Ghosts

[Captain...]

I'm arrogant because I laugh at you making up statistics?

Your posts are a joke, your evidence is invisible, your logic absent. Show me where this 99% stat comes from. Show me evidence of ghosts. Show me some fact or stop with your immature prattle and rambling, pointless prose.

Making up statistics, because I said we know less than a fraction of a percent of everything there was to know about our world, yes it is not a real statistic, how can you have a real value on what you know compared to what you don't.

It was making a point that despite having a vast wealth of knowledge there is still a fvck load more that we don't know, if there wasn't then all scientific endeavour would stop. As it is we are pumping millions of pounds daily still trying to discover more about our world, our planet, our universe.

In this huge amount of unknown and unexplainable there is room to believe that when thousands of people every year claim to have seen a ghost there is actually something there, I have at no point said that I believe that these visions/feelings are the restless spirits of the dead, but there is enough anecdotal evidence around to suggest something is there and that would reside in the huge amount of knowledge and understanding that we lack.

[Guest]

Jim Morrison?

[Guest]

Making up statistics, because I said we know less than a fraction of a percent of everything there was to know about our world, yes it is not a real statistic, how can you have a real value on what you know compared to what you don't.

It was making a point that despite having a vast wealth of knowledge there is still a fvck load more that we don't know, if there wasn't then all scientific endeavour would stop. As it is we are pumping millions of pounds daily still trying to discover more about our world, our planet, our universe.

In this huge amount of unknown and unexplainable there is room to believe that when thousands of people every year claim to have seen a ghost there is actually something there, I have at no point said that I believe that these visions/feelings are the restless spirits of the dead, but there is enough anecdotal evidence around to suggest something is there and that would reside in the huge amount of knowledge and understanding that we lack.

Thousands Millions of people believed their politicians who told them that WMD existed in Iraq. Didn't make it true though.

[Daggers]

I just thought I heard the ghost of Robin Gibb in my garden a second ago - then I realised it was just the chive talking.

[Rincewind]

Ricky Gervais ‏@rickygervais

Saw a docu once where people who believed they were reincarnated met once a year at a "come as you were party" 2 Napoleons turned up. Haha

[Finnegan]

There are some points where I feel Shrappers has shot himself in the foot and points where I just outright disagree (we understand a fraction of a percent of our planet? Really?) but I don't think there's much harm in the underlying core of his point; it's something I agree with. Moreover, I'd say it's something that's really just stating the obvious.

On a universal scale there's still so much we don't know that you'd have to be naive beyond belief to rule out a certain degree of phenomena beyond our current understanding of science. If you take creation theories back far enough there's always a point at which we don't know and we can't theorize. It's impossible to really get your head around infinity and explain how the very first atoms and particles came to be from nothingness and there's a beauty and a romance to that.

I think the problem people have is that they make a distinct separation between spiritual beliefs and science. Who's to say there aren't extra-terrestrial life forms with a power and an awareness so vastly superior to our own that their influence over ourselves is impossible to comprehend? Of course, it's such an immensely wishy-washy idea that it's almost a coward's way out in an argument to reinforce it's possibility but at the same time it can't be ruled out by contemporary science.

That's my problem with Dawkins style militant atheism, it's really just another religion, another set of values to believe with a concrete certainty that - actually - is beyond the understanding of the majority.

I loathe organized religion and I wouldn't say I have any distinct faith in the obvious sense (gods, prayer, afterlives, souls, etc) but I'd consider myself agnostic purely because I think there's a single-minded stupidity in being absolutely anything else. We're less than a blip in a universe we can't explore ourselves beyond our own moon. Who in their right mind can put a cap on the possibilities?

(Oh, but ghost stories are still bullshit.)

[Webbo]

That's my problem with Dawkins style militant atheism, it's really just another religion, another set of values to believe with a concrete certainty that - actually - is beyond the understanding of the majority.

I loathe organized religion and I wouldn't say I have any distinct faith in the obvious sense (gods, prayer, afterlives, souls, etc) but I'd consider myself agnostic purely because I think there's a single-minded stupidity in being absolutely anything else. We're less than a blip in a universe we can't explore ourselves beyond our own moon. Who in their right mind can put a cap on the possibilities?

(Oh, but ghost stories are still bullshit.)

Well said.

[Bellend Sebastian]

More ghost stories please

[Rincewind]

Watchin Wonders of The Universe Prof Brian Cox on BBC4 right now. Program about Titan on after.

[Webbo]

Watchin Wonders of The Universe Prof Brian Cox on BBC4 right now. Program about Titan on after.

I think a poltergeist has moved your post Ken.What are you watching now thread is here http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/topic/48703-what-are-you-watching-now/page__pid__2259339__st__5260#entry2259339

[Rincewind]

Well the subject had turned to the universe and everything so I thought it fitted well.

[BoneDog]

Interesting read.

I'm not sure where the link between 'ghosts' and religion comes in though. I've not seen one religion that says humans can come back as a ghost. It would be shit hot if you could though (I'd get revenge on the guy who shot my dog).......but you can't.

When we die, I'm afraid we're off to a different dimension where time goes faster and we can't get back. It will seem like we were not here but for a minute. Word.

[BoneDog]

Errm . . .

Your starting to worry me abit now

You had a chat with a 'Demon' ?

I wouldn't worry. It might not have been a demon. I had drinked 16 pints and woke up in the middle of the night. I started talking, in the dark, to what I thought was a person in a chair but a few minutes later after alot of slurred jokes from me, I heard said person behind me waking up in bed. Even though I was steaming I shat my pants and could have sworn there was something there! I'm pretty sure it had a curly wig on and I remember saying something like " 'Kin ell you wearing that for you crazy fool?!".

I also once woke up in one of those round washing basket/bin things on wheels in the bedroom. The thing is, the wash bin had been in the kitchen (3 rooms away in a Bungalow) that evening, so something had got me out of bed, put me in the wash bin and wheeled me back into the bedroom and left me to sleep.

Another time I woke up in a different room to where I'd gone to sleep, on top of a dining table lying atop a quilt that had been spread over dining table, with my pants soaked in piss. (I sold the table after that, it was too distressing to keep)

I'd like to see the sceptics explain those two episodes without demons or inept aliens being involved.

And the Elite conjure them up, to float around, scratch pipes and throw books around, they also occasionally strike up conversation with nutters

No that's not what they conjure them up for. What you describe is just what happens when some of the unseen things stick around.

Anyway, don't shoot the messenger, I'm not into all this stuff, just reporting on what some of the elite and their cronies get up to. I hate demons with a passion. They're bang out of order.

[BoneDog]

Give him a warning point. Forum rules clearly state 'no pimping'.

[Guest]

I wouldn't worry. It might not have been a demon. I had drinked 16 pints and woke up in the middle of the night. I started talking, in the dark, to what I thought was a person in a chair but a few minutes later after alot of slurred jokes from me, I heard said person behind me waking up in bed. Even though I was steaming I shat my pants and could have sworn there was something there! I'm pretty sure it had a curly wig on and I remember saying something like " 'Kin ell you wearing that for you crazy fool?!".

I also once woke up in one of those round washing basket/bin things on wheels in the bedroom. The thing is, the wash bin had been in the kitchen (3 rooms away in a Bungalow) that evening, so something had got me out of bed, put me in the wash bin and wheeled me back into the bedroom and left me to sleep.

Another time I woke up in a different room to where I'd gone to sleep, on top of a dining table lying atop a quilt that had been spread over dining table, with my pants soaked in piss. (I sold the table after that, it was too distressing to keep)

I'd like to see the sceptics explain those two episodes without demons or inept aliens being involved.

No that's not what they conjure them up for. What you describe is just what happens when some of the unseen things stick around.

Anyway, don't shoot the messenger, I'm not into all this stuff, just reporting on what some of the elite and their cronies get up to. I hate demons with a passion. They're bang out of order.

Could being a pisshead be a possible explanation?

[Tomassi]

An interesting debate in here...

Going on the topic title, to expand on ghosts I definately would say there are ''spiritual presences''. As said before in this thread by others, too many stories and personal accounts to not rule it out completely from a scientific angle. From a personal point of view in terms of seeing, I agree that there are imprints that may make us 'see' things. I thought I saw my cat a few days after she died, but it was a place where she always used to stand and it was just my memory playing tricks on me. Much as I think the same as someones gran on here.

Going onto a different approach and there are plenty of spiritual accounts in The Bible, including where demons were cast out of people. Speaking to some Christians, they have witnessed first hand accounts of these things still happening today including one story of a demon being cast out of someone and they were thrown across the room with no visibly physical force witnessed. Yes it could all be play acting, or there could be a scientific explanation, but I guess its something that you would need to see yourself and evaluate.

One thing I have definately found is that Science, whilst beautiful and incredible as a whole, and something that we cant live without, always changes. That is true. Obviously there are many confirmed facts that will remain the same, but still many 'facts' that will change. Its also interesting to see that Science hasnt disproved anything in The Bible, if anything its proved a lot of it to be true and continues to do so. And thats the only thing that stays the same and so far has stood the test of time. Things like mountains in the oceans, cleansing by running water, even earth floating in space have all come good over the years.

[MooseBreath]

The bible: practically a scientific text book.

[purpleronnie]

An interesting debate in here...

Going on the topic title, to expand on ghosts I definately would say there are ''spiritual presences''. As said before in this thread by others, too many stories and personal accounts to not rule it out completely from a scientific angle. From a personal point of view in terms of seeing, I agree that there are imprints that may make us 'see' things. I thought I saw my cat a few days after she died, but it was a place where she always used to stand and it was just my memory playing tricks on me. Much as I think the same as someones gran on here.

Going onto a different approach and there are plenty of spiritual accounts in The Bible, including where demons were cast out of people. Speaking to some Christians, they have witnessed first hand accounts of these things still happening today including one story of a demon being cast out of someone and they were thrown across the room with no visibly physical force witnessed. Yes it could all be play acting, or there could be a scientific explanation, but I guess its something that you would need to see yourself and evaluate.

One thing I have definately found is that Science, whilst beautiful and incredible as a whole, and something that we cant live without, always changes. That is true. Obviously there are many confirmed facts that will remain the same, but still many 'facts' that will change. Its also interesting to see that Science hasnt disproved anything in The Bible, if anything its proved a lot of it to be true and continues to do so. And thats the only thing that stays the same and so far has stood the test of time. Things like mountains in the oceans, cleansing by running water, even earth floating in space have all come good over the years.

Its hard to prove that noah built a boat that held 20 million species but logically do you think that happend?

I could say that fairies exist, prove me wrong. or theirs a turnip orbiting saturn, prove me wrong.

I'm not going to get into a debate about whether god exists because you cant prove he/she does or doesn't.

[Bellend Sebastian]

My other half works in a building that is pretty much a Scooby Doo haunted house

[Rincewind]

In Terry Pratchett's Discworld books things happen because they are believe not because they are logical. For instance the status of a god depends on how much they are prayed to. For instance a god that can make Man Utd have a penalty every week at OLd Trafford is always available but a got to make Matt Mills to make an accurate pass is nowhere to be found.

[Tomassi]

I'm not going to get into a debate about whether god exists because you cant prove he/she does or doesn't.

no need to as the threads about Ghosts... just offering a different view

[MooseBreath]

Has science not disproved that it is possible to walk on water, to turn water into wine, to turn fish & bread into more fish & bread, or to come back from the dead and all those kind of things then?

[Rincewind]

Obviously they didn't do the right tests. (A Theologian answer)

[Guest]

My other half works in a building that is pretty much a Scooby Doo haunted house

Did your aunty live there?

[Guest]

Has science not disproved that it is possible to walk on water, to turn water into wine, to turn fish & bread into more fish & bread, or to come back from the dead and all those kind of things then?

I wouldn't have thought so. It's pretty impossible to prove that something can't be done.

I see no reason why man can't walk on water in the future (aided by science) insects can walk on water therefore man should be able to. Who would have thought that man (or tonnes of metal) could fly?

Water into wine will be possible one day. It's just about reforming molecules etc... The whole idea of Nanoscience says that we will be able to do that.

People do come back from the dead now, thanks to the advances in medicine a person's heart and breathing can stop and be re-started.