Daggers Posted 7 March 2007 Share Posted 7 March 2007 I do believe the Trust said that they were going to publish here, and on their website, details of the bid process that they'd been unable to comment on at the time...it would also be interesting to hear about their meetings with MM, what they are currently campaigning on and their plans for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 7 March 2007 Share Posted 7 March 2007 I do believe the Trust said that they were going to publish here, and on their website, details of the bid process that they'd been unable to comment on at the time...it would also be interesting to hear about their meetings with MM, what they are currently campaigning on and their plans for the future. Well they've just had elections (well re-elections due to a lack of candidates). I would imagine there will be a need to re-assess their position as working towards a bigger shareholding and an eventual place on the board is now a none starter. I'd like to see them make a big push to increase their membership, by revisiting their aims, dramatically cutting the price of membership to a nominal (administrative) figure £1 ? and if this requires the resignation of some board members who have clearly lost the confidence of a large section of LCFC fans then so be it. This should be followed up by one or two specific campaigns supported by an enlarged membership for example the moving of the family section, improvement in the refreshment provision, better quality products in the shop or reduced prices, a reduction in match day ticket pricing etc. Of course no one knows yet what MM has in mind and these issues might easily be resolved or we could end up with new issues, because make no mistake MM is here to make some money not as a philanthropist and may well introduce new ideas that piss off a lot of fans, maybe not in the short term but in time. You'll now tell me your query was rhetorical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo V Posted 7 March 2007 Share Posted 7 March 2007 I do believe the Trust said that they were going to publish here, and on their website, details of the bid process that they'd been unable to comment on at the time...it would also be interesting to hear about their meetings with MM, what they are currently campaigning on and their plans for the future. I think they get far too much airtime and should just go away and let MM take the club forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted 7 March 2007 Share Posted 7 March 2007 Fat chance we'll get it. I brought it up in a thread which pertained to the Mandaric takeover a few weeks ago when the foxes trust posted their fortnightly 'tit bit' of insider info and got no response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 7 March 2007 Author Share Posted 7 March 2007 You'll now tell me your query was rhetorical In part. I know I have a bug up my arse for the Trust, as much as Thracian does for the Youth Team...but there's been no response of note to date. Seems to me they ceased to exist the moment MM moved in. To my mind they have not addressed their communication issues and they have not clarified what they stand for or what they are campaigning for. As such, what purpose do they serve? I think that you're right, now that they are not enlarging share pwnership the charging of membership fees should be nominal. This is actually a possibility for people to start to take them seriously again, especially if they give up their box seats and return to the stands; if they start VISIBLY campaigning on issues rather than quietly sneaking into the good books of board members. I just wonder if those on the FT board have the will to grab this opportunity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 7 March 2007 Author Share Posted 7 March 2007 I think they get far too much airtime and should just go away and let MM take the club forward. No, I think they should become a proper voice for the fans. Or rather, I hope they become a proper voice for the fans of Leicester City. Seriously. A body we could all get behind on issues we all care about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxes_Trust Posted 7 March 2007 Share Posted 7 March 2007 To cover a few points briefly. A detailed account of what happened throughout the takeover process was given at the Trust's AGM on the 26th February. This will appear in the next members printed newsletter which should be circulated later this month. Also at the AGM we consulted the members present about what they felt the future of the Trust should be. The Trust board will take the views expressed into our Trust board meeting next Monday night. We will encourage members to put their ideas forward via e-mail/letter too, (DavieG as a current member, your thoughts in this thread will be forwarded to the Trust Board). One of the points that came across from members was not to act hastily in setting objectives (particularly use of funds raised) until we had a reasonable period to assess Milan's vision for the future & the relative priority he places on issues, which in turn would result in our own ranking of priorities. Membership fees cannot alter for this year, as the vast majority of renewals have been processed, but reducing membership fees for future years is being considered, a balance will need to be struck depending on what we would like to raise money for on an annual basis. Also our costs will increase, in the past we minimised costs to maximise investment in shares, however following AGM feedback, we will increase the number of printed newsletters per year, as we still have a significant number of members who don't have e-mail. The level of communication has reduced currently & we will impliment the plan of considered pieces on the website and few posts on message boards, however as the questions were raised in this thread, we have responded tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 7 March 2007 Author Share Posted 7 March 2007 <<that stuff above>> I don't know whether I'm more surprised at your post and its lack of substance or at myself for expecting more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxes_Trust Posted 7 March 2007 Share Posted 7 March 2007 I don't know whether I'm more surprised at your post and its lack of substance or at myself for expecting more. What do you expect Dave at this point in time? Milan only officially owns the club on Friday, we need to understand his plans first & this view came over very strongly from the members at the AGM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Doyle Posted 8 March 2007 Share Posted 8 March 2007 What do you expect Dave at this point in time? Milan only officially owns the club on Friday, we need to understand his plans first & this view came over very strongly from the members at the AGM That's a bit rich isn't it! You sit back during the take over saying you don't know the details of the bid and when its done you say "we need to understand his plans first". You either know what's going on or you don't. By now if you don't I suggest its to late and once again think you placing a bet each way. As a matter of interest what is your current membership level in detail, Adults, Children Family Others (Please list) Total COME ON YOU MIGHTY FOXES MadMick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 8 March 2007 Share Posted 8 March 2007 Well I can see it's sensible to find out what MM is all about but that should not restrict you looking into how the Trust is run and where you have been going wrong, which judging from a lot of web feedback there is something seriously wrong for what appears to be a large number of people. I'm not sure I see the need for more newsletters per se, a standard quarterly one perhaps, any more should be based on there being something to report on. Re membership fees I believe very strongly that this should only cover admin costs, any additional funding for supporting specific activities/actions should be raised through voluntary contributions or fund raising activities, hopefully from more members. This would have the added benefit of measuring the support/resolve of fans for the particular issue and would placate those who were not supportive of the issue in question. Nothing, absolutely nothing should be put in the way of increasing and maintaining a high level of membership, for with out the numbers the Foxes Trust will never be seen, by a large proportion of fans to be representative of the fans and will always be on the back foot when campaigning against the club. Making it evermore a pointless intitution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 8 March 2007 Share Posted 8 March 2007 Well I can see it's sensible to find out what MM is all about but that should not restrict you looking into how the Trust is run and where you have been going wrong, which judging from a lot of web feedback there is something seriously wrong for what appears to be a large number of people. I'm not sure I see the need for more newsletters per se, a standard quarterly one perhaps, any more should be based on there being something to report on. Re membership fees I believe very strongly that this should only cover admin costs, any additional funding for supporting specific activities/actions should be raised through voluntary contributions or fund raising activities, hopefully from more members. This would have the added benefit of measuring the support/resolve of fans for the particular issue and would placate those who were not supportive of the issue in question. Nothing, absolutely nothing should be put in the way of increasing and maintaining a high level of membership, for with out the numbers the Foxes Trust will never be seen, by a large proportion of fans to be representative of the fans and will always be on the back foot when campaigning against the club. Making it evermore a pointless intitution. Number of members is certainly the key. If Milan is supportive of there being a fans organistion, I would suggest the trust get in touch with the club with the following suggestion - when a season ticket is bought, all purchasers should have the option to join the trust for £1 added to the cost of their season ticket. Whn you are spending a couple of hundred quid you won't notice the extra pound, so you should get a lot more members. The club could tally it up and pay over to the trust. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 8 March 2007 Share Posted 8 March 2007 Number of members is certainly the key. If Milan is supportive of there being a fans organistion, I would suggest the trust get in touch with the club with the following suggestion - when a season ticket is bought, all purchasers should have the option to join the trust for £1 added to the cost of their season ticket. Whn you are spending a couple of hundred quid you won't notice the extra pound, so you should get a lot more members. The club could tally it up and pay over to the trust. Just a thought. It's a sensible idea on the face of it JTH but is likely to give some fans the impression that the Trust is run by the club. I think it is better for the Trust to maintain and be seen to maintaining some distance from the club. It's also why they should either refuse the 2 free tickets or make them available just to 'ordinary' members or perhaps to a nominated charity. Any benefits real or perceived from this 'networking' is clearly counter productive and should be achievable through normal meetings, besides the only person now worth net working with is MM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 8 March 2007 Author Share Posted 8 March 2007 I think it is better for the Trust to maintain and be seen to maintaining some distance from the club. It's also why they should either refuse the 2 free tickets or make them available just to 'ordinary' members or perhaps to a nominated charity. If you stood, I would pay my subscription and vote for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxes_Trust Posted 8 March 2007 Share Posted 8 March 2007 That's a bit rich isn't it! You sit back during the take over saying you don't know the details of the bid and when its done you say "we need to understand his plans first". I can assure you we didn't "just sit back" during the takeover. Our AGM was the first opportunity we had to give members an insight into how the takeover progressed & our role in it. The feedback we had from members on the night was they were amazed at the amount of time FT Board members committed to the process. The FT Board also acknowledged the frustration many members felt as the FT Board weren't able to give them regular detailed updates. As my colleague said above we will update non-internet members on our role in the takeover in a newsletter in the next few weeks. We believe it is important our members are updated before publishing on our website for non-members to read. Frustrating I know for those of you who want to know the full details but hope you understand our first priority has to be to update members. To clarify the details of the bid concerned the amount MM was investing in the club (£9m over 15 months), payments to shareholders & the scheduling of those payments plus other legal stuff required to complete a takover/buyout. There were NO details as to MM's future plans for the club on such things as the Stadium, the Academy or ticket prices etc. In fairness a bid document wouldn't contain those issues, however we did ask those questions both publicly & privately to MM's representative in the early stages of the takeover. Interestingly when we did raise these points on message boards & in the Mercury we were accused of being anti MM! MM has only been at the club a matter of a couple of weeks, so will no doubt be conducting is own thorough review of the club before putting his business plan into place. The Trust also needs to review where it's at & the direction it goes from here, which is why we'll be looking at the issues DaveG raised above & many others. No doubt in the next couple of weeks we'll meet with MM & discuss how the FT can work with him for the benefit of all fans. We have a commitment from MM that he will hold a Q&A evening with Trust members, probably sometime in April & once a date has been confirmed will publish that on our website & mail non internet members. Finally what do those on here, both members & non-members believe is the way forward for FT? If you are a member what are your priorities for FT now? If you are not a member what would encourage you to join? Btw I've not deliberately avoided the question re member numbers, but we are currently going through the renewal process & once that is complete will be able to give better indications as to membership levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Hero Posted 8 March 2007 Share Posted 8 March 2007 The FT is a sham. No more, no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harpendenfox Posted 8 March 2007 Share Posted 8 March 2007 I read all this stuff about the Foxes Trust becoming more representative of 'what the fans think', but lets face it, those of us who chat about all things LCFC on this board are disagreeing all the time. That's what it's all about. Opinions. Why so down on these people? From my understanding they volunteer their time, and in some cases, give their money, to support the Club. Why so much abuse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James. Posted 8 March 2007 Share Posted 8 March 2007 The abuse seems wholly unnecessary. Instead of rubbishing the trust this thread should be about providing constructive comments like davieG's. What exactly is the benefit of filling these pages with pointless insults? If any progress is to be made let's try constructive comments - isn't that the best way to bring about change? I think Jon the Hat made a decent suggestion with the small top up to a season ticket price in order to gain membership of the trust. If managed correctly I feel the Trust could still maintain their independence while providing an easy and effective way to increase membership and develop into a "proper voice". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultra Posted 8 March 2007 Share Posted 8 March 2007 The post below recently appeared on the EMC Forum. I have highlighted the points of particular relevance to us. Communicating Together Technology is a wonderful thing. Over the past decade or so the world has been transformed by the ability for everyone to communicate instantaneously - via email, websites, text messages, mobile phones and even webcams. In the main this is obviously a tremendous asset and does bring the world closer together. The costs of keeping in touch with loved ones are now insignificant and you can always be reachable to those who care. In business as well information is much closer to hand and decisions can be made remotely and at all hours of day and night. Information can be at your fingertips at all times and work continues around the clock - you can even conclude buying a Football Club in the early hours of a Saturday morning! With all this additional ability to communicate, the demand for information has become much greater. The consumers' demands have become higher as a result. Whereas fifteen years ago many fans' only source of information about their club was the local paper or the radio, now they expect to know every aspect of the club's affairs round the clock. When this information is not forthcoming, the void now gets filled with rumours and innuendo. This makes running a football club extremely difficult and managing public relations a thankless task. Announce that you are recruiting a manager who will 'raise the roof' and you are accused of raising expectations too high and making unrealistic promises. The supporters are almost BOUND to be disappointed - whoever gets the job! When six months later you sit at the top of the table, nobody is ever likely to apologise for their lack of faith - even when the performances lead to debate over the stand roof being literally raised to add additional seating! Similarly explaining the role and activities of a Supporters Trust can be a thankless task. It seems to be par for the course to be lambasted at every opportunity. When Foxes Trust highlighted concerns over a prospective new owner wanting to take over their club lock, stock and barrel - and disenfranchise the supporters from having ANY say in the running of their club - they were roundly criticised and there were even calls for them to be disbanded. When Sheffield Wednesday's Trust wanted to speak to parties interested in investing in their club, they got hounded out of their club and some members were even banned from the ground. When RamsTrust spends months investigating and hours of highlighting what is really going at the club, and the real backgrounds of the people sitting in the Boardroom, many are still critical and claim they had no part in exposing the true situation. It was ever thus, and continues even now. Despite the true situation being revealed, and the protests shown to be justified and effective, there are still questions over the value of a Trust. There are still people who take pleasure in criticising others rather than attempting to be constructive. You only have to have a few people put out an opinion on an internet messageboard and it seems to become 'fact'. To read some statements from supposed Derby 'fans' you would believe RamsTrust is here to bring about the demise of the club! Ignoring the tireless work of the past five years, it is claimed that RamsTrust activists are actually just trying to take over the club and turn it into some sort of 'Community project' - for their own ends. Repeat this enough times and the end is nigh (apparently). If RamsTrust is too supportive of the club (despite being top of the league and financially secure) we are no longer being objective or independent. Say anything mildly critical or express a personal opinion and we are ungrateful and willing the club to fail. The Trust is here to give the fans a voice and to work with the club for the good of the supporters and Derby County FC. Trusts throughout the country are still growing and continue to work for the good of their clubs and of the game. UEFA have looked at the UK trust model and declared they want it expanded across Europe. Furthermore, trusts have ALL party support as evidenced by successive annual speakers at the Supporters Direct conference being Sir Brian Mawhinney (former Chairman of the Conservative Party) and Rt Hon Gordon Brown MP, Chancellor of the Exchequer. Many members of Parliament and indeed of the House of Lords are members of the trust of the club they support. A few keyboard warriors aren't going to change anything - no matter how many times they state it. Repeating something ad nauseum doesn't make it true. Trusts are here to stay and RamsTrust is proud to have developed a strong relationship with the current Board of DCFC. This relationship will continue for the good of Derby County regardless of the opinion of a vocal minority. Derby's Trust didn't just disappear after their change of ownership, and neither should ours. There are still plenty of issues, such as ticket prices and standing areas, for them to campaign on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 8 March 2007 Author Share Posted 8 March 2007 There are still plenty of issues, such as ticket prices and standing areas, for them to campaign on. Your quotation is pretty pointless in this discussion, the final sentence is the only point of note. I would say that the large level of dissatisfaction with the Trust stems from a number of issues: 1. Lack of clarity of campaigning priorities. If you look at any pressure group/organisation you should be able to find clear action priorities...the Trust has none. When ask the question on a repeated basis over the course of this season it has never been answered...not even the concept has been addressed. Look at the website for all of their communication for this season - spot an issue they have tackled? 2. Toadying. Any independent body needs to publicly affirm its independence rather than climbing into bed with those it is seeking to check up on. The free programmes, the padded seats and the aftermatch shmoozing has been another example of misdirected energy...in the belief that 'unspoken' conversations in this environment helped to...err...not quite sure what they helped to achieve because we can not be told for what ever reason. 3. Communication. You can berate those that seek to convey to the Trust exec the need to improve its communication in both style and substance if you wish but that does not detract from the fact that if they have been doing anything for the last year then they've made a damn good job of keeping silent about it. When they have chosen to adress forums it has been done in a wholly unprofessional manner. Also, far too often, the Trust acts as if it is a private members club - "we must give our members the..." - and loses sight of gaining the confidence and trust of the fanbase. All of its actions should be prefaced with one question - is it in the best interests of the supporters of Leicester City? For the Trust to post here asking for suggestions smacks of a group of people devoid of ideas and direction...and the answers have been given on this forum (and others) time and time again. Speak to the fans at large Give up the box seats and the freebies Define the issues to be addressed Give regular feedback as to the progress Be more open and accountable Do a decent and open job and support for the Trust will increase...or continue to hide behind weasel words and inaction and have people being critical. To my mind it's a clear choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Hero Posted 8 March 2007 Share Posted 8 March 2007 Good post Dave. Wouldn't expect 95% of this forum to understand it but I found myself agreeing with every point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 8 March 2007 Share Posted 8 March 2007 Good post Dave. Wouldn't expect 95% of this forum to understand it but I found myself agreeing with every point. some one's got a high opinion of himself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez of Mahrez Posted 8 March 2007 Share Posted 8 March 2007 some one's got a high opinion of himself I know you haven't been around all that long but surely you must have noticed one of his previous 13,000 or so posts before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magictv Posted 8 March 2007 Share Posted 8 March 2007 Good post Dave. Wouldn't expect 95% of this forum to understand it but I found myself agreeing with every point. I wish I was as clever as you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpenden Fox Posted 8 March 2007 Share Posted 8 March 2007 Speak to the fans at large I don't have any particular love of the FT, I'm not a member of it, but as I've said before I do think they're getting a lot of abuse. I've read your detailed and interesting post carefully, but I'd genuinely be interested in how they should 'speak to the fans at large' If you have time would you expand upon what you mean? Sincere question. I'm not looking to get into an argument with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.