Ric Flair Posted 14 March 2007 Share Posted 14 March 2007 Its because his only weapon is pace, which is at its most useful whe he comes off the bench fresh aaginst tired defenders. He offered more than Horsefield today, but then again Junior Lewis with his good foot amputated would have been. I totally agree. Another problem, which isn't necessarily Elvis's fault is that when he does come on at the closing stages of matches, we are often chasing the game for a win or a point and tend to go even more route one than we normally do. Well Elvis is dreadful in the air and some of the balls that get whipped in to the box in the closing stages you hope for a player of Horsfield's aerial ability to be on the end of them. Sadly, he's taken off before than because he's been crap. Elvis has one use and that's causing defenders to needlessly panic when he comes on. He rarely uses his pace to effect, but i'd be quite happy to bring him on in the closing stages as long as we have a target man and another useful striker on the field to take advantage of the space caused by defenders pushing back because they fear Elvis for some unknown reason. I'm hoping Todorov and Hume up front together would work well if he signs. If we need to chase the game then bring Elv on and drop Hume in behind the front two. Other than that, Elvis is of no use to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonisco Posted 14 March 2007 Share Posted 14 March 2007 He certainly improved us when he came on last night - he actually managed to hold the ball up effectively, unlike Horsfield who really didn't look bothered last night. We looked far more likely to score when he came on, if Fryatt isn't fit for Saturday I'd definitely start him ahead of Horsfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Hero Posted 14 March 2007 Share Posted 14 March 2007 Elvis is okay when the opposition is nackered and the lino isn't watching. When he starts the game he's simply pathetic. An embarrassment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knighton Matt Posted 14 March 2007 Share Posted 14 March 2007 Elvis is okay when the opposition is nackered and the lino isn't watching. When he starts the game he's simply pathetic. An embarrassment. Not strictly true. His shiny red get-ups were something to behold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwell Pablo Posted 14 March 2007 Share Posted 14 March 2007 Not strictly true. His shiny red get-ups were something to behold. Indeed, as I pointed out to Fez red=cool and makes you run faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knighton Matt Posted 14 March 2007 Share Posted 14 March 2007 Indeed, as I pointed out to Fez crack=cool and makes you run faster. Drugs. Just say no Manwell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Hero Posted 14 March 2007 Share Posted 14 March 2007 Indeed, as I pointed out to Fez red=cool and makes you run faster. Also, Fezzes.. or Fezi (to use the correct plural term) are generally speaking, red. Proving the point, in a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karljohn Posted 14 March 2007 Share Posted 14 March 2007 Hammond - absolutely useless - I could not believe his lack of effort...Hume chasing a ball down from 25 yards while hammond stood and watched 5 yards away - get rid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Fan Posted 14 March 2007 Share Posted 14 March 2007 Elvis is quick, but has the first touch of a donkey and he couldn't hit Vanessa Feltz's arse with a banjo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 14 March 2007 Share Posted 14 March 2007 I came around to Thracian's way of thinking halfway through the first half for two reasons yesterday. 1. Horsfield was Horseshit for another game. 2. Putting Hammond on looked, tactically, the best possible answer. For attacking football, you need space. We looked to be playing quite narrow yesterday, and for goal kicks and the like, both sets of defenders were pushing high, meaning all our players were in a space not much bigger than the centre circle. A pacy player at the front gives you more movement and space UP the pitch, which you need when you've sacrificed width like we do a lot of the time. When a defense pushes up, too, they're more susceptable to the long ball over the top, which a swift player exacerbates. By the time Hammond did come on, though, we were playing wider, which was odd, but he didn't do worse than Horsfield. He'd have had a job, let's face it. You're dead right about the width. You could see it dramatically at goalkicks with everyone crowding over into one area like sheep. Second half the wingers stayed right out onn the flanks when we were attacking and a lot better it was too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynny Posted 15 March 2007 Share Posted 15 March 2007 You're dead right about the width. You could see it dramatically at goalkicks with everyone crowding over into one area like sheep. Second half the wingers stayed right out onn the flanks when we were attacking and a lot better it was too. It was, I was dead pleased. I thought we at least had a decent pop at playing attacking football even if ultimately we were foiled and not quite up to it, which is why I found the negativity difficult to understand. It's being held to a draw by the team in 24th, I guess. We looked much better playing expansively, though. Even Hughes went from 'dire' to just 'bad'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcfc_jme Posted 15 March 2007 Share Posted 15 March 2007 Elvis is quick across the ground, but, more often than not, offers us absolutely nothing else. As has been suggested on here already, he would be most useful coming off the bench for us when the defence is tired and Fryatt or Hume (obviously the best attacking combination we have at the club currently) cannot run any more. I don't rate Elvis. He can run fast, but then, so can many other people who aren't professional footballers. A footballer is useless if they cannot actually do anything with a football - that much is obvious. Elvis wastes more chances than he scores, and he cannot bring the ball under control 99 times out of 100. Add that to the fact that he's always offside, and you can understand why people are extremely frustrated with him. Kelly is constantly talking about redoubling efforts on the training ground - how many times will we have to do that before Hammond learns the offside rule and develops a first touch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 15 March 2007 Share Posted 15 March 2007 Elvis is quick across the ground, but, more often than not, offers us absolutely nothing else. As has been suggested on here already, he would be most useful coming off the bench for us when the defence is tired and Fryatt or Hume (obviously the best attacking combination we have at the club currently) cannot run any more. I don't rate Elvis. He can run fast, but then, so can many other people who aren't professional footballers. A footballer is useless if they cannot actually do anything with a football - that much is obvious. Elvis wastes more chances than he scores, and he cannot bring the ball under control 99 times out of 100. Add that to the fact that he's always offside, and you can understand why people are extremely frustrated with him. Kelly is constantly talking about redoubling efforts on the training ground - how many times will we have to do that before Hammond learns the offside rule and develops a first touch? Has anyone even established that he really was offside when he broke through to be one on one with their goalkeeper?. Unfortunately I was head on to the incident but it looked pretty marginal to me and to everyone around me who went ballistic. As has happened with a couple of his disallowed goals Hammond's problem is not always being offside, it is arseholes thinking he's offside, and partly because they find it impossible to look in two places at the same time. Again, this offside issue is a perception thing. Rooney is forever being flagged offside but he'll get forgiven anything. Hammond doesn't get the same sympathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcfc_jme Posted 15 March 2007 Share Posted 15 March 2007 Again, this offside issue is a perception thing. Rooney is forever being flagged offside but he'll get forgiven anything. Hammond doesn't get the same sympathy. Thracian, as much as I respect your opinions on most things, this has made me laugh. Rooney has a quality first touch, he scores goals, works hard and can do the business at international level. Hammond has no first touch, doesn't score as many goals, doesn't work very hard when he starts and cannot even do the business at Championship level. Talking about sympathy, Hume doesn't score many goals, but I can guarantee if he was flagged offside as much as Hammond he'd get a lot more sympathy, simply because of his application, work-rate and overall contribution to the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 15 March 2007 Share Posted 15 March 2007 Thracian, as much as I respect your opinions on most things, this has made me laugh. Rooney has a quality first touch, he scores goals, works hard and can do the business at international level. Hammond has no first touch, doesn't score as many goals, doesn't work very hard when he starts and cannot even do the business at Championship level. Talking about sympathy, Hume doesn't score many goals, but I can guarantee if he was flagged offside as much as Hammond he'd get a lot more sympathy, simply because of his application, work-rate and overall contribution to the team. The point I'm making is that Hammond gets hammered for things because people want to hammer him. His first touch is another example. He is often clumsy, no question, but on Tuesday he showed quite good contol in some very tight situations and made all sorts of things happen. Horsfield on the other hand continued to show the touch of a dinosaur. Yeates' touch at Southend was non-existent, Kisnorbo is permanently like Muffin the Mule when it comes to finesse and Nils is not much better. I just think it would be nice - considering Hammond has still been involved with more goals than Fryat, Horsfield, Hughes, Jarrett and Yeates put together this season - for fans generally to cut him some slack and appreciate the contribution he makes. The clamouring as already started for the return of Fryatt of the silkier skills. Trouble is Fryatt hadn't even got enough respect for his club to start the season fit and has not shown the toughness needed to even be fit for most of our games this season. Other people, like Hammond, have had to do his shifts. And yet our three goals for the season gets the proverbial heroes welcome on his return. Even had Hammond not been given offside and had rounded the keeper and scored the praise for him would have been muted. But had Fryatt done the same he'd have been praise to the proverbial rafters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Hero Posted 15 March 2007 Share Posted 15 March 2007 Again, this offside issue is a perception thing. Rooney is forever being flagged offside but he'll get forgiven anything. Hammond doesn't get the same sympathy. I might put that in my sig. A comparison between Rooney and Hammond. Priceless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonisco Posted 15 March 2007 Share Posted 15 March 2007 I might put that in my sig. A comparison between Rooney and Hammond. Priceless. Not as good as joeb's "Horsfield was like Henry today". For the record, I think Elvis should start on Saturday. He was a massive improvement on Horsfield when he came on against Leeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 15 March 2007 Share Posted 15 March 2007 I might put that in my sig. A comparison between Rooney and Hammond. Priceless. I'd hate to have you calculate a course for the moon. I've never known anyone can take some information and distort it to mean something entirely to suit youself. There was no comparison between Hammond and Rooney as footballers. Just of he fans reaction to Rooney (a player much liked) being offside and Hammond (a player much disliked) being offside. If you translated the life story of Mao Tse Tung you'd manage to portray him as a relative of Mother Teresa! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dames Posted 15 March 2007 Share Posted 15 March 2007 I think hes growing on me. Another loveable useless donkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Hero Posted 15 March 2007 Share Posted 15 March 2007 That's a ridiculous comment. You made a comparison between Elvis Hammond and Wayne Rooney wondering why they are seen as being so different. Because they are so different. There are almost no similarities. One is a joy to watch.. one is an absolute chore to watch. Do you really want me to explain to you why Rooney is forgiven the odd offside whilst Hammond is berated for constantly being unnecessarily offside and refusing to adapt or learn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 15 March 2007 Share Posted 15 March 2007 The point I'm making is that Hammond gets hammered for things because people want to hammer him. His first touch is another example. He is often clumsy, no question, but on Tuesday he showed quite good contol in some very tight situations and made all sorts of things happen... ...I just think it would be nice - considering Hammond has still been involved with more goals than Fryat, Horsfield, Hughes, Jarrett and Yeates put together this season - for fans generally to cut him some slack and appreciate the contribution he makes. You are spot on with this Thrac. I would like to cut him some slack and if he starts on Saturday and plays with the level of effort he displayed on Tuesday then maybe he'll get the rub of the green. His control was far better than previous and he actually displayed something approaching vision and an ability to move in more than one direction. Let's see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwell Pablo Posted 15 March 2007 Share Posted 15 March 2007 The point I'm making is that Hammond gets hammered for things because people want to hammer him. His first touch is another example. He is often clumsy, no question, but on Tuesday he showed quite good contol in some very tight situations and made all sorts of things happen. Horsfield on the other hand continued to show the touch of a dinosaur. Yeates' touch at Southend was non-existent, Kisnorbo is permanently like Muffin the Mule when it comes to finesse and Nils is not much better. I just think it would be nice - considering Hammond has still been involved with more goals than Fryat, Horsfield, Hughes, Jarrett and Yeates put together this season - for fans generally to cut him some slack and appreciate the contribution he makes. The clamouring as already started for the return of Fryatt of the silkier skills. Trouble is Fryatt hadn't even got enough respect for his club to start the season fit and has not shown the toughness needed to even be fit for most of our games this season. Other people, like Hammond, have had to do his shifts. And yet our three goals for the season gets the proverbial heroes welcome on his return. Even had Hammond not been given offside and had rounded the keeper and scored the praise for him would have been muted. But had Fryatt done the same he'd have been praise to the proverbial rafters. Thats not true, he hasn't even scored more goals than Fryatt and Horsfield put togther. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 15 March 2007 Share Posted 15 March 2007 Thats not true, he hasn't even scored more goals than Fryatt and Horsfield put togther. But I'm pretty sure he's been "involved" in more ~ which is what he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 15 March 2007 Share Posted 15 March 2007 That's a ridiculous comment. You made a comparison between Elvis Hammond and Wayne Rooney wondering why they are seen as being so different. Because they are so different. There are almost no similarities. One is a joy to watch.. one is an absolute chore to watch. Do you really want me to explain to you why Rooney is forgiven the odd offside whilst Hammond is berated for constantly being unnecessarily offside and refusing to adapt or learn? I repeat. There was no comparison between Hammond as a footballer and Rooney as a footballer. Just the fact that one is given more respect because he is "good" and the other less because he's perceived as "bad2. Within our team he is not one of the worst players by any means and might even be argued to get offside sometimes because he's trying to get in where it hurts whereas others don't ever get that far forwards. Fast players will always suffer from marginal offsides and, like I say, no-one's past an opinion about the incident Tuesday night when he might have won the game and suffered a very debateable decision. I stand by every word I've written on the guy. He's just a convenient fall guy. And it's not justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwell Pablo Posted 15 March 2007 Share Posted 15 March 2007 But I'm pretty sure he's been "involved" in more ~ which is what he said. Alright, Thracian says 10. Fryatt's scored 3, Horsfield has scored 4, Yeates has scored one Hughes has scored 3. I make that 11, and thats to say that none of those players were "involved" in the scoreing of any other goals this season, which is garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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