casual racism

[Dr The Singh]

As always the mood was one of outright condemnation until people's eyes were opened to blacks being racist against whites. Then the mood gets all reasonable and condemns OTT reaction until the next opportunity to conveniently highlight a white man's racism. Honestly you could drown in the hypocrisy sometimes.

Thrac, I admire the energy your putting into highlighting the issue's of racism, but I would have alot more respect for you if you would highlight racism as a whole, rather then racism against white's. There's ignorance in all societies, some cultures are based around ignorant ideologies, all your doing is segragating the issue on colour, which some my say is ignorant cus we all know racism is a universal issue. Rather then divide and isolate, why not unite!!

[Dr The Singh]

I strongly believe in the man who said this...

'Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.

Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote: 'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.'

'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'

We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!'

'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'

'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'

'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.'

'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'

If this man wishes to replace Gordon anytime soon I wil gladly pay his airfare.

WHat has this got to do with a black man being racially abused!!

[lou]

ASDA have an offer on Shredded Wheat!

Just thought Id continue the vein of wildly off-topic posting

[Samilktray]

Casual Culture.

This is the real problem in society, how can 1 group of people dress so bad?

[Guest]

ASDA have an offer on Shredded Wheat!

Just thought Id continue the vein of wildly off-topic posting

Like it lou, think you ought to start up a bargains thread with only offers/deals etc. listed

[Guest Basildon Fox]

ASDA have an offer on Shredded Wheat!

Just thought Id continue the vein of wildly off-topic posting

But does the offer extend to coco pops and if not is that not just cerialist? Absolutely disgusting if true. This country is heading back to the 80's!!

[MPH]

My grandfather didn't fight and members of my family didn't die for the Marxist shit and anti-white agenda that pervades this country today.

oh for goodness sake give it a rest you boring boring person. nearly all of us lost relatives in the war, dont go pulling that card you just make yourself look more rediculous....

alot of muslim people in Asia (india specifically) lost their MUSLIM relatives who fought in the british army for ' our sake'

[MPH]

ASDA have an offer on Shredded Wheat!

Just thought Id continue the vein of wildly off-topic posting

i dont like Asda. their value range are green and white... are they trying to say whites are cheap?

[James.]

oh for goodness sake give it a rest you boring boring person. nearly all of us lost relatives in the war, dont go pulling that card you just make yourself look more rediculous....

alot of muslim people in Asia (india specifically) lost their MUSLIM relatives who fought in the british army for ' our sake'

Don't rise to it MPH. You can see from Thracian's first posts that he was in this thread purely to spout his usual nonsense to try and incite an argument. He was saying stuff, no one was replying, so he just carried on waiting for the bite. It's boring. That's the point I tried to make earlier. Best to leave him and his issues alone with each other, he'll never change.

[Nick]

Ok so as this is a casual racism thread I'll tell a little story -see what you all think.....

After the footy the other Saturday, I went up to stay with a mate in the north of the county. On Sunday afternoon we went to the local pub. Now I've been drinking in there for 15 years on and off, at weekends, with a bunch of people and know the landlord of the pub well, and have been to Leicester matches with him. It's a village pub in the sticks mainly in a wealthy and farm community type area. My mate lives there with his partner and has been drinking and living there with his partner for around 5 years they know just about everyone that drinks in there.

So Sunday afternoon comes and the pub is pretty empty, around 10-12 locals and me, my mate and his girlfriend. Some fella is telling jokes to the whole pub and entertaining people thoroughly - It began with harmless innuendo and crap plays on words, then digressed into The English Irish and Scottish routine - which to be fair still would have been told with all three nationalities present and I didn't deem it to be massively harmful although wasn't overly impressed.

He then announced "You all like racist jokes - don't you?" Now I was getting up and walking outside to smoke a roll-up and when faced with the question, my initial and gut reaction was voiced, "No" I said firmly.

"Who said that?" the fella at the bar asked..... My mate of 19 years said "his name is Nick, - Just ignore him" I carried on walking out the door and had my fag outside, I heard whilst smoking the laughter at the jokes he told.

When I re-entered the pub it went silent. (Yes, I'm the bad guy here for being 'all difficult' about not wanting to join in in spreading institutionalised racism.)

I held my tongue and finished my pint and left with my friends (I admit not without looking at the guy like if he said any more, I may do something about it he might not be fond of.)

On the way out a bunch of people at the door mainly in there 50's said "OOh some great jokes there eh, mate? You can't beat a laugh in a pub - it's what Englishness and a pub is all about....."

"What do you mean, 'Pffft'..." he said, noticing my response.... "I kept walking only out of respect for the fact that my mates lived there and everybody has known everybody for a long time and had to continue living there after my visit."

Later on that night I asked him if he understood my reaction and explained to him that I was slightly aggrieved that he told the guy to ignore me and carry on with his racist entertainment. He didn't understand. He didn't get it - he disagreed with me very defensively stating he knew the people there and they weren't racist.

I tried telling him what institutionalised racism was, I tried to say that just because everybody there was white - that it still caused harm. I said I didn't want to sit in an environment where people feel safe telling racist jokes. I asked him if he would have tolerated religious jokes if his girlfriend or he were deeply religious - I asked him if a joke offended an individual, a friend, or his family if he would have tolerated it..... but he firmly said that he thought the events were harmless and that we "should not discuss it or we might fall out"

On Monday evening I realised I was still really angry about this. I decided to telephone him and discuss it. After the pleasantries were done I outlined my position and how upset I was, I told him that he may not understand my position entirely but having been my mate for 19 years he should respect it. I asked him how he would feel if I spent my time taking the piss behind his back telling everybody he was a certain way or a certain type of person using stereotypes and then come visit and be his best mate. He said that he wouldn't like it. I asked him how I could then go out with my friends the following day (who he knows are all black) having sat in a village pub the weekend before laughing and joining in with racist jokes. I told him I would be a bastard for doing either and that I wouldn't want to look people in the eye having done so.

So he took my view on board but still thinks I over-reacted and am over-sensitive.

The following weekend I spent the time with 5 of my friends, who, I have travelled to every Euro and World Cup with since France 98. I sat with their families, drank wine and beer laughed all night, talked about politics, prejudice, shared stories of historical perceptions, examined the habits of other cultures, talked about genetics, why certain races and their environment and history made them excel at certain disciplines of sport, we talked about Israel and Palestine and all readily acknowledged our ignorance regarding the situation there and vowed to learn more, we talked about hot women, and of football teams which play in a style...... I had a normal night with my friends, the sort of night I'm used to. It's not better than the nights I share drinking in the village pub with my mates, nor is it worse - I, however got to sit, look my friends in the eye, knowing my conscience was clear, Knowing that when I thanked them for the food and shook their hands that I had been true to myself and true to them.

N.

[acooling08]

I strongly believe in the man who said this...

'Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.

Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote: 'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.'

'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'

We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!'

'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'

'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'

'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.'

'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'

If this man wishes to replace Gordon anytime soon I wil gladly pay his airfare.

This man in my god!

[Dr The Singh]

This man in my god!

Ooooh really, that sounds rather rude, but whatever tickles your fancy!!

[Dr The Singh]

Ok so as this is a casual racism thread I'll tell a little story -see what you all think.....

After the footy the other Saturday, I went up to stay with a mate in the north of the county. On Sunday afternoon we went to the local pub. Now I've been drinking in there for 15 years on and off, at weekends, with a bunch of people and know the landlord of the pub well, and have been to Leicester matches with him. It's a village pub in the sticks mainly in a wealthy and farm community type area. My mate lives there with his partner and has been drinking and living there with his partner for around 5 years they know just about everyone that drinks in there.

So Sunday afternoon comes and the pub is pretty empty, around 10-12 locals and me, my mate and his girlfriend. Some fella is telling jokes to the whole pub and entertaining people thoroughly - It began with harmless innuendo and crap plays on words, then digressed into The English Irish and Scottish routine - which to be fair still would have been told with all three nationalities present and I didn't deem it to be massively harmful although wasn't overly impressed.

He then announced "You all like racist jokes - don't you?" Now I was getting up and walking outside to smoke a roll-up and when faced with the question, my initial and gut reaction was voiced, "No" I said firmly.

"Who said that?" the fella at the bar asked..... My mate of 19 years said "his name is Nick, - Just ignore him" I carried on walking out the door and had my fag outside, I heard whilst smoking the laughter at the jokes he told.

When I re-entered the pub it went silent. (Yes, I'm the bad guy here for being 'all difficult' about not wanting to join in in spreading institutionalised racism.)

I held my tongue and finished my pint and left with my friends (I admit not without looking at the guy like if he said any more, I may do something about it he might not be fond of.)

On the way out a bunch of people at the door mainly in there 50's said "OOh some great jokes there eh, mate? You can't beat a laugh in a pub - it's what Englishness and a pub is all about....."

"What do you mean, 'Pffft'..." he said, noticing my response.... "I kept walking only out of respect for the fact that my mates lived there and everybody has known everybody for a long time and had to continue living there after my visit."

Later on that night I asked him if he understood my reaction and explained to him that I was slightly aggrieved that he told the guy to ignore me and carry on with his racist entertainment. He didn't understand. He didn't get it - he disagreed with me very defensively stating he knew the people there and they weren't racist.

I tried telling him what institutionalised racism was, I tried to say that just because everybody there was white - that it still caused harm. I said I didn't want to sit in an environment where people feel safe telling racist jokes. I asked him if he would have tolerated religious jokes if his girlfriend or he were deeply religious - I asked him if a joke offended an individual, a friend, or his family if he would have tolerated it..... but he firmly said that he thought the events were harmless and that we "should not discuss it or we might fall out"

On Monday evening I realised I was still really angry about this. I decided to telephone him and discuss it. After the pleasantries were done I outlined my position and how upset I was, I told him that he may not understand my position entirely but having been my mate for 19 years he should respect it. I asked him how he would feel if I spent my time taking the piss behind his back telling everybody he was a certain way or a certain type of person using stereotypes and then come visit and be his best mate. He said that he wouldn't like it. I asked him how I could then go out with my friends the following day (who he knows are all black) having sat in a village pub the weekend before laughing and joining in with racist jokes. I told him I would be a bastard for doing either and that I wouldn't want to look people in the eye having done so.

So he took my view on board but still thinks I over-reacted and am over-sensitive.

The following weekend I spent the time with 5 of my friends, who, I have travelled to every Euro and World Cup with since France 98. I sat with their families, drank wine and beer laughed all night, talked about politics, prejudice, shared stories of historical perceptions, examined the habits of other cultures, talked about genetics, why certain races and their environment and history made them excel at certain disciplines of sport, we talked about Israel and Palestine and all readily acknowledged our ignorance regarding the situation there and vowed to learn more, we talked about hot women, and of football teams which play in a style...... I had a normal night with my friends, the sort of night I'm used to. It's not better than the nights I share drinking in the village pub with my mates, nor is it worse - I, however got to sit, look my friends in the eye, knowing my conscience was clear, Knowing that when I thanked them for the food and shook their hands that I had been true to myself and true to them.

N.

I think youve made a good point, just because there were all the same race at that place, it ddn't mean it was ok to make racial remarks that would be offensive if a perosn of that race would be there. There is a fine line between humouring stereotypes and many comedians do it light heartidly and we all like having a laugh at others and ourselves AND insulting another race\religion etc!!!

[Raj]

ASDA have an offer on Shredded Wheat!

Just thought Id continue the vein of wildly off-topic posting

Why arent Coco pops on Offer??

Just cos they are blackish

RACIST!

[Bellend Sebastian]

This man in my god!

I hate to be a party pooper, but he's talking about a nation created by nicking a load of land off some black folk

[Guest Basildon Fox]

Why arent Coco pops on Offer??

Just cos they are blackish

RACIST!

AHEM!! Joke done at post 106

[Budweiser]

I hate Islam

[Monk]

I thought this was a thread about racial casualism?

[Raj]

AHEM!! Joke done at post 106

Ah BUT its the way you tell em...and i told em better!!!

[Thracian]

Thrac, I admire the energy your putting into highlighting the issue's of racism, but I would have alot more respect for you if you would highlight racism as a whole, rather then racism against white's. There's ignorance in all societies, some cultures are based around ignorant ideologies, all your doing is segragating the issue on colour, which some my say is ignorant cus we all know racism is a universal issue. Rather then divide and isolate, why not unite!!

This debate developed in response to a specific racist complaint. That a (presumably) white lowlife made racist remarks at a black man's expense.

The complaint prompted predictable condemnation of the kind I've read on here before and always from people reacting not to racism in general but to racism against black or coloured people by whites.

And when I quoted an equally current example of the vilest tirade of racist abuse by a black man against a white those same reactionaries uttered barely a whimper of condemnation. Nor did they seek to condemn or at least examine the Diouf incident.

They prefer to hijack the concept of "racism" as a vehicle to prosecute their own aims - conveniently perpetrating the concept of whites being anti-black but wholly ignoring the reality that blacks can be, and often are, as vehemently racist against whites.

[Thracian]

oh for goodness sake give it a rest you boring boring person. nearly all of us lost relatives in the war, dont go pulling that card you just make yourself look more rediculous....

I wouldn't dream of trying to second guess the reasons for the actions and decisions of Indian Muslims. I was speaking for my family.

[Guest]

I take it that you don't include Leicester City Council?

Ooh, one of the many thousands. Well done.

So speaketh the wise one.

You really shouldn't say any of that. It will only create disharmony and will probably upset Lisa as well. Have you no sensitivity?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

[Nick]

This debate developed in response to a specific racist complaint. That a (presumably) white lowlife made racist remarks at a black man's expense.

The complaint prompted predictable condemnation of the kind I've read on here before and always from people reacting not to racism in general but to racism against black or coloured people by whites.

And when I quoted an equally current example of the vilest tirade of racist abuse by a black man against a white those same reactionaries uttered barely a whimper of condemnation. Nor did they seek to condemn or at least examine the Diouf incident.

They prefer to hijack the concept of "racism" as a vehicle to prosecute their own aims - conveniently perpetrating the concept of whites being anti-black but wholly ignoring the reality that blacks can be, and often are, as vehemently racist against whites.

Hi Thrac, your examples are not only weak but not comparable.

Racism is about power.

It's pretty tough for a black person to be racist against white people - extremely prejudice yes, maybe.

The difference lies in the imbalance of 'social weight' carried by the context of behaviour.

For example if I or a black person were to call you a "white-skinned, twat" - the only real thing to be upset about is you being a twat.

If you called a black person a "dirty black nigger" - you must realise as a black person the phrase has meaning and social and historical weight based around the fact that white people persecuted black people for 400 years of slavery.

The difference between the two comments is vast. The very fact that this is true, still proves the fact that inequality is no where near gone from British culture.

Bearing this in mind your comment, I quote: "the reality that blacks can be, and often are, as vehemently racist against whites" is complete nonsense and the typically defensive remarks of a generation of white British people that 'just don't get it' and about as palatable as a cold cup of sick.

As a white person Thracian you are not responsible for the 400 years of slavery endured by an entire race of people but you are responsible for your own learning and yes we all know that there are incidents where black people 'play a race card or maybe make false accusations of racism' but this is not comparable to what black people experience every day in a society that remains in-equal. Nor is it a rational argument to support, or counter casual racism.

N.

[acooling08]

Lisa, whats not to dislike or even hate about Islam?

I'm not one of those skinhead idiots who goes round saying all muslims are bombers but still...

they oppress women, stone homosexuals, want sharia law (barbaric) in UK, kill animals horribly to make halal meat etc

Islam apparently means 'love' but islam is based on anything but. Muslims are obliged to convert all muslims using whatever means they see fit. They are hyper-sensitive and will not tolerate anyone questioning or criticising them. They play the 'poor me' card far too much and make no effort to integrate. We get nothing in return for allowing them to build mosques and schools. Those born here seem to hate this country and have no gratitude for the fact that their ancestors were allowed to come here and settle.

[Raj]

Lisa, whats not to dislike or even hate about Islam?

I'm not one of those skinhead idiots who goes round saying all muslims are bombers but still...

they oppress women, stone homosexuals, want sharia law (barbaric) in UK, kill animals horribly to make halal meat etc

Islam apparently means 'love' but islam is based on anything but. Muslims are obliged to convert all muslims using whatever means they see fit. They are hyper-sensitive and will not tolerate anyone questioning or criticising them. They play the 'poor me' card far too much and make no effort to integrate. We get nothing in return for allowing them to build mosques and schools. Those born here seem to hate this country and have no gratitude for the fact that their ancestors were allowed to come here and settle.

I hope for your sake alot of that was in jest...if not you should stop reading The Sun or Daily Star.

Until you ACTUALLY Know ANY muslims(Which i doubt you do) you should keep quiet.

"better to be thought a fool than to express ones opinions and dismiss all doubt one is a fool"

P.S NO im not a muslim by the way....