Finnegan Posted 15 July 2008 Posted 15 July 2008 While I think Phube's logic is entirely irrational and his perspective somewhat immature, one thing it is fair to note is that his point of view comes more or less entirely from the mind of a games fan while our own is heavily music based. I've downloaded two games in my entire life and I've not gone on to buy either of them. The same principals just don't really apply. I believe the internet has the potential to make a band as much as break the industry and I've voiced my love of both my CD collection and file sharing already, but I'm not sure the same can be said of the game's industry.
Dr The Singh Posted 15 July 2008 Posted 15 July 2008 Phube: 1. SIngh is King (As Snopp Doggy Dogg would say, and yes I will downloading the sountrack but I will the movie in the picture's on 8th August 2. Listen to the track, no fookcer on the western world has a powerful voice as the Mattu especially live and yes i will downloading the album!! The track is alcohol related which makes it more enjoyable and yes, due to the likes of me not buying the album the tracks and video will be raw and not 'pop' shite!! Thank You
Daggers Posted 15 July 2008 Posted 15 July 2008 While I think Phube's logic is entirely irrational and his perspective somewhat immature, one thing it is fair to note is that his point of view comes more or less entirely from the mind of a games fan while our own is heavily music based. I've downloaded two games in my entire life and I've not gone on to buy either of them. The same principals just don't really apply.I believe the internet has the potential to make a band as much as break the industry and I've voiced my love of both my CD collection and file sharing already, but I'm not sure the same can be said of the game's industry. True, and yet false. I like everything that goes with a new game and pretty much do the same thing with them that I do with music. I got the previous FM for free - but went and bought it a couple of months later. I still buy all of my games for the 360 - it's just the DS I "steal". There's no revenue lost in doing so though as I'd not buy a single new DS game otherwise, the quality simply isn't there to encourage me to do so. I've a stack of PC games too - none of them, not one, is a pirate because I like the packaging and related ephemera (like you said for CD's). I download e-books, but I still buy two or three books a month. I download audio books - but, again, I'd never consider buying one...and a number are books I already own. So the parallel is there in that it still encourages interest in the medium - I listened to a book on Maths recently (downloaded for free) while walking the dog and as a result bought three cracking books about primes and mathematical research. I'd not have done that without the file-sharing. I doubt I'd have bought Lego Indiana Jones without having played it on the DS first, although this is totally unprovable. The games industry is feeling the benefit of increased consumer awareness as much as the film industry is - people still clamour for their product.
Finnegan Posted 15 July 2008 Posted 15 July 2008 Mmmh, I don't know. I just question if my own logic for downloading music applies to games. There aren't really a vast quantity of non-mainstream games I'd consider playing, everything that I'd play is out there in the open in mainstream games magazines and all over IGN and the like. I don't need to go out of my way to discover them or to sample them. Demos are freely available left right and center and are usually a fair sample of the game, unlike - say - demo tracks on Amazon which are about twenty odd seconds of a chorus. I hear what you're saying, but I'm just not sure I'd personally apply the same ethics to it. I do like owning a game, sure, the same as I do a CD - but the two games I've downloaded in my life, neither of them I went on to buy. It doesn't give me the same joy.
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 15 July 2008 Posted 15 July 2008 Regardless of the reasons though - in the eye's of the current law, it's theft, no dennying it. The needs to justify it just show you have a concious and a view as to why it's ok to do what you do, which i suppose is better than just a - meh! I don't want to go into the crap about money going to terroists and all that - and ok so the multi million $ industry may deserve it. But however you coat it, however much merchandise you purchase from the back of 'file sharing' it doesn't make it legal. Now true, I don't always keep to the speed limit - but I know if I'm caught I'm in the wrong, regardless of my reasons for doing it. Some may argue that the speed limit should be increased, but it doesn't mean that they can drive faster because of they're beliefs.
Daggers Posted 15 July 2008 Posted 15 July 2008 Mmmh, I don't know. I just question if my own logic for downloading music applies to games. But the fact that you are not a serial downloader of game software proves the point. You don't steal just because it is there. It's probably the weakest aspect of any argument I've put forward - for me it's a balance. As I said in some previous thread, I've been buying games since they came on tape for the Spectrum in the 70's and the vast majority of those games were shite. They garnered rave reviews from magazines...but that was because the magazines relied on the revenue from the games manufacturers advertising. For me, I believe I've been ripped off so many times I feel fully justified in loading up the DS with software...especially when you see that most of that is crap too. The parallel applies perfectly (for me) for film and TV series. I download a huge amount of them to watch when commuting or whenever the wife is watching something dire (everything usually on TV). The good stuff get purchased so I can watch it in a good aspect ratio with a nice set of packaging: Prison Break, Family Guy, South Park, LOTR etc. But most of what I watch doesn't get bought - I'd have been ****ing livid if I'd bought that Liam Neeson bollocks on the back of all the rave reviews it got. Atonement? I watched that last weekend and walked off leaving the wife to it. Shockingly crap. It works for me.
Daggers Posted 15 July 2008 Posted 15 July 2008 Regardless of the reasons though - in the eye's of the current law, it's theft, no dennying it. The needs to justify it just show you have a concious and a view as to why it's ok to do what you do, which i suppose is better than just a - meh!I don't want to go into the crap about money going to terroists and all that - and ok so the multi million $ industry may deserve it. But however you coat it, however much merchandise you purchase from the back of 'file sharing' it doesn't make it legal. Now true, I don't always keep to the speed limit - but I know if I'm caught I'm in the wrong, regardless of my reasons for doing it. Some may argue that the speed limit should be increased, but it doesn't mean that they can drive faster because of they're beliefs. Two points: a) Money doesn't go to terrorists. What money is generated from file sharing? b) Just because something is a law doesn't mean it is a good or a just law. I'm guessing that if you trotted out the bit about terrorists then you are too young to remember the poll tax. Middle England revolted - old ladies who hold tea mornings at the WI stopped paying their poll tax because it was unjust. They broke a crap law to get it changed. That is how society evolves.
Phube Posted 15 July 2008 Author Posted 15 July 2008 Two points:a) Money doesn't go to terrorists. What money is generated from file sharing? b) Just because something is a law doesn't mean it is a good or a just law. I'm guessing that if you trotted out the bit about terrorists then you are too young to remember the poll tax. Middle England revolted - old ladies who hold tea mornings at the WI stopped paying their poll tax because it was unjust. They broke a crap law to get it changed. That is how society evolves. Don't get me started on Poll Tax... it was just (IMO)... much more so than charging you for the value of your house 10 years ago!!
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 15 July 2008 Posted 15 July 2008 Two points:a) Money doesn't go to terrorists. What money is generated from file sharing? b) Just because something is a law doesn't mean it is a good or a just law. I'm guessing that if you trotted out the bit about terrorists then you are too young to remember the poll tax. Middle England revolted - old ladies who hold tea mornings at the WI stopped paying their poll tax because it was unjust. They broke a crap law to get it changed. That is how society evolves. I didn't pay poll tax if that's what you mean - but it's been replaced with the Council Tax which isn't any better as I understand. There's lots of un-fairness is the world, and if someone makes a lawful protest - I have no problem with that. But it's when it crosses that boundary and people feel they have a right due to preceived unfairness to break laws when society crashes. I suppose in a way your arguing if more people did it, then it would soon become accpetable, and the law changed - and i expect that may just happen. But end of the day, however you get your material, whether free or not, someone pays for it in the end, whether it be the honest consumer, or the employee made redundant due to falling profits, because a company strives to make profits and will always put that in front anything else. Finally - the terroists thing - thats one of the things that was brought into this area of priating and to some extent file sharing - the terroists may even be offering this file sharing stuff to get your bank details etc, etc, etc - yes alarmist theory. I don't really know if this is the case and don't care, my point is just because you don't like a law doesn't make it ok to break it. (And no i'm not a saint.) But Daggers - I suppose the games companies won't be after the likes of you anyway - they're after the serial downloaders who than exploit it and make profit themselves.
lookwhaticando Posted 15 July 2008 Posted 15 July 2008 Lovin' the work in here guys and gals... One minute we're on about 40 quid games, the next we're on about terrorists and poll taxes. Love it.
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 15 July 2008 Posted 15 July 2008 Yeah and i don't know what I'm really trying to achive - mean Daggers isn't going to repent and become a preist or turn himself in at the nearest police station exclaiming 'it was me, I' the downloader the news was on about' So great, what a great wasted afternoon instead of doing work. But i've figured out where i've got the 'whatever you do that is illegal is illegal regardless of circumstance' views from - bloody job interview that had this computer test that went on and on and on and on about stealing and hash - and asking my view on whether it's ok or not. Clearly it's a brain washing technique!
Daggers Posted 15 July 2008 Posted 15 July 2008 Don't get me started on Poll Tax... it was just (IMO). I didn't pay poll tax if that's what you mean - but it's been replaced with the Council Tax which isn't any better as I understand. There's lots of un-fairness is the world, and if someone makes a lawful protest - I have no problem with that. But it's when it crosses that boundary and people feel they have a right due to preceived unfairness to break laws when society crashes. I suppose in a way your arguing if more people did it, then it would soon become accpetable, and the law changed - and i expect that may just happen. But end of the day, however you get your material, whether free or not, someone pays for it in the end, whether it be the honest consumer, or the employee made redundant due to falling profits, because a company strives to make profits and will always put that in front anything else. Finally - the terroists thing - thats one of the things that was brought into this area of priating and to some extent file sharing - the terroists may even be offering this file sharing stuff to get your bank details etc, etc, etc - yes alarmist theory. I don't really know if this is the case and don't care, my point is just because you don't like a law doesn't make it ok to break it. (And no i'm not a saint.) But Daggers - I suppose the games companies won't be after the likes of you anyway - they're after the serial downloaders who than exploit it and make profit themselves. RED Protesting unjust laws successfully has a history of breaking laws. Rights of access to the countryside simply wouldn't exist had Ewan MacColl not stormed into protected regions and had his head caved in by the employees of the rich. You can not accept the status quo simply because not to do so is against the law if you perceive that what is there is wrong. Eventually society will agree with you and change the law or it won't and you'll languish in prison. GREEN Either you haven't read or understood the previous arguments which exemplify the absence of pecunary loss suffered by companies and their employees. Research simply doesn't support your point of view. Media-based organisations have all gained from the advent of file-sharing. BLUE Have you ever downloaded a file? There is no payment. There is no exchange of bank details. Alarmist theory? No. It's an absolutely crackpot one.
Daggers Posted 15 July 2008 Posted 15 July 2008 Yeah and i don't know what I'm really trying to achive - mean Daggers isn't going to repent and become a preist or turn himself in at the nearest police station exclaiming 'it was me, I' the downloader the news was on about' So great, what a great wasted afternoon instead of doing work. But i've figured out where i've got the 'whatever you do that is illegal is illegal regardless of circumstance' views from - bloody job interview that had this computer test that went on and on and on and on about stealing and hash - and asking my view on whether it's ok or not. Clearly it's a brain washing technique! Not true - I am always prepare to concede to a superior argument - that is the whole point of debate. And stealing office stationary isn't just not illegal - it's an international hobby!
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 15 July 2008 Posted 15 July 2008 RED Protesting unjust laws successfully has a history of breaking laws. Rights of access to the countryside simply wouldn't exist had Ewan MacColl not stormed into protected regions and had his head caved in by the employees of the rich. You can not accept the status quo simply because not to do so is against the law if you perceive that what is there is wrong. Eventually society will agree with you and change the law or it won't and you'll languish in prison. GREEN Either you haven't read or understood the previous arguments which exemplify the absence of pecunary loss suffered by companies and their employees. Research simply doesn't support your point of view. Media-based organisations have all gained from the advent of file-sharing. BLUE Have you ever downloaded a file? There is no payment. There is no exchange of bank details. Alarmist theory? No. It's an absolutely crackpot one. I wasn't dennying that media-based organisations have not potentially profited from it - but clearly they'd prefer to do it on there own terms. And the reason's they've profited from it may be more down to what they've down - for example hiking up the cost of seeing the better live acts - using cheap re-generated toss and calling it music. I have to agree about the formal protest gets no-where - radical protest gets somewhere, which is a shame. Still doesn't make it legally right - morally maybe, but not being a solicitor I don't know how much that stands up in a court of law?
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 15 July 2008 Posted 15 July 2008 Yeah and i don't know what I'm really trying to achive - mean Daggers isn't going to repent and become a preist or turn himself in at the nearest police station exclaiming 'it was me, I' the downloader the news was on about' So great, what a great wasted afternoon instead of doing work. But i've figured out where i've got the 'whatever you do that is illegal is illegal regardless of circumstance' views from - bloody job interview that had this computer test that went on and on and on and on about stealing and hash - and asking my view on whether it's ok or not. Clearly it's a brain washing technique! Forgot to add - I got the job, and boy did i have a party with that reifer after!
Daggers Posted 15 July 2008 Posted 15 July 2008 I wasn't dennying that media-based organisations have not potentially profited from it - but clearly they'd prefer to do it on there own terms. And the reason's they've profited from it may be more down to what they've down - for example hiking up the cost of seeing the better live acts - using cheap re-generated toss and calling it music. I refer you to my original post linking to actual research data
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 15 July 2008 Posted 15 July 2008 I refer you to my original post linking to actual research data Bah - you can make statistics and research to prove anything! when researched 99% of people knew that!
Phube Posted 15 July 2008 Author Posted 15 July 2008 GTA: Chinatown... coming to DS!!! Another game for Daggers to download!!
hairy Posted 15 July 2008 Posted 15 July 2008 GTA: Chinatown... coming to DS!!! Another game for Daggers to download!! I think that you are really just jealous and you feel a U turn is not an option now you have taken the high ground
Guest Posted 15 July 2008 Posted 15 July 2008 Primal Scream new album............sorry puppy Sorry, could someone please point a newbie in the direction of some music and game filesharing, please? I have suddenly developed an interest.
Fox You Forest Posted 16 July 2008 Posted 16 July 2008 Sorry, could someone please point a newbie in the direction of some music and game filesharing, please? I have suddenly developed an interest. It's best to wait for Daggers, What with him being the kingpin of this operation. I will say once you turn to the dark side there is no going back.
Unabomber Posted 16 July 2008 Posted 16 July 2008 Ahhh but where does that line of thinking stop? Downloading films/music? Stealing from a big, well insured, multinational shop? Stealing a mobile left unattended? Asking a smaller kid to 'lend' you money? Grabbing a purse/handbag from an elderly lady? Mugging someone at knife point? Where do you draw the line??? This serious? I would happily d/l a film but would certainly not mug someone at knifepoint, there are alot of differences.
hairy Posted 16 July 2008 Posted 16 July 2008 Sorry, could someone please point a newbie in the direction of some music and game filesharing, please? I have suddenly developed an interest. You need to d/l utorrent. Then go to Mininova.org Find a file you would like and download it. You could also try the private bay or sign up to a 'tracker' such as ilovetorrents.com or torrentzilla. Or you could just d/l the Primal Scream album here Edit: and dont forget the puppy
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