If my Nan had wheels, she’d have been a bike…

[South Shire Fox]

25 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

Couldn't disagree more! Going in at half time 3-1 up would have knocked the stuffing out of Everton. The ground was buzzing when we went 2-1 up. It would have released massive pressure and I'm sure that we'd have won that game.

 

The save gave them impetus and they came out for the second half like a different team. The whole game swung on that moment.

 

With how things transpired after. We'd have gone into the last game of the season knowing we only needed a point to stay up. 

Dont believe that at all. We’d of sat back and invited pressure on like we did always do and bottled it. We crumbled at any sort of pressure throughout the season. Just like the Brentford game where we were 2-0 up and then hanging on for the draw by the end. We wouldnt suddenly have found the strength to be a solid team who had a back bone because we were 2 goals up. 

Edited 15 May by South Shire Fox

[Finnegan]

5 minutes ago, CornwallFox said:

I think this is nonsense. 

Rodgers did a fantastic job for 2/3 years, then when he wasn't allowed to refresh the squad he threw his toys out the pram which ended in disaster. 

But I'm not a fan of pretending he didn't do a phenomenal job for a couple of years. 

 

Rodgers did a decent job coaching the match day squad, yes. But it's become abundantly clear in hindsight that he wasn't doing the job of a modern head coach but ultimately of an old school, conventional manager. He was doing the job Rudkin should have been while JR was busy delegating it all. 

 

It's Rodgers that sees us inflate the wage bill and spend unchecked on players with minimal upwards trajectory (Fofana aside) to match his philosophy of rehabilitating "broken" players. 

 

As much as Rodgers might have been a decent coach he was an absolutely awful manager, we just didn't really see the full iceberg until after he'd gone. 

 

[CornwallFox]

7 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Rodgers did a decent job coaching the match day squad, yes. But it's become abundantly clear in hindsight that he wasn't doing the job of a modern head coach but ultimately of an old school, conventional manager. He was doing the job Rudkin should have been while JR was busy delegating it all. 

 

It's Rodgers that sees us inflate the wage bill and spend unchecked on players with minimal upwards trajectory (Fofana aside) to match his philosophy of rehabilitating "broken" players. 

 

As much as Rodgers might have been a decent coach he was an absolutely awful manager, we just didn't really see the full iceberg until after he'd gone. 

 

I would counter that Rodgers' job was to advocate for squad improvement, and to look to do what he felt would push us forwards. A manager is supposed to want to spend as much as possible. 

The role of other senior managers (directors of football, finance and CEO) are to count the beans and either sign off on spend or provide limitations. It's not the manager's job to decide what we can spend under FFP. 

[Mickyblueeyes]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

Rodgers did a decent job coaching the match day squad, yes. But it's become abundantly clear in hindsight that he wasn't doing the job of a modern head coach but ultimately of an old school, conventional manager. He was doing the job Rudkin should have been while JR was busy delegating it all. 

 

It's Rodgers that sees us inflate the wage bill and spend unchecked on players with minimal upwards trajectory (Fofana aside) to match his philosophy of rehabilitating "broken" players. 

 

As much as Rodgers might have been a decent coach he was an absolutely awful manager, we just didn't really see the full iceberg until after he'd gone. 

 

You’re right. The biggest problem I think with why it wasn’t apparent is that Rodgers arrived here in a really unusual position. How many times does a manager arrive at a club where the squad is the strongest it has ever been. Think about it. Usually a new manager arrives and there is need or expectation for a refresh. 
 

You could use Taylor here as an example but the difference was, he took over an aging squad from Martin. 
 

Rodgers literally walked into a squad of young players or players just about to hit their peak plus Vardy. Ndidi, Tielemans, Maddison, Barnes, Soyuncu, Evans, Ricardo, Chilwell - all stars. 
 

It’s testament to puel and Macia and their squad building. There is probably one player signed during Rodgers period on par with that lot. Fofana. Castagne in the ok bracket. Every other one either a disaster or uninspiring.  We ended Rodgers spell with Danny Ward in goal and Amartey as a first choice centre back. That’s a manager of 3 plus years. Horrendous. 
 

and we didn’t help ourselves. Rudkin sat in his office coasting. Allowing Congerton a man who agreed with everything Rodgers did to come in. No background checks, no characters, no change in tactics - all a load of more cash would’ve done is have us signing more duds. 
 

It also highlights Rudkins stupidity. He worked with Walsh and Macia in his time here. On paper true squad builders - he’s picked up nothing. That’s either stupidity or laziness or both.

Edited 15 May by Mickyblueeyes

[Dan]

36 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Exactly my thoughts and I was going to post the same thing.

 

We have spent lots of money on rubbish players who have contributed nothing to the club - Daka, Vestergaard, Ayew, Skipp, Faes, etc - aside from big transfer fees and big wages. There would have been more players like this had we got more money.

There is a world that the CL money and what comes with it does actually net us better players by default. For an agent driven recruitment club we would possibly have had better options that kept the whole thing going a bit longer. But these poor processes were always catching up with us eventually and now they're leaving us for dead.

 

I mean look at Maresca. That was nothing to do with us. That was their camp - we fell so quickly from a strong position in the PL to the Championship that we just happened to be a perfect opportunity for someone like that.

[Dan]

Rodgers is a complete phoney. His ultimate strength lies in sensing when a club is on an upwards trajectory and then kicking off when he makes a mess of it. If only he was as good at identifying potential signings as he is at identifying which clubs are on the up.

[21st Century Fox]

Another go at the Champions League would probably have been the worst thing to happen to us then. It would have given Top, Rudkin and Rodgers the delusions of being a permanent CL club and spent accordingly. We’d have become even more unsustainable and then be one bad league finish off from an even greater financial apocalypse.

[Bert]

2 hours ago, AKCJ said:

The obvious one is the Maddison penalty.

 

Or had Everton not won their points appeal. 

Edited 15 May by Bert

[Gazza M]

Rodgers was a Top and Rudkin dream. They could just sit back and watch him run the show like an old school manager scenario. That is why they were slow getting rid when going wrong. 

 

The FA cup win was great, but should have guided us to Champs League twice. We may have got Emry in charge instead of Dean Smith 3 months too late with that status. 

[AKCJ]

1 hour ago, South Shire Fox said:

Dont believe that at all. We’d of sat back and invited pressure on like we did always do and bottled it. We crumbled at any sort of pressure throughout the season. Just like the Brentford game where we were 2-0 up and then hanging on for the draw by the end. We wouldnt suddenly have found the strength to be a solid team who had a back bone because we were 2 goals up. 

Again, I disagree.

 

I don't think it's a case of suddenly finding backbone, more that we had momentum.

 

We beat Wolves, drew at Elland Road and could then have been 3-1 up against Everton at home.

 

I don't think we get relegated from that position. I think not beating Everton knocked us for 6 and gave Everton massive confidence and we saw that by Everton hammering Brighton after we got dicked by Fulham a few days later.

 

Momentum is massive and we would have had it if we went in 3-1 up at half time against Everton. That penalty took all the momentum away from us and handed it on a little satin pillow to Sean Dyche and he ran with it.

 

Winning that game would have put us 15th and 4 points clear of Everton. Plus Everton would have been on a run of 3 points from a possible 21. They were bang out of form and going down.

[LCFCCKEANO]

More recent but I’d have Daka’s penalty at Watford. If we score that and got another win over the line I think heads go up and the atmosphere turns a bit less, and we probably survive

[LCFCCKEANO]

4 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

Again, I disagree.

 

I don't think it's a case of suddenly finding backbone, more that we had momentum.

 

We beat Wolves, drew at Elland Road and could then have been 3-1 up against Everton at home.

 

I don't think we get relegated from that position. I think not beating Everton knocked us for 6 and gave Everton massive confidence and we saw that by Everton hammering Brighton after we got dicked by Fulham a few days later.

 

Momentum is massive and we would have had it if we went in 3-1 up at half time against Everton. That penalty took all the momentum away from us and handed it on a little satin pillow to Sean Dyche and he ran with it.

 

Winning that game would have put us 15th and 4 points clear of Everton. Plus Everton would have been on a run of 3 points from a possible 21. They were bang out of form and going down.

Agree with this, we have a habit of breaking other teams bad habits lately. Think with that squad any momentum probably kept us up

[Finnegan]

1 hour ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

You’re right. The biggest problem I think with why it wasn’t apparent is that Rodgers arrived here in a really unusual position. How many times does a manager arrive at a club where the squad is the strongest it has ever been. Think about it. Usually a new manager arrives and there is need or expectation for a refresh. 
 

You could use Taylor here as an example but the difference was, he took over an aging squad from Martin. 
 

Rodgers literally walked into a squad of young players or players just about to hit their peak plus Vardy. Ndidi, Tielemans, Maddison, Barnes, Soyuncu, Evans, Ricardo, Chilwell - all stars. 
 

It’s testament to puel and Marcia and their squad building. There is probably one player signed during Rodgers period on par with that lot. Fofana. Castagne in the ok bracket. Every other one either a disaster or uninspiring.  We ended Rodgers spell with Danny Ward in goal and Amartey as a first choice centre back. That’s a manager of 3 plus years. Horrendous. 
 

and we didn’t help ourselves. Rudkin sat in his office coasting. Allowing Congerton and man who agreed with everything Rodgers do to come in. No background checks, no characters, no change in tactics - all a load of more cash would’ve done is have us signing more duds. 
 

It also highlights Rudkins stupidity. He worked with Walsh and Macia in his time here. On paper true squad builders - he’s picked up nothing. That’s either stupidity or laziness or both.

 

Absolutely spot on. 

 

1 hour ago, CornwallFox said:

I would counter that Rodgers' job was to advocate for squad improvement, and to look to do what he felt would push us forwards. A manager is supposed to want to spend as much as possible. 

The role of other senior managers (directors of football, finance and CEO) are to count the beans and either sign off on spend or provide limitations. It's not the manager's job to decide what we can spend under FFP. 

 

I feel that you think I'm defending the club, Top or Rudkin. I'm not absolving them. I just don't think it's them out there dictating transfer policy. They absolutely should have reigned Rodgers in in the same that John Henry did. They didn't. 

 

They're culpable of course they just committed other sins. 

 

[AjcW]

35 minutes ago, Gazza M said:

Rodgers was a Top and Rudkin dream. They could just sit back and watch him run the show like an old school manager scenario. That is why they were slow getting rid when going wrong. 

 

The FA cup win was great, but should have guided us to Champs League twice. We may have got Emry in charge instead of Dean Smith 3 months too late with that status. 

It's mentioned a lot but we never would have got Emery in. He comes with Monchi (well not now but did), it was a none negotiable and we've had managers try that since and been told to **** off because of lord Rudkin.

[Mickyblueeyes]

22 minutes ago, AjcW said:

It's mentioned a lot but we never would have got Emery in. He comes with Monchi (well not now but did), it was a none negotiable and we've had managers try that since and been told to **** off because of lord Rudkin.

Monchi’s interview here. Hello, I hear you’re one of the most sought after DOFs in world football. You’ll be reporting into Jon Rudkin. 
 

Jon: I like yellow. 
 

Monchi: ***********

[South Shire Fox]

48 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

Again, I disagree.

 

I don't think it's a case of suddenly finding backbone, more that we had momentum.

 

We beat Wolves, drew at Elland Road and could then have been 3-1 up against Everton at home.

 

I don't think we get relegated from that position. I think not beating Everton knocked us for 6 and gave Everton massive confidence and we saw that by Everton hammering Brighton after we got dicked by Fulham a few days later.

 

Momentum is massive and we would have had it if we went in 3-1 up at half time against Everton. That penalty took all the momentum away from us and handed it on a little satin pillow to Sean Dyche and he ran with it.

 

Winning that game would have put us 15th and 4 points clear of Everton. Plus Everton would have been on a run of 3 points from a possible 21. They were bang out of form and going down.

Everton were the better team over the course of that game. They werent just going to disappear that night because they were 2 goals down. Iversen made 2 or 3 worldies to keep us in it that night and they also missed a sitter. We also hadnt kept a clean sheet in 19 games before that showing how dodgy our defence was. Bottling is in our recent dna

[FoxinNotts]

If Castagne had scored that one shot on target against Newcastle in the heroic 'Souttar' nil-nil draw at St. James' Park, we would have stayed up

[AjcW]

29 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

Monchi’s interview here. Hello, I hear you’re one of the most sought after DOFs in world football. You’ll be reporting into Jon Rudkin. 
 

Jon: I like yellow. 
 

Monchi: ***********

"I like yellow" has done me  

[AKCJ]

30 minutes ago, South Shire Fox said:

Everton were the better team over the course of that game. They werent just going to disappear that night because they were 2 goals down. Iversen made 2 or 3 worldies to keep us in it that night and they also missed a sitter. We also hadnt kept a clean sheet in 19 games before that showing how dodgy our defence was. Bottling is in our recent dna

They didn't manage to score twice as it was though.

 

They scored one more goal in that second half. Meaning if we'd scored the penalty we would have won that game.

[_Fatboyslow_]

And what makes u think she wasn't a bike lmho

[OntarioFox]

3 hours ago, Dan said:

I don't think our slide would've been quite as stark because Rodgers would've had less credit in the bank in the 2022/23 farce. But then maybe I'm wrong, because Aiyawatt and Rudkin seemed to be extremely blinded by him, and how useless they've been since Rodgers left tells me they knew they were a level below him.

 

We should never want to trade it. I dislike the majority of those involved in it, which is sad, but these things last forever. I saw an argument the other day that a Tottenham fan would actually take relegation to stop Arsenal winning the league, which seems mad, but they made the case that Arsenal's title is in the record books forever. Being relegated is something that can be rectified in 12 months.

 

Trophies should be prioritised. If they aren't then the entire thing is bogus as far as I'm concerned. Prioritising qualifying for a competition you probably won't win is a plague on the game, but it's financially motivated and many in the game now are of this persuasion.

Well that's where he's dead, dead wrong. Spurs going down is something the football world as a whole will never, ever let them live down even if they claw their way back at the first time of asking.

 

We live in the permanently online banter era and them - a Greedy Six proponent of the breakaway league - going down is the second biggest thing to happen in the Premier League era behind... well, us winning it. People won't forget. It'll be something they get the piss taken out of them on the terraces forevermore. Think 'third in a two horse race' on steroids, from every club.

 

'Who went down from a six team league?' Tottenham f***ing Hotspur' 

[Miella27]

4 hours ago, BKLFox said:

A what if I talked about with mates the other day was .. what if we hired Lennon instead of Ranieri which was quite a strong possibility at the time would we have done the 5000/1

 

I’d suggest not even if we had the same tactics just because of their personalities, Ranieri kept everything grounded and calm can only imagine what Lennon would have been like 😂 

I have often thought, after sacking Nige if we had gone for O’Neill, he would have an even greater God-like status here. I think he may have ruled himself out of the job at the time, he must regret that now. 
 

Even if we hadn’t have won the league, we wouldn’t know any better than staying up, so any Top 4 / 6 place finish would have seemed crazy. 
 

There are definite parallels between the squads within playing styles as well, Guppy/Albrighton, Walsh & Elliott / Huth & Morgan, Mahrez / Izzet, Lennon /Kante. O’Neill would have got a lot out of those players. 

[Dan]

1 hour ago, FoxinNotts said:

If Castagne had scored that one shot on target against Newcastle in the heroic 'Souttar' nil-nil draw at St. James' Park, we would have stayed up

We'd have simply lost to West Ham.

[HP1]

3 hours ago, South Shire Fox said:

Dont believe that at all. We’d of sat back and invited pressure on like we did always do and bottled it. We crumbled at any sort of pressure throughout the season. Just like the Brentford game where we were 2-0 up and then hanging on for the draw by the end. We wouldnt suddenly have found the strength to be a solid team who had a back bone because we were 2 goals up. 

We forfeited the 2-0 lead when Rodgers decided to make a point to the board about not making any signings that summer, by substituting MOTM KDH and only him on a stifling hot day. Brentford made all 5 subs.

 

We then lost the midfield battle and bottled the 2 nil lead in the last 10 minutes. This set the precedent for the rest of the season. Win that game then confidence begets confidence and more results and we are nowhere near the relegation battle.

 

In summary, Rodgers ego and arrogance got us relegated.

Edited 15 May by HP1

[South Shire Fox]

1 hour ago, AKCJ said:

They didn't manage to score twice as it was though.

 

They scored one more goal in that second half. Meaning if we'd scored the penalty we would have won that game.

Football doesnt work like that 😂. When they are level they arent going all out as they had something to hold on to. Would be a completley style and pattern to the game if they were chasing. They also went to Brighton and battered them the week after, we flapped it at Fulham. Two different mentalities, we cant handle pressure and demonstrated that all season.

Edited 15 May by South Shire Fox