Maradona, Terry Butcher and a football match

[James.]

Couple of points:

1. The reverence of Maradona by Scottish people would be fine if it was for reasons beyond the fact he scored a goal with his hand against the English. The fact the Scots are forced into deriving pleasure from the antics of an Argentinian and the subsequent failings of the English say a lot about how miserable it must be to support the Socttish national team.

2. Terry Butcher needs to move on. Overshadowing the talents of a footballing genius by continually dragging up a freak goal is a massive shame. Butcher was a good player but Maradona had more talent in his little finger. A point made on talkSport this morning was how Maradona was probably one of the most fouled players in football at a time when tackles were hard. Really hard. Can anyone really say they wouldn't be tempted to flirt with the laws after putting up with that? In any case Maradona was a wonderful player and it was great to see him yesterday doing what he did best as a player - making defenders like Butcher look silly.

BBC Sport

[Raj]

Couple of points:

1. The reverence of Maradona by Scottish people would be fine if it was for reasons beyond the fact he scored a goal with his hand against the English. The fact the Scots are forced into deriving pleasure from the antics of an Argentinian and the subsequent failings of the English say a lot about how miserable it must be to support the Socttish national team.

2. Terry Butcher needs to move on. Overshadowing the talents of a footballing genius by continually dragging up a freak goal is a massive shame. Butcher was a good player but Maradona had more talent in his little finger. A point made on talkSport this morning was how Maradona was probably one of the most fouled players in football at a time when tackles were hard. Really hard. Can anyone really say they wouldn't be tempted to flirt with the laws after putting up with that? In any case Maradona was a wonderful player and it was great to see him yesterday doing what he did best as a player - making defenders like Butcher look silly.

BBC Sport

THAT is one of the most sensible things posted on here for days!!

[Corky]

Couple of points:

1. The reverence of Maradona by Scottish people would be fine if it was for reasons beyond the fact he scored a goal with his hand against the English. The fact the Scots are forced into deriving pleasure from the antics of an Argentinian and the subsequent failings of the English say a lot about how miserable it must be to support the Socttish national team.

2. Terry Butcher needs to move on. Overshadowing the talents of a footballing genius by continually dragging up a freak goal is a massive shame. Butcher was a good player but Maradona had more talent in his little finger. A point made on talkSport this morning was how Maradona was probably one of the most fouled players in football at a time when tackles were hard. Really hard. Can anyone really say they wouldn't be tempted to flirt with the laws after putting up with that? In any case Maradona was a wonderful player and it was great to see him yesterday doing what he did best as a player - making defenders like Butcher look silly.

BBC Sport

I agree with both points. It is very sad to see the Scots arse-lick him, for the fact he cheated against England. They really need to stop paying so much attention to us and concentrate on their own team.

Terry Butcher does need to move on as well. It's 22 years ago. Just a quick hand-shake, doesn't even need to look at Maradona, just a brief hand-shake and move on with his life.

[Ric Flair]

I love Maradona full stop (.)

[Alexikokopops]

I love Maradona full stop (.)

I echo these sentiments.

As an aside did anyone see Tevez's mum pay him a visit at training?

[Corky]

In 2011 there will be a massive party in Scotland to celebrate the 25th anniversary of their greatest international achievement- England being knocked out of a World Cup by a cheat

[dandannieldanok]

Couple of points:

1. The reverence of Maradona by Scottish people would be fine if it was for reasons beyond the fact he scored a goal with his hand against the English. The fact the Scots are forced into deriving pleasure from the antics of an Argentinian and the subsequent failings of the English say a lot about how miserable it must be to support the Socttish national team.

2. Terry Butcher needs to move on. Overshadowing the talents of a footballing genius by continually dragging up a freak goal is a massive shame. Butcher was a good player but Maradona had more talent in his little finger. A point made on talkSport this morning was how Maradona was probably one of the most fouled players in football at a time when tackles were hard. Really hard. Can anyone really say they wouldn't be tempted to flirt with the laws after putting up with that? In any case Maradona was a wonderful player and it was great to see him yesterday doing what he did best as a player - making defenders like Butcher look silly.

BBC Sport

Agree with both points, especially the first. It's pathetic that they'd worship a man simply because he knocked us out of a world cup.

As an aside did anyone see Tevez's mum pay him a visit at training?

[Finnegan]

The fact the Scots are forced into deriving pleasure from the antics of an Argentinian and the subsequent failings of the English say a lot about how miserable it must be to support the Socttish national team.

That's nothing. We're planning a museum in Cardiff.

[Corky]

That's nothing. We're planning a museum in Cardiff.

I don't actually mind the Welsh supporters. Or the Northern Irish fans.

The Scots are hilarious though. I know they are passionate, but quite a lot of it is spent hating England.

[Daggers]

Butcher's whining would carry a bit more weight had he not fessed up to going out on the lash with the squad the night before the game.

[CosbehFox]

You lot are talking too much commonsense.

I hope Butcher swings for him in the dug-out - much better than watching England or Scotland's friendly this evening.

[Ric Flair]

I echo these sentiments.

As an aside did anyone see Tevez's mum pay him a visit at training?

Wahahahahahahaaaaa

[Simi]

So Butcher will be in Scotland dugout tonight?

[Finnegan]

I don't actually mind the Welsh supporters. Or the Northern Irish fans.

The Scots are hilarious though. I know they are passionate, but quite a lot of it is spent hating England.

Hmm, it's two things really. I think a large part of that is just that the Scots take their football more seriously than we do, we love nothing more than to beat England - at rugby! There's also the fact that we, as a nation, are generally far more cheerful and laid back than the Scottish, though, haha. Protest has never really been all that big in Wales, if we've got our rugby and we've got our pubs then that's 'tidy, mun.'

I dislike the Northern Irish, though. They can fuck off bringing their bigotry to our city, our stadium. We got far, far more trouble from them than we did the English when they came to the Millenium Stadium, tossers.

Best fun I've had at a game in years though was singing back and forth between the Scots and the Welsh fans, "we hate England more than you!" It's just banter, really.

[Ric Flair]

Hmm, it's two things really. I think a large part of that is just that the Scots take their football more seriously than we do, we love nothing more than to beat England - at rugby! There's also the fact that we, as a nation, are generally far more cheerful and laid back than the Scottish, though, haha. Protest has never really been all that big in Wales, if we've got our rugby and we've got our pubs then that's 'tidy, mun.'

I dislike the Northern Irish, though. They can fuck off bringing their bigotry to our city, our stadium. We got far, far more trouble from them than we did the English when they came to the Millenium Stadium, tossers.

Best fun I've had at a game in years though was singing back and forth between the Scots and the Welsh fans, "we hate England more than you!" It's just banter, really.

Does the hatred come from jealousy or the fact that our nation is very arrogant about supposedly being 'better' at sport?? Or as usual does it have nothing to do with Sport?

[lildave3]

I echo these sentiments.

As an aside did anyone see Tevez's mum pay him a visit at training?

:laugh:!

[Finnegan]

Does the hatred come from jealousy or the fact that our nation is very arrogant about supposedly being 'better' at sport?? Or as usual does it have nothing to do with Sport?

Er, a few things really.

1. People like rivalries in sport, why do we ACTUALLY "hate" Forest or Derby? They're just... nearby. You can't really knock the Scots dislike for England in the football and then get kicks out of Leicester stuffing Coventry at the Ricoh without being a bit of a hypocrite.

2. I wouldn't say it's jealousy, we're pretty used to the fact we're crap at football. Everybody likes being an underdog and snapping at the heels of those above you, though, I guess.

3. We really, really don't enjoy having to have Wayne Rooney, David Beckham and everyone shoved in our faces everywhere we turn because we're unfortunate enough to live on the same island as you. It does make things slightly sweeter to see you crumple after we've all been bored to death with the hype for so long. It's a little less chip-on-the-shoulder and more a cynical, eye rolling "we told you so."

4. There's a political element, sure, you can't really overlook that. You annexed us, conquered Scotland and enforced years of oppression on the Irish. It's a common misconception that the Northern Irish love the English, give yourself a wander around Belfast with a thick London accent and I'm sure you'll be on the receiving end of some stick. You can call it childish to be affected by that in the modern age and to some extent I'll probably agree with you, but then I don't really see it as hatred and more just a rivalry in most cases.

[Corky]

Er, a few things really.

1. People like rivalries in sport, why do we ACTUALLY "hate" Forest or Derby? They're just... nearby. You can't really knock the Scots dislike for England in the football and then get kicks out of Leicester stuffing Coventry at the Ricoh without being a bit of a hypocrite.

2. I wouldn't say it's jealousy, we're pretty used to the fact we're crap at football. Everybody likes being an underdog and snapping at the heels of those above you, though, I guess.

3. We really, really don't enjoy having to have Wayne Rooney, David Beckham and everyone shoved in our faces everywhere we turn because we're unfortunate enough to live on the same island as you. It does make things slightly sweeter to see you crumple after we've all been bored to death with the hype for so long. It's a little less chip-on-the-shoulder and more a cynical, eye rolling "we told you so."

4. There's a political element, sure, you can't really overlook that. You annexed us, conquered Scotland and enforced years of oppression on the Irish. It's a common misconception that the Northern Irish love the English, give yourself a wander around Belfast with a thick London accent and I'm sure you'll be on the receiving end of some stick. You can call it childish to be affected by that in the modern age and to some extent I'll probably agree with you, but then I don't really see it as hatred and more just a rivalry in most cases.

I know what you mean with that. Also, I'm sure our supporters get on your nerves as well. One bad game, every player is crap, we are crap. Couple of good wins, we'll win the next competition etc.

It makes me cringe sometimes.

[Ric Flair]

Er, a few things really.

1. People like rivalries in sport, why do we ACTUALLY "hate" Forest or Derby? They're just... nearby. You can't really knock the Scots dislike for England in the football and then get kicks out of Leicester stuffing Coventry at the Ricoh without being a bit of a hypocrite.

2. I wouldn't say it's jealousy, we're pretty used to the fact we're crap at football. Everybody likes being an underdog and snapping at the heels of those above you, though, I guess.

3. We really, really don't enjoy having to have Wayne Rooney, David Beckham and everyone shoved in our faces everywhere we turn because we're unfortunate enough to live on the same island as you. It does make things slightly sweeter to see you crumple after we've all been bored to death with the hype for so long. It's a little less chip-on-the-shoulder and more a cynical, eye rolling "we told you so."

4. There's a political element, sure, you can't really overlook that. You annexed us, conquered Scotland and enforced years of oppression on the Irish. It's a common misconception that the Northern Irish love the English, give yourself a wander around Belfast with a thick London accent and I'm sure you'll be on the receiving end of some stick. You can call it childish to be affected by that in the modern age and to some extent I'll probably agree with you, but then I don't really see it as hatred and more just a rivalry in most cases.

Oh absolutely, rivalries are great. It's just our country don't seem to share the same feelings about the Scottish and Welsh etc, well certainly not for me anyway. I actually like the home nations to do well and although i'd want England to beat them when they play each other, it doesn't fill me with a desperation to succeed against them. I think this might also be because i'm not really in to Rugby that much and in football, we sadly don't get to play the home nations as much as we should do. So there's no fuel to the fire building up between future fixtures.

[Finnegan]

I know what you mean with that. Also, I'm sure our supporters get on your nerves as well. One bad game, every player is crap, we are crap. Couple of good wins, we'll win the next competition etc.

It makes me cringe sometimes.

Exactly. Particularly when we're going through years and years and years of being crap. England's like this glamour model complaining to it's balding, ugly best friend that she's got a couple of split ends like it's the biggest tragedy in the world.

Oh absolutely, rivalries are great. It's just our country don't seem to share the same feelings about the Scottish and Welsh etc, well certainly not for me anyway. I actually like the home nations to do well and although i'd want England to beat them when they play each other, it doesn't fill me with a desperation to succeed against them. I think this might also be because i'm not really in to Rugby that much and in football, we sadly don't get to play the home nations as much as we should do. So there's no fuel to the fire building up between future fixtures.

Put two parts in bold because you partly answered your own question. Plus it doesn't help that we're shit, I mean it's hard to really get behind hating a team that's so beneath you. I mean we don't really give a toss about Notts County or Northampton or Lincoln, even though they're just as much "local" teams as any other. And even if those teams really hated City, we'd still not really be all that bothered about it, frankly.

But like I said, there are other factors and some of them are political or historical and I don't think it's ONLY in sport in which the Welsh dislike the English but the English generally regard the Welsh with a sort of mocking, passive disdain as opposed to a rivalry or even "hate."

[Alexikokopops]

But like I said, there are other factors and some of them are political or historical and I don't think it's ONLY in sport in which the Welsh dislike the English but the English generally regard the Welsh with a sort of mocking, passive disdain as opposed to a rivalry or even "hate."

Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel about you

[Finnegan]

Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel about you

We'll see who's laughing when Y Mab Darogan rises again and Lincoln / London's first on the list to be reclaimed.

[DB11]

I echo these sentiments.

As an aside did anyone see Tevez's mum pay him a visit at training?

They're ugly bastards

[Finnegan]

They're ugly bastards

Racialist.

[Webbo]

I was in Florida when England got knocked out of the last World Cup. I was sitting in pizza hut that night wearing my England shirt because I'd been to see the game in a bar and there were a Northern Irish man talking to a Scots man (making sure I could hear) about how delighted they were that we'd been knocked out.On top of the disappointment of the day that was the last thing I wanted to hear.

I could have pointed out that they'd been knocked out 6 months earlier but what's the point? I think it's really sad when your greatest pleasure is the failure of others, especially as if any of the other home nations had qualified I would have supported them (except against us of course).