Negativity

[Sly]

We need to be more negative and really turn the screws on that shit 

[MattFox]

Back the lads mentality is a huge problem 

[fox_favourite]

7 minutes ago, MattFox said:

Back the lads mentality is a huge problem 

Back the players, yes. Manager though, he's lost me 

[CornwallFox]

28 minutes ago, MattFox said:

Back the lads mentality is a huge problem 

They're not going to get any better shouting at them. We just need to pick a good team.

[STEVIE B]

36 minutes ago, MattFox said:

Back the lads mentality is a huge problem 

It's difficult when many of these are just being introduced into the squad. They are kids.

It's the hierarchy that have been & still are the huge problem. 

[CrazyKopCorner]

Yes enough's enough and we really need to get into this club before it really is too late 

[Footballwipe]

49 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

Shove your toxic positivity up your collective arses

Correct. Every bellend in this thread espousing how we should be positive and thankful is complicit in our downfall.

Edited 5 September by Footballwipe

[Motiv8a]

Hope this comment isn’t taken as a positive vs negative argument. I would be interested in hearing from other professional footballers and managers about how they feel about positive or negative crowd impacts on their ability to play well/ badly. 

 

I feel like I’ve heard many interviews over the years with managers talking about how important it is to win fans over and that it’s very important to get a good atmosphere in the stadium. 
 

Obviously it’s up to the players to win the fans over with results. That’s their job and they absolutely need to be the ones to turn things around. Obviously top, Rudkin and Russel need to go. 

 

I’m just always really interested in how ****ing psychological all this has to be. Confidence and momentum are huge in sports.

 

This is not me tying to blame fans. I’m more just thinking about the potential negative impact of the fan bases collective trauma of going from PL winners to where we are now in 10 years. It’s emotionally exhausting and the players will be feeling that flatness. 

[LCFCJohn]

Smile everyone. We can’t upset the positivity police who will be on here is about 36-48 hours when they think enough time has passed to come on and give us all a lecture 

[SafewayFox]

The problem with threads like this is that it’s been so avoidable and sadly predictable.

 

Examples of it being obvious from the get go, yet we have ploughed on are countless, but here are a few -

 

Appointing Cooper (straight after Enzo was madness) and bringing in Martin when the toxicity within the fanbase is at an all time high….even more madness.

 

All signings are gambles but look at the fear of most sane posters on here when we were linked with Ayew, Cullen to name a few.

 

Promoting Rudkin when he’s overseen our fall from such a position of power- again adding to the toxicity.

 

Just a few of many examples where Top and co had a choice and some how, consistently make the worst one.

[PingCower]

1 hour ago, Motiv8a said:

Hope this comment isn’t taken as a positive vs negative argument. I would be interested in hearing from other professional footballers and managers about how they feel about positive or negative crowd impacts on their ability to play well/ badly. 

 

I feel like I’ve heard many interviews over the years with managers talking about how important it is to win fans over and that it’s very important to get a good atmosphere in the stadium. 
 

Obviously it’s up to the players to win the fans over with results. That’s their job and they absolutely need to be the ones to turn things around. Obviously top, Rudkin and Russel need to go. 

 

I’m just always really interested in how ****ing psychological all this has to be. Confidence and momentum are huge in sports.

 

This is not me tying to blame fans. I’m more just thinking about the potential negative impact of the fan bases collective trauma of going from PL winners to where we are now in 10 years. It’s emotionally exhausting and the players will be feeling that flatness. 

Thing is, the mood was positive after last Tuesday. That positivity could have continued. All we had to do today was not lose 4-0 to Oxford at home. Four. Nil. 

[inckley fox]

1 minute ago, SafewayFox said:

The problem with threads like this is that it’s been so avoidable and sadly predictable.

 

Examples of it being obvious from the get go, yet we have ploughed on are countless, but here are a few -

 

Appointing Cooper (straight after Enzo was madness) and bringing in Martin when the toxicity within the fanbase is at an all time high….even more madness.

 

All signings are gambles but look at the fear of most sane posters on here when we were linked with Ayew, Cullen to name a few.

 

Promoting Rudkin when he’s overseen our fall from such a position of power- again adding to the toxicity.

 

Just a few of many examples where Top and co had a choice and some how, consistently make the worst one.

The thread was always a little silly, with all due respect to the excellent poster responsible for it. There is a very good reason for the negativity, and fans getting pissed off 45-70 minutes into a game, after players have failed to turn up and the manager has set the team up in accordance with his own personal whims, as opposed to anything which might approximate an effective positive game-plan, is clearly not the reason for our woes.

 

There is also a problem in football as a whole, which has especially impacted on us, whereby people don't understand what a tactically astute manager looks like. This confusion, where we're concerned, comes from the Sven and Pearson eras. And it carried on under Ranieri - an amazing motivator who was hailed by some as a great tactician - but whose players (and I have first hand knowledge of this) said he was confusing when it came to tactics, and whose success hinged on Shakespeare making sense of his often baffling instructions.

 

More recently, managers are often hailed as tacticians just because they have a specific tactic, their own brand, which they live and die by. Enzo's time at Leicester, as successful as it was, was a carefully orchestrated stepping stone in his management career which, tactically speaking, established his brand. Cifuentes and, to a far greater degree, Martin, have been all about establishing their tactical brand. But a good tactician, as per Clough or Ferguson, is someone whose understanding of the game's nuances enables them to adapt and outwit opposition. Martin's inflexibility renders that impossible. The same went for Sousa, Puel and Marti.

 

And yet people would consider these people better tactical thinkers than Pearson, who used four distinct formations, alternated between a possession-based game and a counter-attacking one, and frequently got his wingers to switch flank. Or O'Neill - deemed a footballing dinosaur by many - but who switched formations and playing styles throughout his career, in accordance with his squad and the opposition they faced. I think these misconceptions are part of the reason why people like Russell Martin, who have tried unsuccessfully to establish a brand, are wrongly considered more tactically astute, or 'progressive' (whatever that means) than the Pearsons and O'Neills, or even Fergusons, of the world.

[Motiv8a]

1 hour ago, PingCower said:

Thing is, the mood was positive after last Tuesday. That positivity could have continued. All we had to do today was not lose 4-0 to Oxford at home. Four. Nil. 

Yeah I mean you are definitely right and I don’t think the fact that people are voicing their anger now is the wrong reaction. It obviously makes sense is and is reasonable.

 

The positivity that was there at the start of the game understandably starts fading pretty quickly once a goal or 2 go in. The positivity before the game is a major reason why it was more likely that we would capitulate completely following a deflation. 

 

I think it’s possible for both things to be true. that the anger of the fan base is valid and that the negativity is Making it harder to come back from a bad situation.

 

I’ve always sensed that it’s something the players feel but wouldn’t say publicly because it would only make the situation worse. You can almost see it on the end of their tongue in interviews and things but it never comes out. Ex players too. 

 

Once again. I think it’s ok to be negative. I like to moan and vent my frustrations about the players. Otherwise i wouldn’t be on here. I moan about them all the time. It just doesn’t seem to help things in any way either apart from the fact that it could make it more unpleasant for top and make it more likely he sells up. Which would be nice.

 

I just have a funny feeling that it makes things harder for the players. That’s all. Keep booing and moaning at them tho. It’s good to get it out and not bottle it up. And it will force king power out and we can change managers again.
 

Also fully aware this is a pointless silly thread with people just moaning about each other. I’m just commenting on a forum as a way of processing my extremely negative feelings. As most of you all are. Just in different ways. It’s fine.

 

my original post was out of curiosity. Has a proffessional player ever kind of said “they booed us and it helped?” Or do they usually say things like “the fact that the crowd was behind us helped us win” this is a genuine question and I’d like to know if people have any examples or videos. 

[Dan]

It's nowhere near negative enough. The place should be feral.

 

But I'm essentially shouting at a cloud. I say this every time. Never wrong about it. But it never changes.

 

Make things hard for them. Make it unsafe for them.

[Motiv8a]

 

4 minutes ago, Dan said:

It's nowhere near negative enough. The place should be feral.

 

But I'm essentially shouting at a cloud. I say this every time. Never wrong about it. But it never changes.

 

Make things hard for them. Make it unsafe for them.

Unsafe is wild  but I take your point. I think it’s fair enough to feel that way. And maybe the crowd is not as negative as it could be. I hadn’t thought of that.
 

I’m also devastated about how things have gone. I can’t even talk about it with anyone. 
 

but genuinely. Are there quotes from players or managers saying that they benefited from negative crowd reactions? Or do they usually say that a positive crowd helped them get the edge? Or neutral maybe it doesn’t matter to them one way or the other. Makes no difference. Perhaps that’s the problem?

[Dan]

It'd be normal at any other club who had been destroyed to this extent. This is that drastic. We're the softest, most sportswashed fanbase in the country and that is no exaggeration. A national embarrassment. Force them out before it's too late. It's the only way.

[when_you're_smiling]

I think in the over 30 years as a fan that is the first time I’ve started booing at the end (because what’s the point in booing?) but especially had to check myself this time because the nine under 22s on the pitch don’t deserve it. It’s not fair on them.

 

But fking hell of course there’s negativity around. It’s the lowest a club’s been in 146 years and it shouldn’t be up to these kids to take it. And yet there’s no sign of lessons being learned in the upper echelons. Until there is movement there, there will be negativity. It’s slightly astonishing so many came out today to try and be positive in the first place! 

[Motiv8a]

4 minutes ago, Dan said:

It'd be normal at any other club who had been destroyed to this extent. This is that drastic. We're the softest, most sportswashed fanbase in the country and that is no exaggeration. A national embarrassment. Force them out before it's too late. It's the only way.

 

Yeah but I think that soft/deflated negativity/ lack of energy is part of it.
 

If the fans were raging and screaming and jumping around all like feral then yeah maybe it would be a bit livelier and they would up their game idk. Hard to do that when you are depressed as **** on account of being a national embarrassment though. 
 

either way we are ****ed 

[Dan]

Just now, Motiv8a said:

 

Yeah but I think that soft/deflated negativity/ lack of energy is part of it.
 

If the fans were raging and screaming and jumping around all like feral then yeah maybe it would be a bit livelier and they would up their game idk. Hard to do that when you are depressed as **** on account of being a national embarrassment though. 
 

either way we are ****ed 

I think if our fans had shown this shit was unacceptable years ago then the club would never have been allowed to plummet this far in the first place.

 

You can expand it to any club. If this level of decline was imposed on a club like Blackpool, like Plymouth, there is no way they sit and take it like this.

 

Norwich City boxing their board members in.

 

Something really extraordinary has happened to our fanbase. It's sickening.

[Rubbersoul]

Forced positivity has and always will be more annoying than people being negative

[Motiv8a]

1 hour ago, Rubbersoul said:

Forced positivity has and always will be more annoying than people being negative

I agree with you. I’m not trying to say we should be positive. There’s clearly nothing to be positive about. I’m just thinking out loud about the impact of the negative atmosphere which in my experience is not new, but has steadily grown for many years. And while that’s not unique to any football club. The particular kind of atmosphere and situation we are in IS fairly unique and it’s going to be very hard to get out of. My hope is that the club see that and make changes at the top. Well they already have. They’ve put the club up for sale. 
 

my concern is that if we get new owners. A new manager and a whole new starting eleven. We are still ****ed as soon as we continue to struggle. At least it still feels like that will be the case sometimes. 

 

this is just how I deal personally with difficult situations. I’m aware it’s annoying to many people. I’m sure you can be annoying too from time to time. Sorry if I’ve made your pain worse. I’m just trying to process the shit.

 

I do think we are beyond all that though and the primary objective for fans who want to make a difference should be to stay at home or protest.

[BenTheFox]

2 hours ago, Rubbersoul said:

Forced positivity has and always will be more annoying than people being negative

More annoying and actually far more damaging. 

 

I am convinced that a big reason why Everton didn't get relegated in any of those seasons where they were battling at the bottom end of the table was because they knew that their fans would have kicked off if they did. 

[LCFCJohn]

2 hours ago, Motiv8a said:

I agree with you. I’m not trying to say we should be positive. There’s clearly nothing to be positive about. I’m just thinking out loud about the impact of the negative atmosphere which in my experience is not new, but has steadily grown for many years. And while that’s not unique to any football club. The particular kind of atmosphere and situation we are in IS fairly unique and it’s going to be very hard to get out of. My hope is that the club see that and make changes at the top. Well they already have. They’ve put the club up for sale. 
 

my concern is that if we get new owners. A new manager and a whole new starting eleven. We are still ****ed as soon as we continue to struggle. At least it still feels like that will be the case sometimes. 

 

this is just how I deal personally with difficult situations. I’m aware it’s annoying to many people. I’m sure you can be annoying too from time to time. Sorry if I’ve made your pain worse. I’m just trying to process the shit.

 

I do think we are beyond all that though and the primary objective for fans who want to make a difference should be to stay at home or protest.

I’d like to think that any players with the mentality you’d want playing for the club, would realise that any reaction from the fanbase is entirely warranted and in this case, not necessarily even aimed at them as they haven’t (in most cases) been around for the decline.

 

The difference between athletes who consistently achieve is mentality. Look at someone like Emma Raducanu. Won a major but although she’s had injuries, hasn’t got the mentality seemingly of a serial winner like your Williams sisters or the obvious guys on the men’s side of the sport. Same with football, if they can’t see that the fans are justified in their frustrations, they just don’t get it and won’t be successful anyway. 
 

Same with our fans base. All those who aren’t absolutely fuming, you can tell they haven’t ever had success whether in sport or otherwise as there are the lack of standards that you have when that ambition is ingrained into you. There’s just a very loser mentality in the club, from the owner, DoF, manager and the fanbase.

[Ric Flair]

16 hours ago, PingCower said:

Thing is, the mood was positive after last Tuesday. That positivity could have continued. All we had to do today was not lose 4-0 to Oxford at home. Four. Nil. 

Bang on. Give it another few games of being the pits and when we're back playing at home and Brussell will bemoan that the players are effected by the negativity in the crowd despite them suffering none of it that caused the appalling 1st half vs Burton and the entirety of yesterday which we came in to extremely positive for probably the last time this season.

[foxy tiler]

19 hours ago, fox_favourite said:

Back the players, yes. Manager though, he's lost me 

I agree these players with the right manager can definitely compete at this level. Poss even higher....happy to back the players but the manager needs to either change his philosophy (wont happen) or go.