Maradona, Terry Butcher and a football match

[Finnegan]

especially as if any of the other home nations had qualified I would have supported them (except against us of course).

See that's the attitude I always hate the most when this discussion comes up. Like we owe you our support because you're patronizing enough to think it's oh so quaint and "such a great British achievement" if we qualify for anything. Oddly enough it's just "oh yeah, Wales are shit" when we don't.

Without wanting to sound like a petulant pre-teen, we don't want your fucking support.

[Webbo]

See that's the attitude I always hate the most when this discussion comes up. Like we owe you our support because you're patronizing enough to think it's oh so quaint and "such a great British achievement" if we qualify for anything. Oddly enough it's just "oh yeah, Wales are shit" when we don't.

Without wanting to sound like a petulant pre-teen, we don't want your fucking support.

I don't care whether you want it or not, just don't take such pleasure when we lose.

[Finnegan]

I don't care whether you want it or not, just don't take such pleasure when we lose.

Why?

You've never laughed at Coventry losing? You didn't smile when Derby came straight back down with record-breakingly low points? You're not amused by smug, 'big club', Forest struggling to hold onto our position in the Championship?

[purpleronnie]

Couple of points:

1. The reverence of Maradona by Scottish people would be fine if it was for reasons beyond the fact he scored a goal with his hand against the English. The fact the Scots are forced into deriving pleasure from the antics of an Argentinian and the subsequent failings of the English say a lot about how miserable it must be to support the Socttish national team.

2. Terry Butcher needs to move on. Overshadowing the talents of a footballing genius by continually dragging up a freak goal is a massive shame. Butcher was a good player but Maradona had more talent in his little finger. A point made on talkSport this morning was how Maradona was probably one of the most fouled players in football at a time when tackles were hard. Really hard. Can anyone really say they wouldn't be tempted to flirt with the laws after putting up with that? In any case Maradona was a wonderful player and it was great to see him yesterday doing what he did best as a player - making defenders like Butcher look silly.

BBC Sport

Just a silly as us harping on about the 1966 world cup and the 5-1 win against germany.

I think its funny, its not that they go on about it all the time but playing Argentina brings it up.

Just a bit of fun.

[Webbo]

Why?

You've never laughed at Coventry losing? You didn't smile when Derby came straight back down with record-breakingly low points? You're not amused by smug, 'big club', Forest struggling to hold onto our position in the Championship?

I'll admit to a dislike of Cov but tbh Forest and Derby don't really bother me. I get far more pleasure out of us winning than Cov losing.

[Finnegan]

Just a silly as us harping on about the 1966 world cup and the 5-1 win against germany.

I think its funny, its not that they go on about it all the time but playing Argentina brings it up.

Just a bit of fun.

I'll admit to a dislike of Cov but tbh Forest and Derby don't really bother me. I get far more pleasure out of us winning than Cov losing.

Yeah sure. And we get far greater pleasure out of winning games than seeing England lose, unfortunately this doesn't happen all too often. We celebrate the minor victories.

[Bert]

I thought Terry Butcher was bigger than this.

What's done is done. I'm sure all of us have cheated at something in our lifetime.

Even if Maradona hadn't have scored "that goal" there's no saying we would've gone on to win that game, let alone the world cup.

[Webbo]

I thought Terry Butcher was bigger than this.

What's done is done. I'm sure all of us have cheated at something in our lifetime.

Even if Maradona hadn't have scored "that goal" there's no saying we would've gone on to win that game, let alone the world cup.

Maradonna cheated him out of a possible world cup winners medal, you can understand if he's a little bit miffed.

[Darkzzz_]

As most of you probably already know, I am a massive Maradona fan.

I have always had the shit like, "How can you like him, he cheated us out in 86"

For me, I don't care, I want England to do well of course, But for me what it all boils down to is my love of football and individual football talent.

What Pele could do with a football, Maradona could do with a orange.

In my opinion he was the greatest player ever and someone raised a very good point before me, Did you read how many times he was kicked and fouled in his career because that was the only way he could be stopped.

People should read his book, It is a excellent read.

Always a genius in my eyes.

[CosbehFox]

Maradonna cheated him out of a possible world cup winners medal, you can understand if he's a little bit miffed.

Agreed. Maradona cheats, Butcher upholds integrity.

People should read his book, It is a excellent read.

I found it difficult because the translation wasn't brill. Didn't flow.

[Alexikokopops]

See that's the attitude I always hate the most when this discussion comes up. Like we owe you our support because you're patronizing enough to think it's oh so quaint and "such a great British achievement" if we qualify for anything. Oddly enough it's just "oh yeah, Wales are shit" when we don't.

Without wanting to sound like a petulant pre-teen, we don't want your fucking support.

That's because no one cares enough about Wales to have a rivalry with them. At least there's something with the Scots

[Daggers]

Erm, surely all players cheat?

Claiming for free kicks or throw-ins that weren't theirs, shoving players in the back or pulling their shirts - not to mention caving their skulls in. Goalies claiming the ball never went out, players controlling it with upper limbs...or have I missed something here?

[breadandcheese]

As most of you probably already know, I am a massive Maradona fan.

I have always had the shit like, "How can you like him, he cheated us out in 86"

For me, I don't care, I want England to do well of course, But for me what it all boils down to is my love of football and individual football talent.

What Pele could do with a football, Maradona could do with a orange.

In my opinion he was the greatest player ever and someone raised a very good point before me, Did you read how many times he was kicked and fouled in his career because that was the only way he could be stopped.

People should read his book, It is a excellent read.

Always a genius in my eyes.

Maradona knew his limitations so had to cheat. Pele never had to resort to cheating.

[Daggers]

Maradona knew his limitations so had to cheat. Pele never had to resort to cheating.

Pele was a player in a team - Maradona was the team.

</argument>

[Ric Flair]

As most of you probably already know, I am a massive Maradona fan.

I have always had the shit like, "How can you like him, he cheated us out in 86"

For me, I don't care, I want England to do well of course, But for me what it all boils down to is my love of football and individual football talent.

What Pele could do with a football, Maradona could do with a orange.

In my opinion he was the greatest player ever and someone raised a very good point before me, Did you read how many times he was kicked and fouled in his career because that was the only way he could be stopped.

People should read his book, It is a excellent read.

Always a genius in my eyes.

Couldn't agree more. Maradona is a loveable rogue. His book is a very good read and the man is a gifted miracle with a football or as you say, an orange.

[breadandcheese]

Pele was a player in a team - Maradona was the team.

</argument>

It's become a bit of a myth that he won the world cup single-handedly. They had Burruchaga, Valdano and Ruggeri, as well as a number of other players, who if playing today would be at top European clubs, getting more media attention and exposure than they got back in 1986.

I'm not saying Maradona was not a great player as he was and indeed was one of the most talented players to have ever played the game, but he had shortcomings and had to resort to cheating.

[Daggers]

I'm not saying Maradona was not a great player as he was and indeed was one of the most talented players to have ever played the game, but he had shortcomings and had to resort to cheating.

Pele cheated.

You see that figure for goals scored next to his name in the record books? It's a lie. He fabricated the number of goals scored in Brazil

I can't tell you who to believe was the best out of the two but I can say that neither of them is an angel...and that I don't understand why people get so hung up on this one moment.

[Alexikokopops]

It's become a bit of a myth that he won the world cup single-handedly. They had Burruchaga, Valdano and Ruggeri, as well as a number of other players, who if playing today would be at top European clubs, getting more media attention and exposure than they got back in 1986.

I'm not saying Maradona was not a great player as he was and indeed was one of the most talented players to have ever played the game, but he had shortcomings and had to resort to cheating.

I'm pretty sure I heard or read somewhere recently that Pele admitted to diving. Or someone in his team said he advocated it. Or something. This post is pretty useless really, I just want to throw something into the mix

[CosbehFox]

Erm, surely all players cheat?

Claiming for free kicks or throw-ins that weren't theirs, shoving players in the back or pulling their shirts - not to mention caving their skulls in. Goalies claiming the ball never went out, players controlling it with upper limbs...or have I missed something here?

I don't debate that. It was blatant cheating from Maradona and what enraged Butcher more at the time was in an one-on-one conversation, he didn't even admit it.

When you have a player take your legs from behind in goal, you wouldn't shake his hand after the game. I know the majority of people I know wouldn't.

[James.]

When you have a player take your legs from behind in goal, you wouldn't shake his hand after the game. I know the majority of people I know wouldn't.

After the game... what about 22 years later?

Myabe if we all stopped looking to the past so much (i.e. 1966 and whatever else we still glorify/horrify ourselves with) we'd have moved on as a nation and wouldn't have a football team that is only now starting to show glimpses of its potential under the leadership of an Italian... Just a thought.

[CosbehFox]

After the game... what about 22 years later?

Well depending on the importance of the situation, yes 22 years later. World Cup is the pinnacle of football and if someone taken that away from you with an act of chearing. Just like Haaland will with Keane and various other dirty dilberate tackles, they will never forgot.

This has nothing to concern with living the past. Butcher is upholding his own integrity. It's an issue between two blokes, not the national team as a whole. If you want to go on about teams living in the past, then sadly near enough ever international teams does. Holland crave for total football, Argentinian press are always looking for the next 'Maradona', the Irish want the new Jack Charlton, Italy decided to get Lippi back as manager.

Maradona has a long catalogue of stuffing up everyone else but himself. Great footballer, willy puller of a bloke.

[Daggers]

This has nothing to concern with living the past. Butcher is upholding integrity.

Butcher was pissed as a twat the night before the game - half the reason no one could catch Maradona for the other goal was that they were all hungover as ****.

[Darkzzz_]

Maradona knew his limitations so had to cheat. Pele never had to resort to cheating.

Pele has been cheating his wife for years, Viagra is cheating.

Couldn't agree more. Maradona is a loveable rogue. His book is a very good read and the man is a gifted miracle with a football or as you say, an orange.

Talk's sense, I like Ric Flair!!

willy puller of a bloke.

Fair enough, I respect your comment. As I do with everyone that posts.

Just out of interest did you know him on a personal level?

[breadandcheese]

Pele has been cheating his wife for years, Viagra is cheating.

He was honest enough to admit it to the world.

[CosbehFox]

No but he's left enough people high and dry in 1994 Argentina WC team for me to make that opinion and Napoli were suffering the affects of his ways for many years after despite the glory he bought them. Also got a kid who hardly appreciate his genius.