General News Thread

[CornwallFox]

4 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

We hate the French more than we hate the Germans ! 
it’s bizarre 

There is something about being British which seems to mean we have to basically hate everybody else

[FoxesDeb]

1 minute ago, CornwallFox said:

There is something about being British which seems to mean we have to basically hate everybody else

It's bizarre. The Euro and the Schengen area are wonderful things, yet the Brits don't seem to want either. Many don't seem to realise they have lost freedom of movement since Brexit either, given the number of posts I see on the Facebook page where I live from people asking about moving over and finding work, it just isn't really possible any more.

[bovril]

2 minutes ago, CornwallFox said:

There is something about being British which seems to mean we have to basically hate everybody else

Specifically being English, specifically hating everyone else that doesn't speak English.

[bovril]

Just now, FoxesDeb said:

It's bizarre. The Euro and the Schengen area are wonderful things, yet the Brits don't seem to want either. Many don't seem to realise they have lost freedom of movement since Brexit either, given the number of posts I see on the Facebook page where I live from people asking about moving over and finding work, it just isn't really possible any more.

Makes me laugh when  the English say we've "stopped freedom of movement". That's news to anyone who holds an EU passport...

[FoxesDeb]

6 minutes ago, bovril said:

Makes me laugh when  the English say we've "stopped freedom of movement". That's news to anyone who holds an EU passport...

Yeah, literally the only people they've stopped it for is themselves, but sadly many still don't understand the implications of it and still think they can rock up in Spain or wherever with their 2 children and start work as a lorry driver the next day

[leicsmac]

16 minutes ago, bovril said:

The conservative case for a united Europe is probably better than a liberal one. The EU is a tool that Europeans can use in whatever way they choose and makes it more likely that European culture and values will be preserved. European conservatives have realised this since late last decade, which is why they generally now favour staying in and influencing EU policy on things like immigration, instead of leaving it.

 

English conservatives never understood this because they are generally Europhobic and still hung up on the US and the Commonwealth. They also grew up in a time when the UK was able to project its power quite successfully. However I think they are slowly realizing both that those two worlds - the US and commonwealth countries like India - are less natural allies to us than they thought and also that being out of the EU doesn't protect us against the forces of globalisation they understandably dislike - it makes us more vulnerable to them. 

This is astute imo.

 

Adaptation applies to nations and peoples, as well as species. Those who don't adapt and look back more than forward,  don't tend to fare well. 

[bovril]

2 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

This is astute imo.

 

Adaptation applies to nations and peoples, as well as species. Those who don't adapt and look back more than forward,  don't tend to fare well. 

The 'trade deals with India' stuff and the nostalgia for commonwealth migration over European was a great example of this. Because a lot of English conservatives viewed places like India as both subservient and naturally Anglophile. Although that's not only a problem with looking back, it's a problem at looking back at what you want to see. 

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, bovril said:

The 'trade deals with India' stuff and the nostalgia for commonwealth migration over European was a great example of this. Because a lot of English conservatives viewed places like India as both subservient and naturally Anglophile. Although that's not only a problem with looking back, it's a problem at looking back at what you want to see. 

Nail on head. 

 

Inaccurate viewing of the past is, imo, directly or indirectly at least in part responsible for a great many troubles we face today as a species. 

[Parafox]

7 hours ago, The Bear said:

My first question is - "for how long?"

As long as it takes the brain to use up any residual oxygen

 

6 hours ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

On the radio they suggested several minutes!

We don't know but it's possible. But you'll still die. See above.

2 hours ago, foxy tiler said:

Fascinating stuff .....when we die is that it or do we move onto another plane of consciousness. Find out (or not) at some point.

Unfortunately there's no proper scientifically proven way of knowing this either way.

 

Just myth and fantasy so far.

Edited 15 February by Parafox

[Parafox]

58 minutes ago, CornwallFox said:

There is something about being British which seems to mean we have to basically hate everybody else

Because everybody else hates us?

 

We're isolationists and some still believe we rule the waves.

[Parafox]

53 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

Yeah, literally the only people they've stopped it for is themselves, but sadly many still don't understand the implications of it and still think they can rock up in Spain or wherever with their 2 children and start work as a lorry driver the next day

Isn't that what Brits believe to be the case with most Eastern European migrants coming to the UK?

 

 

 

 

Edited 15 February by Parafox

[Free Falling Foxes]

35 minutes ago, Parafox said:

As long as it takes the brain to use up any residual oxygen

 

We don't know but it's possible. But you'll still die. See above.

Unfortunately there's no proper scientifically proven way of knowing this either way.

 

Just myth and fantasy so far.

A friend of mine 'died' for several minutes. Fortunately, the skill of a passing off duty paramedic and the ambulance that arrived shortly afterwards, saved him.

I asked him some time later, if he saw any bright lights, welcoming angels or had any out of body experience.

No, was his emphatic response.

 

I think it may be possible however, that for some people as they approach death, the mind may give them comforting thoughts, even visions.

In my own mothers case, just before she died, she pointed to a blank wall and said,  could you open that door.

I said, you open it Mam. Shortly afterwards she died. 

Edited 15 February by Free Falling Foxes

[Sampson]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

We hate the French more than we hate the Germans ! 
it’s bizarre 

We hate the Scots, Irish and Welsh too - Londoners and non-Londeners hate each other and constantly complain about each other. Then we united as a country, but we still kept our unique cultures and maintain a friendly rivalry with devolved powers, then most of 1 of those countries got independence - part of modern day France (Brittany) also used to be part of England… Bavarians also hate Prussians and Austrians. Venetians hated those from Piedmont-Sardinia  - national borders in Europe have change historically all the time. If you lived to 100 years in Europe at any point over the past 1,000 years, you’re probably in the minority (or Portuguese) if you’re national borders haven’t changed with people you were supposedly previously cynical of.

 

This is what I find weird about our opposition to the EU, given the UK itself is a federation of countries and cultures with devolved governments.

Edited 15 February by Sampson

[CornwallFox]

46 minutes ago, Parafox said:

Because everybody else hates us?

 

We're isolationists and some still believe we rule the waves.

I don't think anybody hates us

But yeah second bit sounds about right

[bovril]

26 minutes ago, Sampson said:

This is what I find weird about our opposition to the EU, given the UK itself is a federation of countries and cultures with devolved governments.

That's precisely the reason for much of the opposition to the EU. The English are in charge of the UK, which is the way it should be for them. That's why they always found it hard to accept Ireland being part of the EU. 

[Sampson]

I wouldn’t say we’re isolationists at all.
 

I think bovrik had it right though - some still romanticise too much of the commonwealth and the empire and so see the US as our “baby” - that’s what a lot of the Leave campaign focused on and that’s what Farage still focuses on in the way he romanticises the US even over the UK in many places. But we’re not in that world anymore countries like the US and India have long since stopped caring about us and are actively hostile to us these days.

[Robo61]

1 hour ago, bovril said:

Makes me laugh when  the English say we've "stopped freedom of movement". That's news to anyone who holds an EU passport...

Yes, we've reduced them from being able to freely access one country, leaving them with access to 27.  Whilst we've stopped UK passport holders having access to 27 and left them with 1.  Completly nuts isn't it.

[bovril]

7 minutes ago, Sampson said:

I wouldn’t say we’re isolationists at all.
 

I think bovrik had it right though - some still romanticise too much of the commonwealth and the empire and so see the US as our “baby” - that’s what a lot of the Leave campaign focused on and that’s what Farage still focuses on in the way he romanticises the US even over the UK in many places. But we’re not in that world anymore countries like the US and India have long since stopped caring about us and are actively hostile to us these days.

I remember Farage in the run up to Brexit saying he preferred Indian migrants because they speak English and "understand common law". Which he's perfectly entitled to think of course, but it's a good example of the commonwealth fetish and he seems to keep it quiet now. 

[Sampson]

7 minutes ago, Robo61 said:

Yes, we've reduced them from being able to freely access one country, leaving them with access to 27.  Whilst we've stopped UK passport holders having access to 27 and left them with 1.  Completly nuts isn't it.

Completely agree with you, but couldn’t resist the pedantry of technically 2 tbf, as you can still live in Ireland on a UK passport and Irish passport holders can still live in the UK.

[Robo61]

3 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Completely agree with you, but couldn’t resist the pedantry of technically 2 tbf, as you can still live in Ireland on a UK passport and Irish passport holders can still live in the UK.

Must admit I wasn't aware if that, I had thought the common travel area only applied to those from Northern Ireland and Irish passport holders wishing to travel/work in NI. 

[Sampson]

17 minutes ago, Robo61 said:

Must admit I wasn't aware if that, I had thought the common travel area only applied to those from Northern Ireland and Irish passport holders wishing to travel/work in NI. 

I think there’d be way too much uproar and families broken up for even Boris or Farage to ever dare touch the common travel area and not allow British and Irish people to live in each other countries. Something like 1/3 of people from England, Wales and Scotland have at least one Irish parent or grandparent, and that’s before you even mention the hard-fought peace in Northern Ireland.

 

Apropos the EU, I’ve actually seen a couple of articles of how quite a few British-EU families have ended up moving to Ireland together after they either couldn’t get or couldn’t bare the hassle or months or years long waiting times to get visas to live in each other’s country. Kind of a weird quirk of the whole thing.

Edited 15 February by Sampson

[Trav Le Bleu]

3 hours ago, bovril said:

Specifically being English, specifically hating everyone else that doesn't speak English.

Scousers?

[Trav Le Bleu]

1 hour ago, Sampson said:

I wouldn’t say we’re isolationists at all.
 

I think bovrik had it right though - some still romanticise too much of the commonwealth and the empire and so see the US as our “baby” - that’s what a lot of the Leave campaign focused on and that’s what Farage still focuses on in the way he romanticises the US even over the UK in many places. But we’re not in that world anymore countries like the US and India have long since stopped caring about us and are actively hostile to us these days.

They were actively hostile to us in 1775 and 1812.

 

In fact, we've been at war with them more recently than France, I think. So it's bizarre that we love America but hate France.

[bovril]

Francophobia is the English conservative's great blind spot. They are our most natural ally and much of what we like to admire about our country has been influenced or directly come from within what is now France or from a French speaking elite.

Edited 15 February by bovril

[Foxdiamond]

1 hour ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

They were actively hostile to us in 1775 and 1812.

 

In fact, we've been at war with them more recently than France, I think. So it's bizarre that we love America but hate France.

The War of 1812 ended before the Battle of Waterloo on 18 June 1815 against Napoleon. As for being isolationist there are some that think we should have stood aside and let Germany march through Belgium in 1914.