Thracian's right.

[Thracian]

And asking when will we ever learn.

a) So much for the optimist who predicted we'd get 11 points from the next 15. I said we'd struggle to collect more than a few points and so far it's nought from six.

b) I said Gradel was our most dangerous winger and that we were crazy, in our predicament and with our desperate need for goals, to let him go back to Bournemouth instead of using him as an option. While our new wingers have scored and made nothing so far Gradel today scored another goal, his third since Bori/Laczko arrived, and helped Bournemouth to victory, and four goals to boot.

c) I said we'd generally need two goals a game to win our remaining matches. We failed to get that at Blackpool or to even threaten it and were just the same today except that we didn't score at all. Our shots on target over those two games would be embarrassingly low. We cannot continue like that and survive in this division.

d) People mocked me for saying we'd miss Shush!'s goals/assists/chance creation but where was the anticipation today when Clapham got the ball? There was none. And it was largely the same from dead ball situations. That we've exchanged Shush! or Mattock for Clapham hardly looks like an improvement and will certainly not help our "goals for" column.

e) Instead of talking about play-offs I said our inability to score sufficient goals would put us in the relegation dogfight. That is patently obvious now and I don't anticipate that solutions will be easy any longer.

f) I've said that Hume's not a winger and that playing him out wide would negate his impact as a striker. I'm not sure he had a single shot today and he a stranger in the box despite his usual 100% effort.

g) My concerns about our distribution from the back were only further highlighted today by passing that was as bad as I've ever seen it and that says something. McAuley wouldn't play the simple ball and Alnwick rarely took the throw-out option even when he had one which wasn't nearly often enough. Result? another disjointed performance where we had one 10 minute spell of football early on and another little spell when Fryatt came on near the end. Fifteen minutes of "attitude" over 90 won't get us anywhere.

Sooner or later we will have to put such things right but I'm rather beginning to fear we'll insist on learning the hard way.

[Darkzzz_]

Good Post...

I dont agree with all of it, but i can see what you are outlining to us!!

I am very concerned for our football club..

Im sure ollie will understand how pissed of we ae but im not going to call for his head, he puts faith in these players and they let him and us down!!!

On your mention about gradel... he is a very talented youngster, but like all of them, can he take that extra step up and be consistent on a regular basis in the championship, is he ready for it thracian??

[TrickyTrev]

b) I said Gradel was our most dangerous winger and that we were crazy, in our predicament and with our desperate need for goals, to let him go back to Bournemouth instead of using him as an option. While our new wingers have scored and made nothing so far Gradel today scored another goal, his third since Bori/Laczko arrived, and helped Bournemouth to victory, and four goals to boot.

The Hungarians have hardly played and when they have they have been by-passed. Just because Maxi has scored those goals for Bournemouth does not mean he would do the same for us, not only is it a harder division but we also make little or no use of our wide players.

c) I said we'd generally need two goals a game to win our remaining matches. We failed to get that at Blackpool or to even threaten it and were just the same today except that we didn't score at all. Our shots on target over those two games would be embarrassingly low. We cannot continue like that and survive in this division.

Who is arguing that you don't need to score goals to win? We played 4 forwards today, it is not a lack of ambition to score goals just a glaring lack of method.

d) People mocked me for saying we'd miss Shush!'s goals/assists/chance creation but where was the anticipation today when Clapham got the ball? There was none. And it was largely the same from dead ball situations. That we've exchanged Shush! or Mattock for Clapham hardly looks like an improvement and will certainly not help our "goals for" column.

We should have had a couple of goals from set pieces today, Clemence and Hume both have good delivery. At no one point does anyone other than yourself get a sense of anticipation when Shush! picks the ball up in the left back position. At least Mattock can move forward with the ball.

f) I've said that Hume's not a winger and that playing him out wide would negate his impact as a striker. I'm not sure he had a single shot today and he a stranger in the box despite his usual 100% effort.

Correct

g) My concerns about our distribution from the back were only further highlighted today by passing that was as bad as I've ever seen it and that says something. McAuley wouldn't play the simple ball and Alnwick rarely took the throw-out option even when he had one which wasn't nearly often enough. Result? another disjointed performance where we had one 10 minute spell of football early on and another little spell when Fryatt came on near the end. Fifteen minutes of "attitude" over 90 won't get us anywhere.

I agree having two centre back that can't pass is one of the major reasons for our position.

Most people laughed at those talking of play offs and said we need to get out of the relegation fight first. The things you are right about are the things obvious to a lot of people, everything else is still very much debatable.

[Manwell Pablo]

Excellent post, saved me alot of typing.

[Tommy G]

And asking when will we ever learn.

a) So much for the optimist who predicted we'd get 11 points from the next 15. I said we'd struggle to collect more than a few points and so far it's nought from six.

b) I said Gradel was our most dangerous winger and that we were crazy, in our predicament and with our desperate need for goals, to let him go back to Bournemouth instead of using him as an option. While our new wingers have scored and made nothing so far Gradel today scored another goal, his third since Bori/Laczko arrived, and helped Bournemouth to victory, and four goals to boot.

c) I said we'd generally need two goals a game to win our remaining matches. We failed to get that at Blackpool or to even threaten it and were just the same today except that we didn't score at all. Our shots on target over those two games would be embarrassingly low. We cannot continue like that and survive in this division.

d) People mocked me for saying we'd miss Shush!'s goals/assists/chance creation but where was the anticipation today when Clapham got the ball? There was none. And it was largely the same from dead ball situations. That we've exchanged Shush! or Mattock for Clapham hardly looks like an improvement and will certainly not help our "goals for" column.

e) Instead of talking about play-offs I said our inability to score sufficient goals would put us in the relegation dogfight. That is patently obvious now and I don't anticipate that solutions will be easy any longer.

f) I've said that Hume's not a winger and that playing him out wide would negate his impact as a striker. I'm not sure he had a single shot today and he a stranger in the box despite his usual 100% effort.

g) My concerns about our distribution from the back were only further highlighted today by passing that was as bad as I've ever seen it and that says something. McAuley wouldn't play the simple ball and Alnwick rarely took the throw-out option even when he had one which wasn't nearly often enough. Result? another disjointed performance where we had one 10 minute spell of football early on and another little spell when Fryatt came on near the end. Fifteen minutes of "attitude" over 90 won't get us anywhere.

Sooner or later we will have to put such things right but I'm rather beginning to fear we'll insist on learning the hard way.

I agree with you to an extent..

On the whole Shee han issue, I think that most people on here don't mind him. A couple of noticeable people on this forum have grown tired of what they see as your "I love Alan Shee han threads" and other people who are associated with that bum group have jumped on the bandwagon.

Shee han does give us options from a dead ball, and is certainly better than Clapham (on a one game basis) who was shite today, defended average, and didn't offer anything going forward.

I don't even wan't to analyse anymore, it won't help the current shag situation at our football club, I hope Ollie's sleeping tight tonight.

[Babylon]

Excellent post, saved me alot of typing.

Which one... mine :-)

[Manwell Pablo]

Which one... mine :-)

No Babs, yours saved me typing three words

[Ultra]

I don't even want to analyse anymore, it won't help the current shag situation at our football club, I hope Ollie's sleeping tight tonight.

..along with everyone on here who hailed Milan Mandaric as our "saviour".

TEN home defeats later, it's clear how wrong they were..

[Flynny]

Thracian: Clapham looked bloody good and is what we need at left-back at the moment.

Apart from that I agree with you. You could even credibly start talking about "chosen men" again, actually, because that team would have looked a darn sight better with people other than Clemence, McAuley, Hayles and Hume (for right-wing, anyway).

Seriously, Bori off? Why not Hume off and Bori to right-wing?

[Simi]

Thrac - Clapham did exactly what was asked of him yesterday.

Everything he did defensively was done with confidence and calmness. I was impressed by him. Holloway isn't expecting him to be darting forward and knocking 70 yard passes about.

What he does need is a genuine winger in front of him. Yesterday he had a combination of Hayles, Hume and Bori - None genuine left wingers.

[Thracian]

Thrac - Clapham did exactly what was asked of him yesterday.

Everything he did defensively was done with confidence and calmness. I was impressed by him. Holloway isn't expecting him to be darting forward and knocking 70 yard passes about.

What he does need is a genuine winger in front of him. Yesterday he had a combination of Hayles, Hume and Bori - None genuine left wingers.

I don't wish to be especially critical of Clapham.

Apart from "his man" being free for the goal my point about clapham is that he's only half the player we need.

He simply doesn't have enough impact and at 32 is hardly likely to develop such characteristics.

Football is all about having players who make things happen.

And that's just as important for a left-back as a centre-forward. Because little advantages can make the difference between promotion and staying put.

[Dames]

I don't wish to be especially critical of Clapham.

Apart from "his man" being free for the goal my point about clapham is that he's only half the player we need.

He simply doesn't have enough impact and at 32 is hardly likely to develop such characteristics.

Football is all about having players who make things happen.

And that's just as important for a left-back as a centre-forward. Because little advantages can make the difference between promotion and staying put.

ALAN Shush! WOULD NOT HAVE DONE ANY BETTER AT ALL.

Drop your silly little vendetta. Shush! is gone thats it end of. Stop whinging about the other left backs and get on with it.

[Simi]

I don't wish to be especially critical of Clapham.

Apart from "his man" being free for the goal my point about clapham is that he's only half the player we need.

He simply doesn't have enough impact and at 32 is hardly likely to develop such characteristics.

Football is all about having players who make things happen.

And that's just as important for a left-back as a centre-forward. Because little advantages can make the difference between promotion and staying put.

Yeah I agree with you, but, Ollie knows exactly what he's getting from him.

For the Clapham thing to work - he needs someone with a bit of knowhow in-front of him, someone that can do a lot of attacking work. Hume or Hayles are not the answer for this.

Finally, I fear the differences you talk about should be the difference between being relegated and staying up!

[Joe.]

a) So much for the optimist who predicted we'd get 11 points from the next 15. I said we'd struggle to collect more than a few points and so far it's nought from six.

You weren't the only one there. Just a handful of our fans who view Leicester through rose-tinted glasses actually believed we'd get that amount of points.

b) I said Gradel was our most dangerous winger and that we were crazy, in our predicament and with our desperate need for goals, to let him go back to Bournemouth instead of using him as an option. While our new wingers have scored and made nothing so far Gradel today scored another goal, his third since Bori/Laczko arrived, and helped Bournemouth to victory, and four goals to boot.

You're right Gradel's been great for Bournemouth and there's no doubt he could do no better than what we already have. However, it's League One standard and not all that great to compare to Championship.

c) I said we'd generally need two goals a game to win our remaining matches. We failed to get that at Blackpool or to even threaten it and were just the same today except that we didn't score at all. Our shots on target over those two games would be embarrassingly low. We cannot continue like that and survive in this division.

We can, even if it's not ideal. We still have the best defensive record in the Championship and we can score goals. Even though it's not looking likely we can still nick 1-0's and get draws.

d) People mocked me for saying we'd miss Shush!'s goals/assists/chance creation but where was the anticipation today when Clapham got the ball? There was none. And it was largely the same from dead ball situations. That we've exchanged Shush! or Mattock for Clapham hardly looks like an improvement and will certainly not help our "goals for" column.

We struggled with Sheehan, why should he be any different now? He's on loan at Leeds for a reason, the fact he's not good enough all round to get into our first team.

e) Instead of talking about play-offs I said our inability to score sufficient goals would put us in the relegation dogfight. That is patently obvious now and I don't anticipate that solutions will be easy any longer.

You are right there. But we can use our defence to our advantage and as I said before, try and steal 1-0's where we can. I don't always agree with Ollie's at times Gung Ho football and it has sometimes been our downfall.

f) I've said that Hume's not a winger and that playing him out wide would negate his impact as a striker. I'm not sure he had a single shot today and he a stranger in the box despite his usual 100% effort.

Agreed, definitely not a right winger. Needs to be dropped there for his own sake.

g) My concerns about our distribution from the back were only further highlighted today by passing that was as bad as I've ever seen it and that says something. McAuley wouldn't play the simple ball and Alnwick rarely took the throw-out option even when he had one which wasn't nearly often enough. Result? another disjointed performance where we had one 10 minute spell of football early on and another little spell when Fryatt came on near the end. Fifteen minutes of "attitude" over 90 won't get us anywhere.

Again I agree, but how long as it been like this for? And how many other Championship teams do you see passing it out from the back? Not many I don't think. It's just the way the league's played and the way we keep insisting on playing. The lack of movement in and around midfield doesn't exactly help McAuley or Kisnorbo to be fair.

[Thracian]

ALAN Shush! WOULD NOT HAVE DONE ANY BETTER AT ALL.

Drop your silly little vendetta. Shush! is gone thats it end of. Stop whinging about the other left backs and get on with it.

Chances were created by Shush! every game he played - usually at least three or four and that won't be the case with Clapham, competent though he is.

This isn't about Shush! the individual. If we'd brought in an improved version of Shush! that would have been fine but we really cannot afford to reduce our attacking capability at all in our circumstances.

And that's what we've done and to make matter's worse , Hume's been virtually neutralised out on the wing and our fastest forward is kept on the bench.

[The Reverend]

Will Thracian make his mind up whether he's ****ing right or wrong!

[reynard]

I don't wish to be especially critical of Clapham.

Apart from "his man" being free for the goal my point about clapham is that he's only half the player we need.

He simply doesn't have enough impact and at 32 is hardly likely to develop such characteristics.

Football is all about having players who make things happen.

And that's just as important for a left-back as a centre-forward. Because little advantages can make the difference between promotion and staying put.

Excpet the real problem stemmed from the fact that the original free kick was not cleared because neither chambers nor mccauley bothered to make a challenge.

[Ultra]

We can, even if it's not ideal. We still have the best defensive record in the Championship and we can score goals. Even though it's not looking likely we can still nick 1-0's and get draws.

We've actually only had ONE 1-0 win (Palace) all season.

The reason why our defence has conceded the fewest goals is because teams coming to the Way know that once they go in front, they can sit on the lead knowing our clueless midfield and powder-puff attack is unlikely to threaten it.

We struggled with Sheehan, why should he be any different now? He's on loan at Leeds for a reason, the fact he's not good enough all round to get into our first team.

This is the same Leeds team that let Clapham go, and I saw very little on Saturday to suggest they were wrong to do so.

You are right there. But we can use our defence to our advantage and as I said before, try and steal 1-0's where we can. I don't always agree with Ollie's at times Gung Ho football and it has sometimes been our downfall.

This is the kind of mentality which has taken us to where we are. Levein, Kelly and Megson tried this approach with little success. Filling players' heads with negative thoughts is hardly going to inspire them. We should not be afraid of ANY team in this league!

[Tevez]

I thought Clapham was half at fault with the goal yesterday.

[teblin]

And asking when will we ever learn.

a) So much for the optimist who predicted we'd get 11 points from the next 15. I said we'd struggle to collect more than a few points and so far it's nought from six.

b) I said Gradel was our most dangerous winger and that we were crazy, in our predicament and with our desperate need for goals, to let him go back to Bournemouth instead of using him as an option. While our new wingers have scored and made nothing so far Gradel today scored another goal, his third since Bori/Laczko arrived, and helped Bournemouth to victory, and four goals to boot.

c) I said we'd generally need two goals a game to win our remaining matches. We failed to get that at Blackpool or to even threaten it and were just the same today except that we didn't score at all. Our shots on target over those two games would be embarrassingly low. We cannot continue like that and survive in this division.

d) People mocked me for saying we'd miss Shush!'s goals/assists/chance creation but where was the anticipation today when Clapham got the ball? There was none. And it was largely the same from dead ball situations. That we've exchanged Shush! or Mattock for Clapham hardly looks like an improvement and will certainly not help our "goals for" column.

e) Instead of talking about play-offs I said our inability to score sufficient goals would put us in the relegation dogfight. That is patently obvious now and I don't anticipate that solutions will be easy any longer.

f) I've said that Hume's not a winger and that playing him out wide would negate his impact as a striker. I'm not sure he had a single shot today and he a stranger in the box despite his usual 100% effort.

g) My concerns about our distribution from the back were only further highlighted today by passing that was as bad as I've ever seen it and that says something. McAuley wouldn't play the simple ball and Alnwick rarely took the throw-out option even when he had one which wasn't nearly often enough. Result? another disjointed performance where we had one 10 minute spell of football early on and another little spell when Fryatt came on near the end. Fifteen minutes of "attitude" over 90 won't get us anywhere.

Sooner or later we will have to put such things right but I'm rather beginning to fear we'll insist on learning the hard way.

you do make some sense, but Shush! was first and formost a left back, and he just can't defend. Highlighted by the fact he has been booked so many time because he hasd to pull people back or bring them down.

[Daggers]

In response to generic Thracian post #27, I offer generic replies #32, #17 and #94 and glib off the cuff remark #14

[Asha]

In response to generic Thracian post #27, I offer generic replies #32, #17 and #94 and glib off the cuff remark #14

Why would Jesus say don't be a dick?

[Zingari]

Why would Jesus say don't be a dick?

cos he'd have to cut your foreskin off

[Asha]

cos he'd have to cut your foreskin off

OK not that I'm a jew or anything just didn't get it

[DB11]

Tbh, I want a left back, who is a defender, to DEFEND. I couldn't care less if they are a good option coming forward, what about when they lose the ball and the opposition attack down our left flank and our left back is no where to be seen?