Leicester v PNE Post Match Thread.

[Fez of Mahrez]

I actually agree that Oakley would make a very decent right-back and would be preferable to Neilson. If King can cope playing in a midfield pair in the Championship, which is still open to question, then I wouldn't be opposed to Oakley at right-back. Dyer at left-back, on the other hand, is nonsensical. He can't head or tackle to save his life and no amount of overlapping is going to save that. It would be an absolute nightmare. Always provokes discussion though.

[flanimal]

I really think Howard should be dropped. I think he''s a good player, but he isn't doing it, we need to put him on the bench, and either put in Gallagher or Kermorgant (who seemed to add something, that unpredictability that we lack so badly).

Since Gallagher got shoehorned into the team, we look off balance, and every performance since has been unconvinced. Might have won a couple, but our midfield seems to get over run - we are not good enough to be playing 4-3-3 or a diamond midfield - especially with centre midfielders playing wide.

[marbelladave]

Thracian.

Whilst I agree with much of your assessment as to where things are going wrong I can not agree with your recipe for putting things right. I feel Tunchev and Hobbs have to play together. They are easily our most effective pairing and if we have to live with Tunchev finding his feet for a game or two then so be it. At least we know what we are trying to achieve.

Oakley at right back may well be a decent call but as one of just three 'proper' central midfielders in our squad I fear he is more needed elsewhere. Though perhaps not ideal the Oakley--King--Wellens midfield is our best option at this time.

Up front we need pace and width to support Fryatt, maybe even a bit of Gallagher's nous. Flank Fryatt with players who can support him by showing for balls played through on the ground or make runs in the channels or even better out wide and we just might start scoring a few goals.

Some on this forum may say that arguing with your self out loud, or at least in writing, is a sign of madness!

So what, I have already been called 'mental' today so who cares!

[Thracian]

Thracian.

Whilst I agree with much of your assessment as to where things are going wrong I can not agree with your recipe for putting things right. I feel Tunchev and Hobbs have to play together. They are easily our most effective pairing and if we have to live with Tunchev finding his feet for a game or two then so be it. At least we know what we are trying to achieve.

Oakley at right back may well be a decent call but as one of just three 'proper' central midfielders in our squad I fear he is more needed elsewhere. Though perhaps not ideal the Oakley--King--Wellens midfield is our best option at this time.

Up front we need pace and width to support Fryatt, maybe even a bit of Gallagher's nous. Flank Fryatt with players who can support him by showing for balls played through on the ground or make runs in the channels or even better out wide and we just might start scoring a few goals.

Some on this forum may say that arguing with your self out loud, or at least in writing, is a sign of madness!

So what, I have already been called 'mental' today so who cares!

I don't disagree that Oakley/King/Wellens is by far our best central midfield. It just knackers the balance of the rest of the side.

I've wracked my brain to see how we can install more pace, more passing and more goalscoring/goal creating potential into the side and this seems to only option.

Oakley's going to be picked cos he's skipper and to be fair he's playing okay. If he plays and King doesn't we've no anchor and no-one plugging the gaps that are left when the Oakley/Wellens combination loses the ball.

That's like sailing off in a boat with leaking timbers.

Moving Oakley to the right wing is unsatisfactory as we lose his constant involvement in the centre and any serious chance of attacking the opposition full-back at pace and either getting behind their defence or drawing defenders out of position in potentially vital places.

But if he's good enough at full-back we get his passing, his leadership, his competent support play, his reliable control and reading of the runners in front of him plus his considerable durability and involvement with set pieces if required.

All without sacrificing a specialist winger or forcing us to do without our fulcrum central midfielder.

[Fez of Mahrez]

Have you forgotten Waghorn completely, Thracian? I can't help thinking that he is the one we need to give some proper game time, probably out wide.

Just seen the player rating you gave him yesterday. I think he's a very good player waiting to be given more than ten minutes per game. A run in the side could offer us a lot.

[Thracian]

He can't head or tackle to save his life and no amount of overlapping is going to save that. It would be an absolute nightmare. Always provokes discussion though.

I tend to agree about that and the situation is not made easier by the fact that we have no natural "assistant" for him on the left either (though I remain surprised that Gradel's never been played there).

But there are no obvious options and Dyer seemed worth the risk, at least as an experiment. I'm not convinced about Berner and certainly don't see him as any sort of Holy Grail in a team intent on scoring goals consistently but if you have a suggestion I'd welcome it.

I'd also concede that changing both full-backs would probably be too radical an ask in any case even for someone with my commitment to attacking quickly and in numbers.

It just means that we remain impotent down the left and, for a club with our resources to be in that position, seems ridiculous.

[Thracian]

Have you forgotten Waghorn completely, Thracian? I can't help thinking that he is the one we need to give some proper game time, probably out wide.

Just seen the player rating you gave him yesterday. I think he's a very good player waiting to be given more than ten minutes per game. A run in the side could offer us a lot.

I've tended to discount him for now, yes. Partly because Pearson seems to have given him no more than a bit part.

My first impressions are that he seems to be all frantic energy and little outcome, perhaps because he doesn't get his head up enough to see the pictures.

But I'm more than happy to be proved wrong and am certainly interested in why you think he'd make a wide player.

[Fez of Mahrez]

I've tended to discount him for now, yes. Partly because Pearson seems to have given him no more than a bit part.

My first impressions are that he seems to be all frantic energy and little outcome, perhaps because he doesn't get his head up enough to see the pictures.

But I'm more than happy to be proved wrong and am certainly interested in why you think he'd make a wide player.

I think his darting run and cross for N'Guessan's goal at Watford probably demonstrated it more than anything. We haven't created enough when he's had a brief chance paired with Fryatt (Sheffield United for an hour and when Howard went off yesterday) and Fryatt can't, shouldn't and won't be dropped obviously. There's a chance for either Kermorgant or Gallagher to partner Fryatt and for it to work. I've discounted Campbell on the basis that Pearson won't pick him so it's not worth my effort typing anything further about him than this sentence.

Waghorn looks a busy, hard-working player who would track back and also enjoy some one-touch football involving Wellens and Gallagher. We clearly didn't protect the full-backs well enough yesterday and N'Guessan will find it hard to learn the positional play quickly in order to do that any time soon. Waghorn also doesn't strike me as a clearly defined centre forward, and certainly less of one than Gallagher who's been playing wide. I reckon it's worth a stab as Pearson clearly isn't sure in his mind of his best wide players and I'm not sure any of the fans could be confident either.

On the left-back question, we do have McGivern who is very highly-rated at Manchester City as a prospect for the future. Personally I've been extremely impressed with Berner though. If anything it could be our strongest position if McGivern is anywhere near as good as some Man City fans suggest.

[Thracian]

I think his darting run and cross for N'Guessan's goal at Watford probably demonstrated it more than anything. We haven't created enough when he's had a brief chance paired with Fryatt (Sheffield United for an hour and when Howard went off yesterday) and Fryatt can't, shouldn't and won't be dropped obviously. There's a chance for either Kermorgant or Gallagher to partner Fryatt and for it to work. I've discounted Campbell on the basis that Pearson won't pick him so it's not worth my effort typing anything further about him than this sentence.

Waghorn looks a busy, hard-working player who would track back and also enjoy some one-touch football involving Wellens and Gallagher. We clearly didn't protect the full-backs well enough yesterday and N'Guessan will find it hard to learn the positional play quickly in order to do that any time soon. Waghorn also doesn't strike me as a clearly defined centre forward, and certainly less of one than Gallagher who's been playing wide. I reckon it's worth a stab as Pearson clearly isn't sure in his mind of his best wide players and I'm not sure any of the fans could be confident either.

On the left-back question, we do have McGivern who is very highly-rated at Manchester City as a prospect for the future. Personally I've been extremely impressed with Berner though. If anything it could be our strongest position if McGivern is anywhere near as good as some Man City fans suggest.

Well, it's a fleeting moment on which to base a theory but every journey starts with the first step and I'll watch his future contributions with interest and with what you say in mind.

As for McGivern I've never seen him play and know nothing about his style. I just hope he's the sort of fast and expansive full-back I've been longing to see at City - a bloke capable of biting in defence but of creating in attack.

PS:

You may be surprised but, on reflection, I've dismissed the idea of Dyer as left-back and trusted to your optimism over McGivern. And I'd agree that the whole question as to who's our best left-winger is open to endless debate. There's very little recent evidence to make a case in favour of anyone.

I'm surprised that the manager doesn't seem to know, unless he's based his 4-3-3 approach on the fact that he honestly believes none of the wingers are good enough.

Whether he's right or wrong, I don't see 4-3-3 as the way forward, either philosophically or from seeing the plan in action. There just seems to be too many flaws and limitations at least when using the current personnel.

[maddog]

I think his darting run and cross for N'Guessan's goal at Watford probably demonstrated it more than anything. We haven't created enough when he's had a brief chance paired with Fryatt (Sheffield United for an hour and when Howard went off yesterday) and Fryatt can't, shouldn't and won't be dropped obviously. There's a chance for either Kermorgant or Gallagher to partner Fryatt and for it to work. I've discounted Campbell on the basis that Pearson won't pick him so it's not worth my effort typing anything further about him than this sentence.

Waghorn looks a busy, hard-working player who would track back and also enjoy some one-touch football involving Wellens and Gallagher. We clearly didn't protect the full-backs well enough yesterday and N'Guessan will find it hard to learn the positional play quickly in order to do that any time soon. Waghorn also doesn't strike me as a clearly defined centre forward, and certainly less of one than Gallagher who's been playing wide. I reckon it's worth a stab as Pearson clearly isn't sure in his mind of his best wide players and I'm not sure any of the fans could be confident either.

On the left-back question, we do have McGivern who is very highly-rated at Manchester City as a prospect for the future. Personally I've been extremely impressed with Berner though. If anything it could be our strongest position if McGivern is anywhere near as good as some Man City fans suggest.

I would gamble and put McGivern who hasn't played at left back and Berner on the left wing.

He gets forward well Berner and has shown that he can dribble with the ball and run with it fast up the line, infact up the whole pitch a few times this season.

That would also solve the Gallagher situation.

And when Berner gets tired on the left wing, he is 31, you could bring Dyer on.

But where that leaves Gallagher i don't know, probably a place on the bench which could knock Kermo or Adams out the squad completely which will be no good for them.

But knowing Pearson, if he did that Gallagher would end up playing on the right wing, which wouldn't help us really.

[CosbehFox]

The problem is quite simple really, we are faciliting too many players to ensure them game time. It's better to be balanced and having them all fighting for a place.

Kermorgant looked decent albeit always harsh to judge on a few minutes compared to Howard's time but he's gotta be worth a go sooner or later. He looks creative, gets his head up well and raises like a salmon. I think we have some very clever players attacking but we've got ensure the balance is still there.

As for the back four, it's back to basics. Keep it simple and organised. What I found rather was baffling was that Tunch struggled against the strong Chris Brown in the Cup game and we still employ him again against the same player. Whilst Brown was found wanting against the clever play of Mellor.

[chesterfox]

The problem is quite simple really, we are faciliting too many players to ensure them game time. It's better to be balanced and having them all fighting for a place.

Kermorgant looked decent albeit always harsh to judge on a few minutes compared to Howard's time but he's gotta be worth a go sooner or later. He looks creative, gets his head up well and raises like a salmon. I think we have some very clever players attacking but we've got ensure the balance is still there.

As for the back four, it's back to basics. Keep it simple and organised. What I found rather was baffling was that Tunch struggled against the strong Chris Brown in the Cup game and we still employ him again against the same player. Whilst Brown was found wanting against the clever play of Mellor.

Agreed for the most part - NP needs to decide on his best side and play it. It never works having players playing as stop gaps - surely we should make it an advantage having a depth of centre backs/wingers not a disadvantage as it now appears to be. Incidentally very harsh on Brown yesterday - many times ' the parting of the Red Sea' found Brown totally isolated and alone surely Tunchev's fault not Browns?

NP has some srious ?s to answer - not least how to return to attractive footbal as opposed to the awful hoof football witnessed yesterday! It was awful.....and it didnt take a genius to observe that Preston were of that type with 6ft 6ers across the whole team.

Final point - agree with Thrac about fans picking and choosing games, but yesterday's atmosphere was just so poor - I was in my seat by 13.45 and cd not believe how quiet outside the stadium was & inside during the game - there was even very little banter with the Preston fans.

[reynard]

Personally whilst being disappointed to lose I'm not too disheartened as I'm hoping both the management and us fans will learn a lot from the game about our realistic ambitions for the season.

Preston were the better team, by which I mean they played as a true team who knew where their team mates were, how to find them and how to break with speed and purpose. They looked like a team very used to playing at this level. The encouraging thing for me was that at times there wasn't really that much to choose between the two sides. Had we taken our chances we may have earned a draw from the game.

All this doesn't mean that there aren't areas where we need to improve, though the question is are we able to?

Our defence looks very one paced. Had we had a right back with pace their second goal may well not have been scored.

We are playing players out of position because we do not have enough quality in depth in certain areas of the pitch, most notably in midfield where we desperately need more quality and especially a player who can dip their shoulder and run at defences.

The gap between our defence and attack was massive at times and has been all season which allows the opponents too much time on the ball in the centre of the pitch.

With the excpetion of Fryatt our strikers don't look like scoring.

Currently we look like a mid table team who should finish between 10th and 15th and with a great deal of luck could possibly challenge for the final play off spot. However, on current form, should anything happen to Fryatt then I would revise that as a finish somewhere between 13th and 18th.

[CosbehFox]

Incidentally very harsh on Brown yesterday - many times ' the parting of the Red Sea' found Brown totally isolated and alone surely Tunchev's fault not Browns?

I agree. Brown was in that awful situation of a defender where if you go the bloke will just pass it around you or you stick for as long you can in the hope the player makes a bad touch. Brown's problem yesterday was that he seemed to forgot those basics what we groaned about a few weeks ago ie. the header two inch off the floor as opposed to whacking it long.

[Salieri]

What has happened to our previously sturdy defence? We have conceded as many goals (5) in the last two games as we had in the previous SEVEN league matches.

We've gone from having Brown and Hobbs playing very well, coupled with the prospect of the Tunch returning (plus the forgotten man Morrison) to the situation we have now.

A lot of people were singing Browns praises not so long ago but it seems he has gone from hero to zero pretty quickly.

So what is the reason and what is the solution? Is it simply a loss of form on Browns part (and to an extent Hobbs) plus the fact Tunchev is not yet fully match fit?

The defence was the last thing i was worried abut not so long ago, but that has now changed.

[Daggers]

A lot of people were singing Browns praises not so long ago but it seems he has gone from hero to zero pretty quickly.

People are stupid

[maddog]

Opinions have certainly changed.

Pre-Season i was only worried about the strikers and Fryatt not scoring.

Now i'm worried about the defence getting caught, the total lack of midfield, the poor striker up front with Fryatt and Nigel Pearsons team selection tactics and subs.

If Wheale makes a shocking mistake i will be worried about every player on the park, except Tunch of course.

It's crucial the boys perform well Tuesday and turn this negative around.

From the home games against P'Boro and Preston, and Watford away you'd expect us to get more than the 2 points we got, especially considering the 2-0 lead squandered at Watford, and P'boro struggling. And our record at the Walkers been so amazing.

We need to cut this bad run short before we get stuck in one.

[James.]

As far as I can make out Brown has been praised when he played well and slated when he played badly. Seems fair enough, right?

I've only seen him once (Blackpool) and I thought he was very good (and marked him higher than most others) but it appears he hasn't maintained the standards he set in the first few games of the season.

[Fez of Mahrez]

As far as I can make out Brown has been praised when he played well and slated when he played badly. Seems fair enough, right?

I've only seen him once (Blackpool) and I thought he was very good (and marked him higher than most others) but it appears he hasn't maintained the standards he set in the first few games of the season.

He was one of our best players in the first few games and I was praising him highly every week but he was largely at fault for Blackpool's goal and was terrible against Peterborough. Didn't think he was awful yesterday but wasn't good at all and that is bound to bring criticism when Hobbs is sat on the bench.

[Heart-Shaped Fox]

He was one of our best players in the first few games and I was praising him highly every week but he was largely at fault for Blackpool's goal and was terrible against Peterborough. Didn't think he was awful yesterday but wasn't good at all and that is bound to bring criticism when Hobbs is sat on the bench.

I think he was arguably the best player in August and now the worst in September.

Quite a turnaround.

[maddog]

He was one of our best players in the first few games and I was praising him highly every week but he was largely at fault for Blackpool's goal and was terrible against Peterborough. Didn't think he was awful yesterday but wasn't good at all and that is bound to bring criticism when Hobbs is sat on the bench.

He was at fault for their 2nd goal due to not closing down and getting a challenge in.

He also was miles away from his man in the box leaving him a free header, shocking defending.

I think his confidence has slowly been chipped away throughout the last few games, and as the game went on yesterday he seemed to keep losing it, and i think he was slightly lucky on those occasions when he tamely backed off and just went to ground to get the tackles in.

A confident Brown would charge down their players like a bull and break their fooking legs.

[carterfox90]

I think after seeing that performance yesterday it might actually turn out to be a blessing in disguise for us.

Yes, I am annoyed with the result but it might just be a wake up call to some of the players that we arent as good as we think we are and the performance of PNE is the sort we need to live up to, especially away from home.

Yes, we were bad, but they are a good team who are big and strong and almost seemed to stop us from playing. We underestimated them and I hope NP has had harsh words, which will hopefully be the factor in a win on Tuessday.

spot on ditto

[Raj]

Love it how some fans have ALL the answers.

They should get their FA badges!!!

[Raj]

We're still finding our feet in this League.

we've got the best chance for years to achieve a decent finish after all the prev crap seasons.

Established CChip teams struggle to get a run together.

Ex Prem teams arent exactly setting the League on fire(Reading)

We were pretty shit on Sat but Preston are no fcukwits.

I REALLY can see some of our inbreds calling for Np's head by Xmas.

P.S YES i realise we ARE MASSIVE and should be top of the League!!

[CosbehFox]

He was at fault for their 2nd goal due to not closing down and getting a challenge in.

If he went to close him down, Mellor would have squared it earlier. He had to do it on a couple of occasions and did it pretty well.