I said (I haven´t checked) that it is natural for people to dislike/mistrust people who are different from them, the reason being that (biologically) they are a seen as a threat (they could kill us, steal our food, etc.). This is a genetic, hereditary thing that can manifest itself today as racism/anti-immigration sentiments.

 

The more different someone is then the more we dislike/mistrust them. For example, the people trying to get into the USA via Mexico are almost all poor, Catholic, and don´t speak English. That is why, in my opinion, Trump and his cronies, dislike them so much.

 

On Foxes Talk we have people saying they hate Forest/Derby/Cov. Calm down!

 

[Finnegan]

5 hours ago, DJW1 said:

Everyone is naturally bigoted

 

No. They aren't. 

 

Everyone has prejudices, that's not the same thing. 

 

[leicsmac]

10 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

No. They aren't. 

 

Everyone has prejudices, that's not the same thing. 

 

And even if they are, such tribal bigotry simply isn't a long term survival strategy for our species. Which means it's something we'd need to overcome anyway. 

[Parafox]

1 hour ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

That's what a bigot would say. No offence

I am just kidding.

 

Don't agree mind you. I would say that almost everyone has maybe a weariness of certain types of people, but to say all people dislike everyone who is different (a bigot) is just not true. The world just wouldn't function and the reason for this is...

 

Everyone is different.

 

And the realisation of this is the fundamental basis of tolerance.

 

I've never understood why I should be the same as anyone else and I've never wanted anyone to be like me. I mean... how boring would that be?

 

Could've been said by Winston Smith, 1984.

[lcfcell]

I’ve always been what you’d call “woke” I just want people to be happy and live how they want to be. But like others have said for whatever reason people go insane when debating immigration. 
 

I don’t hate Muslims, I don’t hate brown people but people get weird when you say you’re uncomfortable with men entering the country that we frankly know nothing about. You don’t have to be a reform voter to feel that way. I’ll never vote for them. 

[leicsmac]

Each demographic of humans is different, with differences that other groups might not know about, and that's not in any way problematic by itself - if anything, it's a benefit. 

 

The problem is when uncertainty about that gives way to suspicion, followed by enmity and then hostility - or worse, supremacist thought and action based on the same. 

 

Communication, interaction , knowledge sharing and understanding between groups is the answer to that, not gated and fenced enclaves by demographic. 

 

At the end of the day, we all have more in common that not, and the divides we put up between each other are mostly of our own making and simply don't have to exist.

[Trav Le Bleu]

1 hour ago, DJW1 said:

I can´t be a bigot, I read the Guardian (and I pay for it!) 

 

I think I said (I haven´t checked) that it is natural for people to dislike/mistrust people who are different from them, the reason being that (biologically) they are a seen as a threat (they could kill us, steal our food, etc.). This is a genetic, hereditary thing that can manifest itself today as racism/anti-immigration sentiments.

 

The more different someone is then the more we dislike/mistrust them. For example, the people trying to get into the USA via Mexico are almost all poor, Catholic, and don´t speak English. That is why, in my opinion, Trump and his cronies, dislike them so much.

 

On Foxes Talk we have people saying they hate Forest/Derby/Cov. Calm down!

 

But if Americans are so different, why are Mexicans attracted there?

 

To be human is to not be an animal. When someone acts like an animal, we call it inhumane. 

 

Too many people think we're just educated apes, so that's an excuse to act like that, when the truth is apes wouldn't even act like that.

 

Like The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy says,

 

"Humans think they are smarter than dolphins because we build cars and buildings and start wars etc., and all that dolphins do is swim in the water, eat fish and play around. Dolphins believe that they are smarter - for exactly the same reasons." 

[Trav Le Bleu]

43 minutes ago, Parafox said:

Could've been said by Winston Smith, 1984.

Not by the end.

 

Ooops, spoilers!

[Trav Le Bleu]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

No. They aren't. 

 

Everyone has prejudices, that's not the same thing. 

 

 

55 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

And even if they are, such tribal bigotry simply isn't a long term survival strategy for our species. Which means it's something we'd need to overcome anyway. 

 

 

 

[leicsmac]

12 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

But if Americans are so different, why are Mexicans attracted there?

 

To be human is to not be an animal. When someone acts like an animal, we call it inhumane. 

 

Too many people think we're just educated apes, so that's an excuse to act like that, when the truth is apes wouldn't even act like that.

 

Like The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy says,

 

"Humans think they are smarter than dolphins because we build cars and buildings and start wars etc., and all that dolphins do is swim in the water, eat fish and play around. Dolphins believe that they are smarter - for exactly the same reasons." 

Exactly. 

 

Appeals to Nature are so logically and morally flawed. Botulism toxin, the fish with spines that swims into a human urethra and extinction are all natural. 

 

As a supposedly intelligent species, we should be demonstrating that intelligence by both knowing and doing better. 

[Lionator]

3 hours ago, filthyfox said:

Seriously...  there HAVE to be some jobs the asylum seekers that have travelled through at least 5 other "safe" countries to get here could do?

 

And i mean FOR FREE while you and i pay for their living and food expenses.

 

Ps- i also do not believe minimum wage (MW) should exist.  Market forces and freedom of choice should decide what an employer pays.  MW is tge way to disaster.

Minimum wage is essentially a human right, would you defend someone getting paid 1p per hour if the market forces push them that way? The minimum wage is far too low if anything. 

[Lionator]

1 hour ago, lcfcell said:

I’ve always been what you’d call “woke” I just want people to be happy and live how they want to be. But like others have said for whatever reason people go insane when debating immigration. 
 

I don’t hate Muslims, I don’t hate brown people but people get weird when you say you’re uncomfortable with men entering the country that we frankly know nothing about. You don’t have to be a reform voter to feel that way. I’ll never vote for them. 

There is an asylum system, which is massively oversubscribed too. You can turn down claims which will ultimately mean somebody is an illegal migrant and should be deported, but that still doesn’t mitigate them being here in the first place. There’s nothing that Reform will be able to do regarding that anyway. If they want to set up internment camps then go ahead but good luck finding people to work in them and good luck having the legal ability to do it. 

[filthyfox]

26 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Minimum wage is essentially a human right, would you defend someone getting paid 1p per hour if the market forces push them that way? The minimum wage is far too low if anything. 

If they wanted to work for 1p per hour...  thats up to them, right?

 

That's part of the point- costs are so high BECAUSE of minimum wage.

Edited 13 May by filthyfox

[RowlattsFox]

Madness that 3 young girls found dead on Brighton beach doesn't even get a mention anymore. 

Couldn't even imagine getting that phone call as a parent. So sad. 

[Foxdiamond]

17 minutes ago, filthyfox said:

If they wanted to work for 1p per hour...  thats up to them, right?

 

That's part of the point- costs are so high BECAUSE of minimum wage.

A good description of exploitation?

[Trav Le Bleu]

53 minutes ago, filthyfox said:

If they wanted to work for 1p per hour...  thats up to them, right?

 

That's part of the point- costs are so high BECAUSE of minimum wage.

No, costs are so high because billionaires, instead of absorbing the cost, pass it on to their customers.

 

And trust me, there's plenty of people working for less than minimum wage one way or another.

[Trav Le Bleu]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

There is an asylum system, which is massively oversubscribed too. You can turn down claims which will ultimately mean somebody is an illegal migrant and should be deported, but that still doesn’t mitigate them being here in the first place. There’s nothing that Reform will be able to do regarding that anyway. If they want to set up internment camps then go ahead but good luck finding people to work in them and good luck having the legal ability to do it. 

Short of literally killing people, they'll struggle to reduce numbers.

 

Weirdly no one ever seems to want to tackle the causes of mass immigration. And no, I don't mean our welfare system.

[filthyfox]

1 minute ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

No, costs are so high because billionaires, instead of absorbing the cost, pass it on to their customers.

 

And trust me, there's plenty of people working for less than minimum wage one way or another.

Self-employed people are most likely to work for less 

Example being, i couldnt possibly even think of starting a crafting business and sell my goods at a price that equals minimum wage!- im better off working behind a bar, or stacking shelves.

[Trav Le Bleu]

1 minute ago, filthyfox said:

Self-employed people are most likely to work for less 

Example being, i couldnt possibly even think of starting a crafting business and sell my goods at a price that equals minimum wage!- im better off working behind a bar, or stacking shelves.

You will find in places some of these will work extra unpaid hours to keep their jobs. Then there's the cash in hand places that have immigrants shipped over for just the purpose of paying someone who will accept a crap wage.

 

Making crap wages legal would only increase that.

[CornwallFox]

2 hours ago, filthyfox said:

If they wanted to work for 1p per hour...  thats up to them, right?

 

That's part of the point- costs are so high BECAUSE of minimum wage.

Rubbish. 

 

Costs are high because shareholder value is legally what CEOs are appointed to maximise. That means maximising profit by keeping wages low, increasing prices, reducing quality. Things we see across the board. 

 

If you get paid minimum wage with a family, it is highly likely the state is paying you benefits to subsidise your wages not being enough to live on, even if you work full time. 

 

Work used to pay enough to live on. It no longer does. Minimum wage is an attempt to at least force some degree of sensibility to wages. Without it wages would be even lower. 

 

Wages is only one aspect of cost. If wages go up 10% that is not the same as costs rising by 10%. 

[CornwallFox]

2 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Short of literally killing people, they'll struggle to reduce numbers.

 

Weirdly no one ever seems to want to tackle the causes of mass immigration. And no, I don't mean our welfare system.

Numbers are falling quite rapidly. The solution being used is pretty simple and has come from America - lines of bouys that make it difficult to make it to the sea. France has used them across waterways leading to the sea. Belgium, were many boats now enter before heading into french waters, are now looking at doing the same to stop movement so south. This is coupled with different tactics by French police. Labour's work with European governments is making a difference. Just a bloody shame they're apparently unable to communicate this to the electorate. 

[LCFCCHRIS]

The extra level of exploitation that would go on with no minimum wage is crazy. My last job before my current one was incredibly physically demanding and they were crying about the minimum wage increase as it will hurt their business, and then took away the annual bonus in response (500 quid or something, nothing sensational). The worst jobs would pay £6 an hour if they took away minmum wage.

[Jon the Hat]

13 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

I mean, she might be the single least effective party leader of any major party in my lifetime tbh and that includes Liz Truss. She can sit the **** down.

She has had a slow start for sure, but that is not necessarily a bad thing, she keeps getting better with her messaging she might peak at the right moment.  I would prefer her to completely rule out any sort of deal with Reform, but I think she cannot do that until a bit closer to the election, in order to avoid pushing another tranche of right of the party MPs to move.  

[Jon the Hat]

4 hours ago, CornwallFox said:

Costs are high because shareholder value is legally what CEOs are appointed to maximise. That means maximising profit by keeping wages low, increasing prices, reducing quality. Things we see across the board. 

That is one way of maximising shareholder value.  Not even the most common one to be honest, partly because the share market is generally well informed and looking beyond the immediate reporting period to the value a business provides, and partly because poor wages generally don't deliver happy people, and happy people don't deliver quality product. 

[Lionator]

No minimum wage would also mean more people emigrating here and being happy to work for pittance because it’s more than they’d earn at home.

 

A lefty view of course but all of our problems can be traced back to giving too much power to the ‘free market’, the policies of Thatcher and then the insane decision of new labour to allow the Bank of England to set interest rates, not the government of the day.