Wes Burns (signed, official)

[Iwebema]

43 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

The positive brigade and the negative nay sayers both have valid points, always have always will. I'm in the latter but wasn't always, the club have driven me here and it is what it is. I still get overly delusional every pre-season when our academy players are a breath of fresh air and then they either get neglected or show they aren't ready and i'm back in my box.

 

But in defence of folk mentally scarred by how appalling we've been ran in the last 3-4 years that get triggered when they see us operating similarly just a rung down, e.g your Coady and Winks at £60k + a week in the Championship at 3 times the average salary vs Chaplin, Cullen and Burns at £15-20k a week vs the average £6-8k and it's easy to swim in toxicity once again.

 

On the other hand, if we are going to right the wrongs or see any green shoots of recovery, it's not healthy to shout down and dismiss everything in the present day because the past was so bad. Maybe we are cutting our cloth more accordingly and there is a plan and an element of trust needs to be given back to our custodians of this football club. I find that hard to write right now, I must admit. I have no faith in them but I so badly want to. The club is up for sale and hopefully everyone is pulling in the same direction to secure a more prosperous future for us.

 

 

I'm similar in terms of the negativity it is tough to just forgive and forget. For what its worth for this season I can see some positive signs! I do think Mccaron is making a bit of a difference, even if its just the speed and turn over of players that historically we've been appalling at. Whilst I do have reservations on the length of this deal, the profile for me is different, but we are going to need to see how is all plays out, I do reiterate that we are seeing some signs to be slightly positive!

 

I would also say that the club internally is still a mess, it sounds like Mccaron and RM are trying their best to get on with bringing positivity on the pitch, but internally its a mess, regardless of what Facebook etc think, the non playing staff at the club are extremely angry at Top and his cronies. I do think the sale is inevitable, but if you think about how much weve dug in over the years on transfers, the same principles will apply here aswell. 

 

Then again if we apply those principles then he will say no to every offer until administration and probably wish he'd just taken one.

[boosmanana]

Just now, AKCJ said:

We'd have given the same reviews for Marc Albrighton when he went on loan to WBA. Burns is a huge fan favourite in Ipswich, doesn't necessarily mean he's still at a high level.

He doesn't need to be at a necessarily high level to be fantastic in League One and then a squad player in the Championship if we were to get back there within his contract though does he? 

[Aleksz]

4 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

Signing a 31 year old winger who has barely played in the last 2 seasons due to an ACL is not forced negativity, it is a valid concern. Saying it is forced makes it looks like you're unwilling to keep the debate open.

 

Realistically if any of the two camps is forced between the negative one and the positive one surely it would be the latter given the state of the club and the ineptness on and off the pitch we have witnessed over the years.

 

Personally I think we have a better chance of going up next season playing Carr than Burns. Carr is one that has impressed in pre season, unlike Chaplin for example who despite being off the pace still has his place in the squad secured. Not really much more he could have done to get an opportunity.

 

I guess we'll see how the season unfolds, if we storm the league then fair enough but if we struggle again then what was the point of bringing in these older players if they can't do the business.

This is utterly crazy. I want to see the likes of Carr and the rest play plenty of football this year - and I think they will. But if you think a totally raw teenager that was playing in and around Barwell’s level 16 months ago is going to be a more consistent/reliable option to get us straight back up - something our future hinges on, then I don’t know what to tell you. 

[AKCJ]

1 minute ago, boosmanana said:

He doesn't need to be at a necessarily high level to be fantastic in League One and then a squad player in the Championship if we were to get back there within his contract though does he? 

He needs to be the same player he was 5/6 years ago and there are huge ifs, buts and maybes surrounding that because of his injuries.

 

Regardless he's on a Premier League squad player's wage so he needs to be at a high level.

[LestaLad]

3 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

We'd have given the same reviews for Marc Albrighton when he went on loan to WBA. Burns is a huge fan favourite in Ipswich, doesn't necessarily mean he's still at a high level.

I personally never would have gone to West Brom telling them that Albrighton is going to be their best player. I would put him under the BDCR/Coady bracket, great squad player, great player to have around the team. 

The fact that Ipswich fans are saying he’ll be our best player due to ability and being direct and can score goals, then that’s what I like about this signing.

[AKCJ]

1 minute ago, Aleksz said:

This is utterly crazy. I want to see the likes of Carr and the rest play plenty of football this year - and I think they will. But if you think a totally raw teenager that was playing in and around Barwell’s level 16 months ago is going to be a more consistent/reliable option to get us straight back up - something our future hinges on, then I don’t know what to tell you. 

Our future hinges on the club paying Premier League money for players that can't cut it in the Championship.

 

 

[AKCJ]

Just now, LestaLad said:

I personally never would have gone to West Brom telling them that Albrighton is going to be their best player. I would put him under the BDCR/Coady bracket, great squad player, great player to have around the team. 

The fact that Ipswich fans are saying he’ll be our best player due to ability and being direct and can score goals, then that’s what I like about this signing.

They're not saying it due to his ability. They're madly in love with him because he was a big part of the only period of minor success they have had in 30 years.

 

A better example is Lloyd Dyer. It would be like saying that Dyer is going to be fantastic for any club wanting him when we released him. Only Burns is on a much higher wage, is older and is coming off the back of a horrible injury.

[VLC86]

8 minutes ago, LestaLad said:

I personally never would have gone to West Brom telling them that Albrighton is going to be their best player. I would put him under the BDCR/Coady bracket, great squad player, great player to have around the team. 

The fact that Ipswich fans are saying he’ll be our best player due to ability and being direct and can score goals, then that’s what I like about this signing.

If he’s fit hes definitely a better signing than Chaplain. When Ipswich came up with us, he was the main player that stood out to me whenever I watched him.

[boosmanana]

12 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

He needs to be the same player he was 5/6 years ago and there are huge ifs, buts and maybes surrounding that because of his injuries.

 

Regardless he's on a Premier League squad player's wage so he needs to be at a high level.

That's also not true is it though? Because if he was at the same level he was at last season after coming back from his horror injury (Ipswich fans that watched him week in week out stating he's been better than Egeli and McAteer since returning),  he'd be at a top championship level when we're playing in League One 

Edited 6 August by boosmanana
.

[AKCJ]

3 minutes ago, boosmanana said:

That's also not true is it though? Because if he was at the same level he was at last season after coming back from his horror injury (Ipswich fans that watched him week in week out stating he's better than Egeli and McAteer, he'd be at a top championship level when we're playing in League One 

What isn't true?

[brookfox]

Bottom line is he'll definitely improve us this season and maybe as fans years 2 and 3 (if the rumours are true) aren't things we should worry too much about. Problem is I'm not sure people running the club should be taking the same attitude.

[honeybradger]

24 minutes ago, Aleksz said:

This is utterly crazy. I want to see the likes of Carr and the rest play plenty of football this year - and I think they will. But if you think a totally raw teenager that was playing in and around Barwell’s level 16 months ago is going to be a more consistent/reliable option to get us straight back up - something our future hinges on, then I don’t know what to tell you. 

So you can't actually give a reason why I'm wrong just that I'm crazy for my opinion.

 

I was called crazy for saying we should bin of Winks and Faes last summer, I was called crazy for calling out Cifuentes's approach to youth early on, I was called crazy for saying the Skipp and Okoli transfers were bad at the time, I was called crazy for saying Brendan Rodgers was eroding the mentality of our squad.

 

I have been called crazy for a lot of things on here that in hindsight were obvious and correct. Not saying I'm right about everything but the number of times I have been correct yet outright dismissed shows that the consensus opinion on foxestalk is often bollocks.

Edited 6 August by honeybradger

[boosmanana]

1 minute ago, AKCJ said:

What isn't true?

That he needs to be the same player that he was 5/6 years ago.

[AKCJ]

2 minutes ago, boosmanana said:

That he needs to be the same player that he was 5/6 years ago.

But he does?

 

Didn't pull up trees for Ipswich in the Championship or Premier League. 

[WorcesterBlue]

2 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

They're not saying it due to his ability. They're madly in love with him because he was a big part of the only period of minor success they have had in 30 years.

 

A better example is Lloyd Dyer. It would be like saying that Dyer is going to be fantastic for any club wanting him when we released him. Only Burns is on a much higher wage, is older and is coming off the back of a horrible injury.

Wes was the first choice right winger at the end of the season. Town fans were mostly happy to see him given a one year contract by the new manager. As you are aware you cant please everybody. But he was never going to be a frequent player in the PL. So if he has now been offered a longer contract where he is going to play more I can understand him taking it. 

[ScotFox1]

Anyway.. has he signed yet??

 

 

 

[Fosse93]

4 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

But he does?

 

Didn't pull up trees for Ipswich in the Championship or Premier League. 

I think if you ask any Ipswich fan - they will tell you Burns was a better player last season, than he was 5/6 years ago.

[Ryy]

1 minute ago, ScotFox1 said:

Anyway.. has he signed yet??

 

 

 

Done his ACL in the medical so we’re debating on whether we extend his contract to a 4 year instead of a 3 

[WorcesterBlue]

1 minute ago, ScotFox1 said:

Anyway.. has he signed yet??

 

 

 

Nothing on TWTD about it. Just that he has had a medical.

[boosmanana]

1 minute ago, AKCJ said:

But he does?

 

Didn't pull up trees for Ipswich in the Championship or Premier League. 

As I've stated, plenty of their supporters have stated that both before and after injury they're a better team with him on the right than either Egeli or McAteer, both of which would walk into our team currently. 

He played 35 times for Ipswich in the Enzo season where they came 2nd in the Championship, followed by a further 18 times for them in the Premier League and another 18 times last season after a bad injury where they again came 2nd, in the Championship. He's comfortably better than any Right Winger we currently have and comfortably good enough to play a part in the Championship this season never mind League One. It's just funny to criticise because he's not got an exotic name, doesn't have a fancy YT highlights video for people to fawn over and is on an enormous wage (of which the likes of Capology aren't privy to anyway 😂) 

[coolhandfox]

37 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

Signing a 31 year old winger who has barely played in the last 2 seasons due to an ACL is not forced negativity, it is a valid concern. Saying it is forced makes it looks like you're unwilling to keep the debate open.

 

Realistically if any of the two camps is forced between the negative one and the positive one surely it would be the latter given the state of the club and the ineptness on and off the pitch we have witnessed over the years.

 

Personally I think we have a better chance of going up next season playing Carr than Burns. Carr is one that has impressed in pre season, unlike Chaplin for example who despite being off the pace still has his place in the squad secured. Not really much more he could have done to get an opportunity.

 

I guess we'll see how the season unfolds, if we storm the league then fair enough but if we struggle again then what was the point of bringing in these older players if they can't do the business.

Score goals and get assists.

 

 

 

 

[Scotch]

55 minutes ago, Rubbersoul said:

Is he strictly a RW or can he play anywhere else 

From what i see online, he can play RB and is probably most suited to RWB but I can only say what I've read from the opinion of others. 

[honeybradger]

6 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Score goals and get assists.

 

 

 

 

Otchere got 3 goals and 2 assists and that clearly didn't help him. If Otchere needed to work on his all round game then surely Carr's impressive all round game should be to his benefit.

 

For me, if Wes Burns had played for us in pre season and played the same way Carr did, we would all be impressed and saying we had done a good piece of business.

 

The difference is that Carr comes with the label of being "unproven" so we look at the performances with a different lens despite them being good enough if they came from an experienced player.

[Sunbury Fox]

51 minutes ago, VLC86 said:

If he’s fit hes definitely a better signing than Chaplain. When Ipswich came up with us, he was the main player that stood out to me whenever I watched him.

Even in that season he only got 6 goals and 4 assists in a team that got 95 points. 

[brookfox]

10 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

Otchere got 3 goals and 2 assists and that clearly didn't help him. If Otchere needed to work on his all round game then surely Carr's impressive all round game should be to his benefit.

 

For me, if Wes Burns had played for us in pre season and played the same way Carr did, we would all be impressed and saying we had done a good piece of business.

 

The difference is that Carr comes with the label of being "unproven" so we look at the performances with a different lens despite them being good enough if they came from an experienced player.

Feels like there's a big difference between being able to turn it on in a low pressure friendly and doing it week in, week out under the pressure of your own fans, the opposition fans, the media, teammates etc. No doubt Carr has potential, but this is going to be a long tough season and while youngsters do play without fear initially it's a big ask to rely on them when their form inevitably drops as they may not have the mental resolve to cope. Not a criticism just a fact of life for most people. I fully get it's a bit chicken and egg, but personally I'd always favour a lower league loan first for these reasons.