Cant_Fox_You Posted 12 August 2010 Posted 12 August 2010 Without the relegation to L1, i dont think we would of progressed back on the 'right track'. Milan has done some good and stablised us since Pearson came in. Pre Pearson i agree, we as a club were a shambles. I just think hadnt the relegation occured, we would of been relegation candidates or lower mid table with clubs like Cov and we certainly wouldnt of been an attractive prospect for a consortium.
J.Lisemore Posted 12 August 2010 Posted 12 August 2010 I respect Mandaric, he came in at a tough time and we looked like we were going down anyway with fooking Stephen Hughes and Andy Johnson in the middle...never mind Elvis Hammond. He made bad decisions but yeh overall we are in a much better position than what we were before. Seeing as hes barely putting his hand in his pocket though, probably the right time for new investors
Jordan Posted 12 August 2010 Posted 12 August 2010 1 million (rounded up) for takeover 16 million on the ground 24 million in losses (which the 6m he was obliged to put up will be part of). That's about 40 million Having said that, he didn't take over the debt on the ground, he just said he'd cover it, the ground is till owned by Teachers as far as I know, if it wasn't Milan would have told us you can be sure of that. I didn't listen to the press conference but I think I'm as qualified as anyone to write a bunch of made-up conjecture that might somehow be confused as fact. There are a few figures that keep being bandied about: about #40 million for the value of the club/takeover amount, #16 million for the stadium debt, #24 million in operating losses for LCFC over the past few years, #2 million that Mandaric and Hoos owe to their bookies... some of these numbers are near the truth while others are pure speculation. Anyway... The numbers hackneyfox wrote above make some sort of sense to me. However, I was wondering that, since everything adds up kind-of-neatly, is it possible that Asia Football Investments completed the deal without even having to take out their checkbooks (sorry, "chequebooks')? Here's how I imagine this made-up scenario: the stadium debt is now off of Milan's back and now on one or both of the Raksriaksorns, the whole non-Milan part of the consortium, the businesses involved or whatever. We'll have a new person sending the same payments to TIAA-CREF until that hole is filled, and Milan won't have to worry about digging into his own bank accounts (and making loans to the club?) anymore. As for the other 24 mil or so, he could have been given that in the form of his new share of Asian Football Investments. Let's say he owns about half of the club still, as was speculated wildly earlier--he'll then stand to make half of any profits made without having to worry about financing the stadium. And if the club wins promotion, he'll get a huge pay day. It seemed like Milan really wanted to free himself of the bleeding that's come with taking over LCFC but the imagined scenario above might have been the best offer he was going to get. Now, back to the stadium debt--I've mentioned in other threads (like talk about the Glazers/Man U in General Sport) that debt isn't always the worst thing in the world. As other people love to mention it can always be "transfered" (as Milan probably just did). Our new owners might be able to kill the debt in one fell swoop, but that might not be the best thing to do unless they've got a stupid amount of cash to inject into the club. If not, then it might not make sense to spend #16 million to pay off the debt when than less money than that can be invested into the playing squad--which could then result in promotion and a nice return. I'll assume that AFI can, begrudgingly, handle the scheduled payments of it just fine and worry about paying off the remainder of the debt when a better time comes. The AFI guys probably have enough creditworthiness anyway (I hope).
The Don Posted 12 August 2010 Posted 12 August 2010 I think this is the most sense i've heard today!! I didn't listen to the press conference but I think I'm as qualified as anyone to write a bunch of made-up conjecture that might somehow be confused as fact.There are a few figures that keep being bandied about: about #40 million for the value of the club/takeover amount, #16 million for the stadium debt, #24 million in operating losses for LCFC over the past few years, #2 million that Mandaric and Hoos owe to their bookies... some of these numbers are near the truth while others are pure speculation. Anyway...The numbers hackneyfox wrote above make some sort of sense to me. However, I was wondering that, since everything adds up kind-of-neatly, is it possible that Asia Football Investments completed the deal without even having to take out their checkbooks (sorry, "chequebooks')?Here's how I imagine this made-up scenario: the stadium debt is now off of Milan's back and now on one or both of the Raksriaksorns, the whole non-Milan part of the consortium, the businesses involved or whatever. We'll have a new person sending the same payments to TIAA-CREF until that hole is filled, and Milan won't have to worry about digging into his own bank accounts (and making loans to the club?) anymore.As for the other 24 mil or so, he could have been given that in the form of his new share of Asian Football Investments. Let's say he owns about half of the club still, as was speculated wildly earlier--he'll then stand to make half of any profits made without having to worry about financing the stadium. And if the club wins promotion, he'll get a huge pay day. It seemed like Milan really wanted to free himself of the bleeding that's come with taking over LCFC but the imagined scenario above might have been the best offer he was going to get.Now, back to the stadium debt--I've mentioned in other threads (like talk about the Glazers/Man U in General Sport) that debt isn't always the worst thing in the world. As other people love to mention it can always be "transfered" (as Milan probably just did). Our new owners might be able to kill the debt in one fell swoop, but that might not be the best thing to do unless they've got a stupid amount of cash to inject into the club. If not, then it might not make sense to spend #16 million to pay off the debt when than less money than that can be invested into the playing squad--which could then result in promotion and a nice return. I'll assume that AFI can, begrudgingly, handle the scheduled payments of it just fine and worry about paying off the remainder of the debt when a better time comes. The AFI guys probably have enough creditworthiness anyway (I hope).
Blue Bob Posted 12 August 2010 Posted 12 August 2010 Depends which version of the truth you want to believe, on paper or real money. Accountants have a wonderful way of playing with figures to make it seem like you are better off / worse off than you really are be appreciation, depreciation, off setting taxes against losses and all sorts of other Jedi mind tricks. The onlt people who really will know is Mandaric and his accountant and that too is debateable. So how any one here is going to even have a vague clue I would love to know, unless of course your are best mates with a bloke whos sister is dating this chap who's great granny by a second marriage is Manadaric tea lady who just happened to bring in the milk chocolate hobb nobbs and earl grey just at that moment when he said £40 million it is then!!
Bettsj2 Posted 12 August 2010 Posted 12 August 2010 All I know is, however much Milan did or didnt put in, he wanted the club, he bought the club. Unlike all of the other Leicester based business men that just blow a load of hot air. He hasn't broken any records with regards to transfer cash and we have maintained a fairly rigid wage structure. The youth team is still churning products out and the last couple of years have seen a great improvement on the pitch. Yes the first year was turbulent and the relegation was less than ideal, but sometimes you have to take a step back in order to move forward. We'd been flirting with relegation long before Mandric turned up and it did give us the chance to rebuild and we have come back stronger. There is a lot of anti-Mandric feeling around the forums and phone ins and i've never quite understood why. Nobody knows for sure the financial ins and outs of his takeover and subsequent sale, so all we can go on is what we see on the pitch. And this compared to before he arrived is 10 times better. I would like someone to lay out exactly why these ill feelings towards him exist but without talking about speculation and actually talking about facts (sorry to sound like Benitez!!)
Jordan Posted 12 August 2010 Posted 12 August 2010 I think this is the most sense i've heard today!! If LCFC aren't going to fill in the blanks, then goddamnit, I'll do it myself!
SilverFox Posted 12 August 2010 Posted 12 August 2010 The old dog's done good. How do you know? He could have sold the club to anyone. We still only know who one member of the consortiun is.
Jackirius Posted 12 August 2010 Posted 12 August 2010 I personally think that he has done a good job for us and am thankful for that. I hope the new owners can continue to help us progress and eventually get back where we belong in the premier league.
fleckneymike Posted 12 August 2010 Posted 12 August 2010 Milan is not nor will he ever be a Leicester fan. Milan is a business man. He orchestrated a very good PR campaign to get the club for peanuts and now he's sold 100% of the club for an unspecified amount to a consortium headed by a 25 year old son of a Thai businessman whilst remaining as chairman because he's a 'stakeholder' in the club. No details of the sale have been made public at all so excuse me and a few others if we're a tad sceptical. With regards all this we wouldn't be where we are now without Milan you're 100% correct. Without Milan we'd never have been able to increase our debt whilst remaining in the same division (albeit a few places further up the league). We'd never have been able to hire a scout who'd then leave mysteriously a few weeks later after landing us with Jimmy Neilson and Kaebi. We'd never have got to see 9 managers come through the door. We'd never have been able to see Milan introduce us to his nephew adorned in a Gareth McCauley shirt because that his favourite player (and this was in no way connected to the fact that McCauley had scored the week before). Oh and Milan owns Belvoir drive by the way. I wonder why he bought that?
Jordan Posted 12 August 2010 Posted 12 August 2010 fleckneymike gets a point on his "reputation" meter. BTW, the Bangkok Post is reporting that AFI have bought LCFC for a reported sum of 2 billion baht (which, by the way, calculates to approximately 40 million pounds). In other words, reportedly, we're reportedly BILLIONAIRES. (Reportedly, I may add.)
Guest ttfn Posted 13 August 2010 Posted 13 August 2010 Mandaric paid hardly anything for the club, but was contractually obliged to inject something in the region of £6million as terms of the takeover. He also took on the stadium debt, which makes up the bulk of the £25 million figure as far as I'm aware. For it to be a £40 million takeover now then he has to have been financing us with loans and got his money back. I'm sorry but I feel the need to clarify this. As a liability the loan reduces the value of the club. So the debt on the stadium reduces the value of the club. By buying the club, Mandaric's (and the new owners') only responsibility regarding the ground is to underwrite it. Assuming they run the club properly, and don't throw money away, they never 'own' or 'buy' the stadium - they merely underwrite it. To conclude, Mandaric didn't 'take on' the stadium debt. He just underwrote it. Ignore the stadium, it's virtually irrelevant in valuing the club. Any reduction in value caused by the risk it puts on the club is offset by the fact that it needs to be underwritten.
samuel Posted 13 August 2010 Posted 13 August 2010 Right, let me wade into the takeover talk in a wildly speculative manner too! I am a born cynic, particularly when it comes to figures that are bandied around, not just by bumface himself, but the Mercury and other tin pot sources. Let' me try and explain what Milan has done in reallity since his tenure at this club started. Firstly, he had a pretty stable ride in acquiring this club, his "competitors" if you like, were jumped up local business people who apart from having no balls and no money, offered little more than lip service to a possible takeover and let's be honest, I don't blame them. A mediocre championship club, as they were at the time, doesn't fill your bowls with cherries does it? After outlandish claims of the imminent demise of the club, in rolls the bandwagon with a great shiny knight of opportunity at the helm. The new local hero was here, he had been in football before, he had worked his magic at Portsmouth, he must know what he is doing surely? Let's fudge over what has happened at Portsmouth from the moment he got there, it's irrelevant to us, isn't it?, After demounting from the the bandwagon, he set about courting the shareholders with offers per share, no doubt reciting tales of Portsmouth FC and how he turned it all around and how much the whole city is better off, by this point people were clamouring for a piece of this knight. At the same time he had his PR team working overtime conveying messages of woe, the threat of Administration is looming large, the club will die etc etc. By this point, the majority of shareholders, rightly or wrongly, had been wooed by the knight in blue and white armour, there will still a few who were keen to know how much money exactly he was offering up out of his own pocket, but they were soon drowned out by the cooing and applause of the newly converted Milan-ites and as is the case with these things, the majority wins out. Milan didn't want the noise of the sceptics to be heard in little pockets, in little corners of offices and boardrooms around the county, so the plan was hatched to offer a nice little bonus once the dream was acheived after promotion to the Premiership's promised land. The sceptics still had their doubts but as the old saying goes, if you can't beat 'em, then join 'em. And afterall, greed takes hold of the senses in us all. So the journey began, the refinancing started, the loans from Milan's holding company were agreed, the redundancy ball started rolling, the cutbacks and of course, the naive contracts offered to average footballers.Oh and let's not forget, the training ground by this point had been "sold" to Milan, the only tangible asset LCFC had! It wasn't too long after that the talk of a state of the art training facility would be needed. Mmm. The journey didn't quite go to plan, but not a problem because the losses were already covered by the loans already agreed weren't they? The one thing he didn't account for though is the economic downturn, it affected us all in one way or another, but now his holding company wasn't worth what is was before in terms of being able to underwrite such losses, even though there were loans that were being repaid by LCFC. The money owed to LCFC's creditors needs to be in liquid form and needs to be called upon when needed, his holding company doesn't have the liquidity anymore and it can't be sustained much longer. Now what does he do?. End up with egg on his face when it becomes apparent he hasn't spent a bean on LCFC out of his own pocket, and stripped LCFC of the one tangible thing of value they had, the pride and ego will take a right hammering, he won't like that, after all he was the messiah wasn't he? No, time is running out for the Messiah, time to work the room again, time to court some suitors. It has worked and just in the nick of time too. Good arrows Milan, you have saved your bumface from a right spanking. Now don't get me wrong, I am sure it has cost him something in a financial sense personally, after all if you had a car after 3 and a half years it would have cost you something you won't get back but I am just speculating as to what this club has cost, don't forget he "paid" 25 million for it! Oh and Milan, how many houses do you think will fit on your "stripped asset" ?
Finnegan Posted 13 August 2010 Posted 13 August 2010 Poor decision making that saw us close to a play off final last season? I agree he made one huge mistake, Martin Allen. But even the biggest white elephant to come from that now seems to be showing some signs that he may just repay the club on the pitch this season. There seems to be an acute distrust around Mandaric and his tenure as owner of the club which I dont really grasp. His time at the helm was a positive thing for LCFC, a club he took on when it desperately needed someone to stick their neck out. How long have you been in PR then, mate?
Bert Posted 13 August 2010 Posted 13 August 2010 Why can't people just be happy that we're seemingly going to be moving forward. Milan has been good for the club whatever his motives are, or were. We were so close to making it last season, and now with a bit more investment we might be able to push that extra mile. I'm not being funny, but we're better than blackpool, regardless of division. We'll never ever know the full ins and outs of the past few years, and everything reported is just speculation. This could be the start of something special, fasten up chaps.
Nick Posted 13 August 2010 Posted 13 August 2010 Why can't people just be happy that we're seemingly going to be moving forward. Milan has been good for the club whatever his motives are, or were. We were so close to making it last season, and now with a bit more investment we might be able to push that extra mile. I'm not being funny, but we're better than blackpool, regardless of division. We'll never ever know the full ins and outs of the past few years, and everything reported is just speculation. This could be the start of something special, fasten up chaps. Bert, you know full well there is no room for optimism combined with sensible and reasonable posting on this forum. What were you thinking?
LCFC-Till I Die Posted 13 August 2010 Posted 13 August 2010 LOok none of us really know what happened is this deal, we know the basic outline, i knew one of the people who sold to milan, and he bought it for 4.5 mill, and said hed pay them that again if they reached the PL in 3 years. Lets face it im not bothered aboutt the deal, aslong as it gives sousa money and we own the stadium or have less of a debt from it then im happy
hackneyfox Posted 13 August 2010 Posted 13 August 2010 So that's 25m according to Milan 4.5m according to PSG's mate 650k according to mine
breadandcheese Posted 13 August 2010 Posted 13 August 2010 As for Mandaric himself he's been full of double talk since he first arrived on the scene. It's a shame that Nigel Pearson is such a dignified guy because he'd have a few things to say about Mandaric's double talk. What he says in private is different to what he says to the media.
davieG Posted 13 August 2010 Posted 13 August 2010 So that's 25m according to Milan 4.5m according to PSG's mate 650k according to mine The deal: http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=27729&view=findpost&p=535381 Or Sohofox's abridged version http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=27729&view=findpost&p=535470
Asherz Posted 13 August 2010 Posted 13 August 2010 i cannot believe some people call them leicester supporters. milan saved leicester from becoming nothing! yes we got relegated but that was the best thing for us... we re-grouped and came back massively stronger! he saved our club.. wether he bought the club for 25 mill or 25p i do not care he saved us thats end of the story . if he had not come along i`d hate to think were we would be right now. i for one will be forever gratefull to him for coming along and saving leicester. . yes he has tried signing davids and pires behind managers backs but if you think buissness minded having players like that here would of bought in more money on shirt sales sponsership
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.