Gradel Watch

[Geo V]

You seem to mean 'like so many of our "young" players'.

With you though it is always the youngsters who are "inconsistent". Never the Campbells, Newtons, Fryatts (yes I know he's young but you didn't mention him, did you?), DeVries's, Kishishevs.

This season I've had youngster Wesolowski as our best player to date. Last season Porter and Mattock were okay and not nearly as bad as several I could mention.

I wonder underneath if you would ever actually have the courage to use any youngsters if you were a manager. Or would it always be "when they're ready" but they never would be because they'd never get any chances. It's a bit like the idea of attacking football. People theorise about it being risky but there's never any evidence because we never try it more than briefly.

I don't disagree with what you say about consistency. But why do the Campbell, DeVries, Fryatt, Kishishev and Cort escape your criticism? Different criteria or what?

We had loan players last season. They stalled the progress of our youngsters and added sod all to our team that I could see.

Explain to me what use Horsfield, Jarrett, Yeates and Glombard were? Are you seriously saying they were better than Dodds, Andy King, Gradel and anyone you care to name cos I've no idea where Glombard was supposed to shine anyway.

And who are these wonderful potential loanees whose Premiership clubs don't think are quite good enough now but who are better than the lads who have won the youth league play-offs? Look at the superstars we've brought in over the summer.

Has Kishishev really shown himself better than Andy King? Or Campbell better than Dodds or Odhiambo. Or Newton better than Gradel?. Or Clemence better than Wesolowski?

Everyone I've mentioned is an okay player on his day but is one better than the other?. Or more consistent? I just don't see the evidence.

Im not saying that all young players are inconsistent but experience does help out plenty with simple things like managing your time on the pitch, movements to make and decision making. Some youngsters need to learn the patterns that happen all over the pitch and thats why younger players make some basic mistakes, like say Logan does in his positioning. He`ll learn plenty after a year on loan and be the better for it.

As for your questions that include classics like "Is Clemence better than Weso?". The answer is yes. Clemence has matured as a footballer over the years after a shaky start but is about at peak for his abilities. Winning Players player of the year awards and the fans choice as player of the year and being named captain for a side that won promotion should tell you a little about his current ability. Clemence seems to get stronger as the games go whilst Weso fades at times but i have no doubt that Weso will eclipse Clemence`s ability in the future. I am also sure that Weso is better at his age now than Clem was when he was 20 but for now, that edge of experience, know how and ability is noticeable.

Asking if DJ is better than Dodds is ridiculous too and doesnt need me to answer the question.

I'm also not saying that experienced players who are over the hill like a Horsfield are worth buying or even persevering with but there is no doubt that the likes of Dodds and Odhiambo would like to replicate the limited success of Horsfield and play in the Premiership one day. Hopefully they`ll score many more goals than him in the top two divisions but they need to prove they can do it regularly.

As for the youngsters who I have never or hardly seen like Dodds, King, Gradel or the rest, they need to show enough about them to be able to achieve what players like Kishishev has done in his career. To play as a regular International and be a first teamer in the premiership with Charlton is some achievement and more recently, he was named by Leeds as premiership class and there best player when he was there on loan last season.

Anyway all this talk is blah blah blah to me. If you are a young player who comes in and impresses, then you deserve to stay like Weso but what about the list of young players who have come in and don't secure a first team spot like Levi, Sheehan, Mattock, COG, Stearman, Logan??! They have hardly set the division alight have they? Why is that?

[Thracian]

Im not saying that all young players are inconsistent but experience does help out plenty with simple things like managing your time on the pitch, movements to make and decision making. Some youngsters need to learn the patterns that happen all over the pitch and thats why younger players make some basic mistakes, like say Logan does in his positioning. He`ll learn plenty after a year on loan and be the better for it.

As for your questions that include classics like "Is Clemence better than Weso?". The answer is yes. Clemence has matured as a footballer over the years after a shaky start but is about at peak for his abilities. Winning Players player of the year awards and the fans choice as player of the year and being named captain for a side that won promotion should tell you a little about his current ability. Clemence seems to get stronger as the games go whilst Weso fades at times but i have no doubt that Weso will eclipse Clemence`s ability in the future. I am also sure that Weso is better at his age now than Clem was when he was 20 but for now, that edge of experience, know how and ability is noticeable.

Asking if DJ is better than Dodds is ridiculous too and doesnt need me to answer the question.

I'm also not saying that experienced players who are over the hill like a Horsfield are worth buying or even persevering with but there is no doubt that the likes of Dodds and Odhiambo would like to replicate the limited success of Horsfield and play in the Premiership one day. Hopefully they`ll score many more goals than him in the top two divisions but they need to prove they can do it regularly.

As for the youngsters who I have never or hardly seen like Dodds, King, Gradel or the rest, they need to show enough about them to be able to achieve what players like Kishishev has done in his career. To play as a regular International and be a first teamer in the premiership with Charlton is some achievement and more recently, he was named by Leeds as premiership class and there best player when he was there on loan last season.

Anyway all this talk is blah blah blah to me. If you are a young player who comes in and impresses, then you deserve to stay like Weso but what about the list of young players who have come in and don't secure a first team spot like Levi, Sheehan, Mattock, COG, Stearman, Logan??! They have hardly set the division alight have they? Why is that?

No-one is criticising what players like Horsfield or Kishishev have done ..... past tense.

But while you spit out the names of Porter, Sheehan CIG, Stearman, Logan, King, Gradel Dodds and Odhiambo, people who remain far too young to have made more than a token impression, I'd like to know in what way current experienced players, like Nielsen, Kishishev, Newton, Cort, DeVries have set our division alight - or even the fans in our own stadium?

There've been modest exceptions like Fulop, Clemence and, perhaps N'Gotty, but broadly our experienced players have disappointed me.

Indeed there is some evidence that all the players - experienced and otherwise - are being adversely affected by the contant changes of management, the logistics of accommodating so many new players and such a big squad, the exceptional pressure that Mandaric seems to apply and so on.

As for managing time and learning patterns, the youngsters mentioned are already well capable of that.

What they seem to have trouble doing is adjusting from an uncompromisingly positive approach to the endlessly cautious approach of successive first team managers - Allen excepted. Seeing Sheehan employed as a solely defensive left-back was just a glaring example.

Now there are calls for even more players to be brought in - loanees at that - when what is really needed is to properly integrate and examine what we have, which is considerably more than has been seen as yet.

I did think MA offered the first sign of hope with the Watford game but his getting sacked after a 4-1 win only emphasises the wacky world of Leicester City these days.

Now comes another change of the guard - yet you expect our young players to set divisions alight when even our experienced players are struggling on constantly shifting sands.

Get real. What this club needs first and foremost is leadership. Not a consortium. But one leader with one vision. Preferably an attacking one.

I cannot imagine it but if Megson's going to be that man, fine.

But it's interesting to see how my early preference for leader, Paul Ince, is flying at MK Dons.

[Wezleylowski]

Anyone know a AFC Bournemouth forum? I want to know what they think about Maxy

[Thracian]

Anyone know a AFC Bournemouth forum? I want to know what they think about Maxy

I know they didn't have get stuffed without him. Good game for him to miss by the sounds of it.

[Manwell Pablo]

I know they didn't have get stuffed without him. Good game for him to miss by the sounds of it.

Indeed, Billy Paynter hat trick. Poor Bournemouth.

[Geo V]

Gradel just scored.

[Samu]

Sounds like a half decent goal too. From the BBC:

60:49 GOAL - Max-Alain Gradel

Crewe 0 - Bournemouth 2Goal by Max-Alain Gradel (Bournemouth) drilled right-footed (top-right of goal) from right channel (20 yards).Crewe 0-2 Bournemouth. Assist (pass) by Lee Bradbury (Bournemouth) from left channel.

[Cobbo]

He's got a foot like a traction engine. Shit!

And there's another.

[Alexikokopops]

He's got a foot like a traction engine. Shit!

And there's another.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, Yes, YES, YES, YES, YES!!

That was a goooaaal!!

[Mark]

Come back Max.

[Joe.]

Great to see our youth doing well, especially a midfielder scoring two goals.

[Thracian]

Come back Max.

I'll second that. Cos I know what Gradel would have done wih a volley from five yards. Or 20 yards for that matter.

[Geo V]

I'll second that. Cos I know what Gradel would have done wih a volley from five yards. Or 20 yards for that matter.

How you can criticize Newtons performance without being there is amazing. He may have missed an easy chance from 5 yards but apparently played well and made one or two quality long passes.

Lets not get carried away with young Gradel eiether and just put today down as a great learning experience and confidence booster for the lad who obviously scored a couple in a winning team. If he continues to impress then maybe we can talk of getting him in the first team but then again you said on another thraed that you would stick yo 532 home and away so where would he fit in? No on the bench I hope as thats defies the whole point fo a loan.

[Thracian]

How you can criticize Newtons performance without being there is amazing. He may have missed an easy chance from 5 yards but apparently played well and made one or two quality long passes.

Lets not get carried away with young Gradel eiether and just put today down as a great learning experience and confidence booster for the lad who obviously scored a couple in a winning team. If he continues to impress then maybe we can talk of getting him in the first team but then again you said on another thraed that you would stick yo 532 home and away so where would he fit in? No on the bench I hope as thats defies the whole point fo a loan.

I didn't mention Newton's performance - only the fact that he failed to bury a chance from five yards (unless everyone's lying on the radio).

I've seen Gradel and Newton play lots of times. Both have good qualities and there is no real reason they shouldn't both play.

But Gradel is far more of a goal threat. Irrespective of what happened today.

And as has already been pointed out we desperately need more goals from outfield situations.

More natural scorers.

[Geo V]

I didn't mention Newton's performance - only the fact that he failed to bury a chance from five yards (unless everyone's lying on the radio).

I've seen Gradel and Newton play lots of times. Both have good qualities and there is no real reason they shouldn't both play.

But Gradel is far more of a goal threat. Irrespective of what happened today.

And as has already been pointed out we desperately need more goals from outfield situations.

More natural scorers.

So from what I have seen you write today, you`d stick with a 532 and you would play both of them? Out of curiosity, where, and also where do Clemence and Weso fit into this team and system?

Back to Newton, I dont think he has done enough to demand a place in the side if everyones fit and cant really say how well he played today as I wasnt there but to say that Gradel would have scored that chance that Newtons missed from 5 yards is totally fictional as who says he would have got in the position in the first place?

Hype, hype and a little more hype!

Anyway, please pick your ideal team in a 532 so I can understand your favourite team with Gradel in after his recall from loan.

[Thracian]

So from what I have seen you write today, you`d stick with a 532 and you would play both of them? Out of curiosity, where, and also where do Clemence and Weso fit into this team and system?

Back to Newton, I dont think he has done enough to demand a place in the side if everyones fit and cant really say how well he played today as I wasnt there but to say that Gradel would have scored that chance that Newtons missed from 5 yards is totally fictional as who says he would have got in the position in the first place?

Hype, hype and a little more hype!

Anyway, please pick your ideal team in a 532 so I can understand your favourite team with Gradel in after his recall from loan.

Have you EVER seen Gradel play? Get in the position? Gradel lives in or near the penalty box.

And as for fictional team picking why would I ever worry about what to do with everyone fit seeing that, in reality, it very rarely happens. And if it happens one week it doesn't happen the next.

Nor did I say I would stick with 5-3-2. I said that Megson would do that because it is his way and with the results he seems to be getting he's hardly likely to change. Furthermore I mentioned many times that 4-4-2 wasn't the system best suited to our current players.

However, if Gradel were an option you might justify changing/adapting or even alternating systems during the the same game.

[Chairman of the Bored]

Anyone know a AFC Bournemouth forum? I want to know what they think about Maxy

http://bournemouth.rivals.net/default.asp?sid=913

[Geo V]

Have you EVER seen Gradel play? Get in the position? Gradel lives in or near the penalty box.

And as for fictional team picking why would I ever worry about what to do with everyone fit seeing that, in reality, it very rarely happens. And if it happens one week it doesn't happen the next.

Nor did I say I would stick with 5-3-2. I said that Megson would do that because it is his way and with the results he seems to be getting he's hardly likely to change. Furthermore I mentioned many times that 4-4-2 wasn't the system best suited to our current players.

However, if Gradel were an option you might justify changing/adapting or even alternating systems during the the same game.

Thrac, all you do is shift the goalposts to save your argument. You clearly said this at 406pm on the match thread today...

Why would he change the system? He seems to have evolved the system to make us more attacking and the reason he likes the three centre-backs with wing-backs is to stop the defence leaking.

You are asking why should he change the system in response to me saying we should save this as an away formation and go more attacking at home. So which is it? Stick to 532 home and away or change it?

Anyway, the point is recalling Gradel too soon is pointless unless you are going to play him and it may be a bit too early for that. When he originally went on loan I thought that he could learn plenty at Bournemouth who have a tradition of playing football and have given some good players like Defoe in yesteryear the platform to get their embryonic carers going. I was equally as happy to learn that Darren Anderton as he was at his best when fit on the right and must be able to pass on his knowledge to him.

I think come January he`ll have a live chance of featuring within the squad but I wouldn't rush him back.

[Finnegan]

I'll second that. Cos I know what Gradel would have done wih a volley from five yards. Or 20 yards for that matter.

Fallen on his arse? All fairness to Newton, those things are never as easy as they look.

[Thracian]

Thrac, all you do is shift the goalposts to save your argument. You clearly said this at 406pm on the match thread today...

You are asking why should he change the system in response to me saying we should save this as an away formation and go more attacking at home. So which is it? Stick to 532 home and away or change it?

Anyway, the point is recalling Gradel too soon is pointless unless you are going to play him and it may be a bit too early for that. When he originally went on loan I thought that he could learn plenty at Bournemouth who have a tradition of playing football and have given some good players like Defoe in yesteryear the platform to get their embryonic carers going. I was equally as happy to learn that Darren Anderton as he was at his best when fit on the right and must be able to pass on his knowledge to him.

I think come January he`ll have a live chance of featuring within the squad but I wouldn't rush him back.

Exactly. Why would HE change his system. Not me.

You may be right about January but you may just as easily be wrong.

Do we want more outfield goals or not?

I've said we should use a creative midfielder like King for ages. Result? More fluid play and more chances.

I've said we should use a free-kick specialist. Result. Goals and more chances. And not just today.

And I'm saying we need more people in more positions who can score goals.

I like Newton in some ways but he's scored one one goal for us in 12 games.

Kaebi has shown no signs of being a goalscorer.

The one right midfielder we have who does score and who has lots of shots is Gradel. And just like King last season he's the one guy who doesn't get a chance.

Using any of these players doesn't preclude using others as well.

But if you want to win things you have to score and if you want to score you need to use people who are used to scoring and expect to score.

[BigGibbo]

Go on Gradel how longs the loan then we could do with him back in january or something I would prefer him to Newton as I know Newtons pretty average limits.

[Jay]

I have just heard on 606 that when he went of injured today for Bournemouth the Crewe fans gave him a standing ovation!!

he must have played well for his 2goals

[davieG]

Bournmouth Fan

Andy_AFCB Posted on 6/10 19:01

Email this Message | Edit | Reply re: Max Gradel A couple of 25 yarders as well!

[Mark]

From the Crewe OS.

Just after the hour mark, 'The Cherries' did double their advantage. They broke at pace and Vokes' ball across the middle of the park created a foot race between the darting Gradel and the covering O'Donnell and Billy Jones. The Bournemouth winger got there first and smashed an unstoppable shot past Ben Williams. It was a wonderful strike.

Crewe kept going looking for a spark to get back into the game but after Bopp and then Miller had another couple of half chances, the visitors' finished the game off on 76 minutes. Again Anderton was granted too much space and his simple pass into Gradel created another opening and his low shot deceived Williams at his near post.

Bournemouth stormed to a 4-1 victory with the impressive Max-Alain Gradel helping himself to two-second half goals. When he left the field towards the end of the game, Gradel received a very sporting standing ovation from both sets of supporters. He thoroughly deserved it too. He is the type of winger, we so desperately need.

[Kilworthfox]

Fantastic news cannot wait to see him recalled and placed firmly back in the reserves