Absolute *** of our time Pt.MXXVI

[purpleronnie]

Fvck off.

Just because it's Moose posting it, it doesn't become less abhorant.

And this from someone who wants to execute paedophiles, regardless of whether they have committed a crime.

You have lost all credibility.

whoooosh.

 

Maybe sarcasm doesn't work too well on forums.

[Buce]

whoooosh.

Maybe sarcasm doesn't work too well on forums.

No it doesn't, and I've already admitted that I missed it.

That doesn't negate my other point; Moose being a cvnt doesn't excuse the crime, nor the fact that the perpetrators are muslim, and that is what you appear to imply.

[purpleronnie]

No it doesn't, and I've already admitted that I missed it.

That doesn't negate my other point; Moose being a cvnt doesn't excuse the crime, nor the fact that the perpetrators are muslim, and that is what you appear to imply.

That's not what I was implying at all.  The fact they are muslim has no relevance at all.  It's truly disgusting no matter what colour or religion they are.

[Buce]

That's not what I was implying at all. The fact they are muslim has no relevance at all. It's truly disgusting no matter what colour or religion they are.

If it was an isolated case, I would agree. But it is the latest in a long line of cases, where each time the rapists are exclusively muslim, and the victims exclusively white.

There is clearly a problem within the muslim community, and to ignore that fact is just the same politically correct bullshit that allowed thousands of children to be raped in Rotherham.

Edited 27 November 2014 by Buce

[Merging Cultures]

It's disgusting whoever does it.

In my opinion, if the perpetrators are from a foreign country they should be sent back to that country to carry out their sentence.

Their religion isn't really relevant though.

They are a gang of men, who have committed heinous crimes.

[Stadt]

The religion is relevant, whether you like it or not.

[purpleronnie]

The religion is relevant, whether you like it or not.

I hope not, certainly not in the eyes of the judge and jury, maybe the problem has been hidden and allowed to grow is because people often bought up relgion in such cases.

[Alf Bentley]

If it was an isolated case, I would agree. But it is the latest in a long line of cases, where each time the rapists are exclusively muslim, and the victims exclusively white.

There is clearly a problem within the muslim community, and to ignore that fact is just the same politically correct bullshit that allowed thousands of children to be raped in Rotherham.

 

 

This.

 

Of course, there are also cases of white men (and women) abusing children, and of Asian children being abused.

 

But there is clearly a particular problem with certain groups of Muslim men from several different communities (Somalis this time; mainly Pakistanis before). And there are clearly quite a lot of them involved. Not most Muslims. Not most Somalis or Pakistanis....but a clear race/religion-specific element to a terrible crime. There was also a TV programme a couple of months ago exposing widespread child abuse within Pakistan itself (though that may not be relevant to this case, as it involves Somalis).

The particular and disproportionate involvement of Muslim men needs to be recognised, investigated and stopped. I disagree with Moose about most things, but he's right on this one, as is Buce.

[Guest MattP]

I hope not, certainly not in the eyes of the judge and jury, maybe the problem has been hidden and allowed to grow is because people often bought up relgion in such cases.

Of course it's relevant, we are talking about cases where the victims are exclusively white and 99% of the perpetrators are Muslim.

The real problem is how normal this is in large parts of the Somali and Pakistani Muslim community, the amount of cases where uncles and cousins were involved together should frighten everyone.

I honestly thought the 'it doesn't matter what they are attitude had finally gone after Rotherham.

Would be like saying race wasn't a factor in the Stephen Lawrence murder, ridiculous.

[ADK]

I don't think they target the girls because they are white, they target them because they are vulnerable and easy to manipulate. I don't think it's a paedophile issue, these men aren't medically paedophiles, just that some of the victims are under the legal age of consent. It's obvious that culture is a big problem. In their culture, it is obviously acceptable to treat young girls in this way. I don't think it has been acceptable in our culture for 100's of years.

[Merging Cultures]

Of course it's relevant, we are talking about cases where the victims are exclusively white and 99% of the perpetrators are Muslim.

The real problem is how normal this is in large parts of the Somali and Pakistani Muslim community, the amount of cases where uncles and cousins were involved together should frighten everyone.

I honestly thought the 'it doesn't matter what they are attitude had finally gone after Rotherham.

Would be like saying race wasn't a factor in the Stephen Lawrence murder, ridiculous.

If in Rotherham religion hadn't mattered then the case wouldn't have been hidden. But the police/council/idiots didn't want to upset the community. The religion shouldn't and doesn't matter.

I can't imagine the perpetrators did it because they were Muslim. They did it because they are disgusting. There might be a culture of child abuse in their communities, it doesn't mean it is a part of their religion. These are a minority of Muslims and a minority of their community.

I do agree we need to understand why certain immigrants are forming gangs and abusing children. Unless, it can be shown that Imams are telling Muslims it is OK to abuse Children, it comes down something other than religion.

[Buce]

If in Rotherham religion hadn't mattered then the case wouldn't have been hidden. But the police/council/idiots didn't want to upset the community. The religion shouldn't and doesn't matter.

I can't imagine the perpetrators did it because they were Muslim. They did it because they are disgusting. There might be a culture of child abuse in their communities, it doesn't mean it is a part of their religion. These are a minority of Muslims and a minority of their community.

I do agree we need to understand why certain immigrants are forming gangs and abusing children. Unless, it can be shown that Imams are telling Muslims it is OK to abuse Children, it comes down something other than religion.

The previous cases have involved mainly Pakistanis; this case - identical in practically every way - involves Somalis.

I'm no anthrapologist, but it seems to me that these are two very different cultures. As far as I can see, the obvious common denomimator is Islam.

You're a well-travelled man: can you cast any light on a more significant cultural similarity?

[Merging Cultures]

The previous cases have involved mainly Pakistanis; this case - identical in practically every way - involves Somalis.

I'm no anthrapologist, but it seems to me that these are two very different cultures. As far as I can see, the obvious common denomimator is Islam.

You're a well-travelled man: can you cast any light on a more significant cultural similarity?

To be honest i dont know. I am still forming my opinions on this and debates like this are helpful.

One other factor is that they are immigrants, which will tend to be a more tight knit group, which allows people to be more easily manipulated and for crimes to be not reported. In our majority disparate society we belong to it's harder to form gangs to do such despicable acts. So I'd suggest there are some utter w ankers that have infiltrated these groups, I'll admit either through their Mosque but also through their other social networks, and formed these gangs. But it isn't about Islam. Nowhere in Islam would it allow you to do this.

I think for an investigation, the fact they are Muslim is obviously important, to establish where and how these gangs are being formed, I.e. to establish if the Mosque and Imam are involved or if human traffickers are connecting in the Mosque. But in terms of reporting, I could care what they believe. And the way it is reported stigmatises the vast majority of law abiding Muslims. My point being that it shouldn't matter where they are from, their religion or race. No one should believe this is acceptable and everyone should be treated the same way.

Edited 28 November 2014 by Merging Cultures

[Bellend Sebastian]

The bullshit that's been flowing about around the Rotherham case is the suggestion that somehow the children of South Yorkshire were abused on an industrial scale because someone didn't want to be called a racist.  Read the inquiry - it's in the public domain - and see if you can find the bit about concerns over racial sensitivities in the case.  It's quite near the start, as it happens, which is lucky as it makes up a tiny, tiny part of the report, which is a long old document, and a bit dry if I'm honest.  The main focus is on the dysfunction of overstretched public services - poorly resourced, inadequately staffed, confused and inconsistent priorities etc etc etc but for some strange reason the media have conveniently ignored all of that and found a loony left, political correctness gone mad angle and it's accepted without question.

 

Take a step back and look at it and you realise how absurd a premise it all is.  Now, I've no desire to be labelled a racist any more than the next man, but if faced with the serial, dreadful sexual abuse of youngsters on a massive scale, but I might get accused of being a racist by saying who I thought was responsible and trying to get something done about it, well I'd take that chance.  I find it hard to believe that people would put themselves in a position where they'd be reflecting at the end of the day by thinking, well, a load of kids got abused, but at least I didn't upset any Pakistanis.  It's a media construct, and to my mind, it's 95% bollocks.

 

BUT

 

What I'm absolutely NOT saying is that there aren't clearly major problems with sections of these ethnic minority communities and their behaviour - there have been plenty of convictions, that's for sure.  I doubt very much that these groups have any greater urge to shag children than any other; I'd have thought that apparent prevalence is more to do with them coming from very patriarchal backgrounds where (POSSIBLE RACIAL STEREOTYPE ALERT) blokes lord it over everybody else and can do pretty much as they please - for other examples see the Catholic Church, Jersey children's homes, families of all colours with a domineering nutcase as head of household that cannot be questioned (your Fred Wests and the like).  Where you get these power imbalances is where you get your problems.

 

This is made worse in all of these scenarios by the poor sods being preyed on generally being the lowest of the low.  It's not captains of industry or the leader of the council's kids getting f*****, it's the kids from broken homes, the poor, the mentally ill, those with drug and other addiction problems - those that society generally don't give a toss about - well, until they're being interfered with by some 'other' that we like even less, it seems.

 

Ever since we all started getting excited about paedophiles in the early 2000s, I've felt that it was far more about creating a new public enemy for us all to shake our fists at and get enraged about than protecting children from abuse.  Now that we've found that folk from other ethnic groups and religions do the same stuff, we can enjoy a fantastic new level of hysteria and anger, which does next to nothing to help those on the wrong end of it

 

 

 

 

Edited 28 November 2014 by Bellend Sebastian

[Rincewind]

Wish I had said all that.

[Buce]

Wish I had said all that.

You will, Ken, you will..

[Rincewind]

I'm trying not to get involved in debates on here now. I've lasted about a week so far without being called a loony.

[Merging Cultures]

I'm trying not to get involved in debates on here now. I've lasted about a week so far without being called a loony.

Loony.

[MooseBreath]

I expect the part about racial sensitivity at Rotherham struck a chord with the public because it had become such a blindingly obvious error in much of societies thinking, and here at last was an opportunity to 'out' it without question; the severity of the case meaning there was no chance that it could become yet another thing swept under the carpet.

Despite some people's extraordinarily strange continued best efforts, there could no longer be any doubt that simply throwing around accusations of racism was a terrible way of 'dealing' with problems, in fact it was clearly doing severe harm.

This was an important step forward, and that's why it got a lot of attention. The number of words devoted to it in the inquiry report is irrelevant, what matters is that it was in there; that it was officially announced as a factor in those horrific crimes, and doubtless has been a factor in what appears to be a near epidemic of similar situations across the country.

As for the Muslim aspect, as Buce says it seems like the only common denominator. We don't see the same behaviour among other tight nit immigrant groups. I don't expect that Islam itself openly promotes gang raping kids, but it's abundantly clear that this specific type of crime is almost exclusively committed by Muslims, and in my opinion it would be immoral and reckless not to face up to that fact and to try to understand the reason for it.

[Guest MattP]

 

The bullshit that's been flowing about around the Rotherham case is the suggestion that somehow the children of South Yorkshire were abused on an industrial scale because someone didn't want to be called a racist.  Read the inquiry - it's in the public domain - and see if you can find the bit about concerns over racial sensitivities in the case.  It's quite near the start, as it happens, which is lucky as it makes up a tiny, tiny part of the report, which is a long old document, and a bit dry if I'm honest.  The main focus is on the dysfunction of overstretched public services - poorly resourced, inadequately staffed, confused and inconsistent priorities etc etc etc but for some strange reason the media have conveniently ignored all of that and found a loony left, political correctness gone mad angle and it's accepted without question.

 

Let's not pretend political correctness didn't play some part in this, there are many notes and facts about the cases like below on people who tried to report the problem....the council even sent people on 'diversity courses' who used the term Asian men to refer to the groomers.

 

Of course the question I would ask in reference to the fact public services are poorly resourced, inadequately staffed, confused and have inconsistent priorities is that why did this only seem to happen in towns where there was a significent Muslim population? It can't be a total coincedence can it?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-29012571

 

Edited 28 November 2014 by MattP

[Dr The Singh]

Let's not pretend political correctness didn't play some part in this, there are many notes and facts about the cases like below on people who tried to report the problem....the council even sent people on 'diversity courses' who used the term Asian men to refer to the groomers.

 

Of course the question I would ask in reference to the fact public services are poorly resourced, inadequately staffed, confused and have inconsistent priorities is that why did this only seem to happen in towns where there was a significent Muslim population? It can't be a total coincedence can it?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-29012571

 

That fact that little boys are being sold, abused etc in many muslim nations openly, top to bottom in those society, must have an impact!!!

[Merging Cultures]

Let's not pretend political correctness didn't play some part in this, there are many notes and facts about the cases like below on people who tried to report the problem....the council even sent people on 'diversity courses' who used the term Asian men to refer to the groomers.

Of course the question I would ask in reference to the fact public services are poorly resourced, inadequately staffed, confused and have inconsistent priorities is that why did this only seem to happen in towns where there was a significent Muslim population? It can't be a total coincedence can it?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-29012571

Not to be too picky, but where does it say Muslim in that picture? Perhaps it is just implied? Edited 28 November 2014 by Merging Cultures

[Webbo]

Not to be too picky, but where does it say Muslim in that picture? Perhaps it is just implied?

The point is when someone reported the fact that abuse was taking place by asian men, instead of investigating it the complainant was sent on a diversity course. The implication being that the complainant must be racist because they raised the issue.

Edited 28 November 2014 by Webbo

[Merging Cultures]

The point is when someone reported the fact that abuse was taking place by asian men, instead of investigating it the complainant was sent on a diversity course.

Which is ridiculous.

But is it implied they are Muslim?

[Webbo]

Which is ridiculous.

But is it implied they are Muslim?

It's not implied in that bit, but the fact that several groups of muslim men have been convicted of this crime is sort of beyond implying.