Guest MattP Posted 16 August 2012 Posted 16 August 2012 You don't have any pictures of yo mamma to hand?
Daggers Posted 16 August 2012 Posted 16 August 2012 But it won't stop you trying. You keep bashing at that door, you never know...
Guest MattP Posted 16 August 2012 Posted 16 August 2012 Finally!! Thank you!! (and even with one of my obvious political heroes) :trumpet:
leicsmac Posted 17 August 2012 Posted 17 August 2012 This is Sweden we're talking about here, not Cuba. He'll get a fair trial, if it goes that far. He can take it to the European Court just the same as he can here. Not the point. As someone has said before the Ecuadorians would have allowed Assange to be questioned in their embassy. The point is it's much easier for him to get bundled into a plane heading across the Atlantic from Sweden than it is from here. Yes, we do have a notoriously trigger-happy extradition agreement with the US, but if you want to avoid the whole 'legal due process for extradition' thing then I think it would be much easier for the US to take him from Sweden than here. FWIW it sounds very much like he has a case to answer, but believe me - this process is all about the US getting their hands on him. All about it.
DANGEROUS TIGER Posted 17 August 2012 Posted 17 August 2012 Perhaps if his accusers are telling the truth, seeing his face all over the world's media day after day motivated them to change their mind about keeping quiet? Not that far fetched is it? This. :thumbup:
Jordan Posted 17 August 2012 Posted 17 August 2012 Not the point. As someone has said before the Ecuadorians would have allowed Assange to be questioned in their embassy. The point is it's much easier for him to get bundled into a plane heading across the Atlantic from Sweden than it is from here. Yes, we do have a notoriously trigger-happy extradition agreement with the US, but if you want to avoid the whole 'legal due process for extradition' thing then I think it would be much easier for the US to take him from Sweden than here. FWIW it sounds very much like he has a case to answer, but believe me - this process is all about the US getting their hands on him. All about it. It's worth reminding that--despite the posturing of several politicians and pundits--the United States has not charged Julian Assange with any crime. Nor has Sweden--Assange is wanted for questioning. Cynics can say that the whole Swedish sex crime allegation situation is merely a ploy set up by the United States to buy time to build a case against Assange, charge him and have him extradited to the U.S., or that they're just waiting for Assange to be in custody before filing charges. However, prosecuting Assange under the Espionage Act is very much a complicated and difficult process, no matter how badly some in the U.S. want Assange hanged. Keeping Assange holed up inside the Ecuadorean embassy indefinitely might actually be the U.S. government's best option here, as it avoids an unnecessary conflict, hurts Assange, and forces the standoff to be between Ecuador (which is not exactly China) and the UK (which is obligated under European Law to take Assange into custody and extradite him to the UK the minute he steps back onto British soil).
OzFox Posted 17 August 2012 Posted 17 August 2012 This is Sweden we're talking about here, not Cuba. He'll get a fair trial, if it goes that far. He can take it to the European Court just the same as he can here. Have a gander at this if you can spare the time. http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/07/19/3549280.htm It's a pretty good summary of what happened in Sweden, and doesn't exactly paint the Swedish legal system in a good light. I think Jules has every right to be worried. Here's a bit from the programme transcript. Andrew Fowler is an ABC journalist, Rosander is one of the swedish prosecutors ANDREW FOWLER: Can you understand that the Australian people may not understand how somebody can be accused in their absence when they haven't even been interviewed, then have that rape case dropped, the arrest warrant removed and then have it re-instituted, all in the space of a few days? KARIN ROSANDER: Yeah I can very well understand the confusion and, and, I... that is very difficult to understand, well, exactly how it works. ANDREW FOWLER: Well you call it confusing, it's... it may be slightly more than that. KARIN ROSANDER: Well that's the way it works here in Sweden so, well... but I can understand the confusion, definitely. ANDREW FOWLER: Assange, still hunkered down in the London embassy, has no doubt what his fate will be if he is extradited. JULIAN ASSANGE (on phone): If I was suddenly taken to Sweden, I would not be in a position to apply for political asylum in relation to United States. it would be the end of the road. I would just be taken from one jail to another.
leicsmac Posted 17 August 2012 Posted 17 August 2012 It's worth reminding that--despite the posturing of several politicians and pundits--the United States has not charged Julian Assange with any crime. Nor has Sweden--Assange is wanted for questioning. Cynics can say that the whole Swedish sex crime allegation situation is merely a ploy set up by the United States to buy time to build a case against Assange, charge him and have him extradited to the U.S., or that they're just waiting for Assange to be in custody before filing charges. However, prosecuting Assange under the Espionage Act is very much a complicated and difficult process, no matter how badly some in the U.S. want Assange hanged. Keeping Assange holed up inside the Ecuadorean embassy indefinitely might actually be the U.S. government's best option here, as it avoids an unnecessary conflict, hurts Assange, and forces the standoff to be between Ecuador (which is not exactly China) and the UK (which is obligated under European Law to take Assange into custody and extradite him to the UK the minute he steps back onto British soil). You make a fair point there, Jordan. Maybe I am being a little hyperbolic about the US's use of extraordinary rendition. I just feel that there are powerful interests high in the US military and corporations who have been burned by Assanges reveals, and they have the power and motive to try to gain revenge in any way that they can...by either discrediting the man, or indeed by grabbing him without charge. And those people probably neither answer to the same laws we do nor to the law of popular opinion.
OzFox Posted 17 August 2012 Posted 17 August 2012 I tend to feel that it's now easier just to laugh at those who hold opinions which are so devoid of factual content - as Hitchens said "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence". Disappointed to hear that. It's much more entertaining for others when you lose the plot and use lots of swear words in your putdowns. Stop being so selfish, pull your finger out and come up with something like this: http://www.foxestalk...am#entry2014272 Still one of my all time favourite posts.
Rincewind Posted 17 August 2012 Posted 17 August 2012 He may have more to fear from a lone nutter who will be doing it for his country and to save the American way of life and freedom of speech. Which is kinda ironic.
Jordan Posted 17 August 2012 Posted 17 August 2012 You make a fair point there, Jordan. Maybe I am being a little hyperbolic about the US's use of extraordinary rendition. I just feel that there are powerful interests high in the US military and corporations who have been burned by Assanges reveals, and they have the power and motive to try to gain revenge in any way that they can...by either discrediting the man, or indeed by grabbing him without charge. And those people probably neither answer to the same laws we do nor to the law of popular opinion. That's fair, too. And I'm not denying powerful people in the U.S. want him to suffer or can make that so. There are other ways to do so (especially less controversial ways, this being an election year) and this is one of them.
Captain... Posted 17 August 2012 Posted 17 August 2012 Perhaps if his accusers are telling the truth, seeing his face all over the world's media day after day motivated them to change their mind about keeping quiet? Not that far fetched is it? Yes, I definitely wait until the accused is famous before I report a crime. There is something dodgy going on, whether it is the more usual slutty ho bags trying to cash in on a famous face, think La Manga if you don't know what I'm on about. Or there is the bigger conspiracy involving US extradition, which is not that unbelievable, they are not going to produce any charges until he is in a position to be picked up. Either way if I was Assange and I had pissed off the people I had done, I would be hiding in the Ecuadorian Embassy.
The Doctor Posted 17 August 2012 Posted 17 August 2012 Or there is the bigger conspiracy involving US extradition, which is not that unbelievable, they are not going to produce any charges until he is in a position to be picked up. That's the most damning thing, the US could end all this by saying they won't seek extradition to (possibly) face the death penalty - Ecuador have been happy to co-operate on the Swedish rape charges. The silence on America's part is deafening.
DANGEROUS TIGER Posted 17 August 2012 Posted 17 August 2012 That's the most damning thing, the US could end all this by saying they won't seek extradition to (possibly) face the death penalty - Ecuador have been happy to co-operate on the Swedish rape charges. The silence on America's part is deafening.
ADK Posted 17 August 2012 Posted 17 August 2012 What annoys me the most is how much this is costing the taxpayer.
Captain... Posted 17 August 2012 Posted 17 August 2012 What annoys me the most is how much this is costing the taxpayer. How much?
Jon the Hat Posted 17 August 2012 Posted 17 August 2012 Disappointed to hear that. It's much more entertaining for others when you lose the plot and use lots of swear words in your putdowns. Stop being so selfish, pull your finger out and come up with something like this: http://www.foxestalk...am#entry2014272 Still one of my all time favourite posts. We need more of that stuff allright. Come back Daggers!
ADK Posted 17 August 2012 Posted 17 August 2012 How much? No idea, but the cost of having police outside the embassy all the time and manning these protests must be running up, a few million perhaps? Of course not huge money in the grand scheme of things but a complete waste of it.
Guest MattP Posted 17 August 2012 Posted 17 August 2012 We need more of that stuff allright. Come back Daggers! Here Here. That was fantastic, he was at his peak then when he kept the insults for people like that rather than anyone who had a different viewpoint.
Webbo Posted 17 August 2012 Posted 17 August 2012 I'm pretty certain no European country would be allowed to extradite anyone, anywhere to face the death penalty. Anyway so what if he is jailed for hacking? It is a crime.
Guest MattP Posted 17 August 2012 Posted 17 August 2012 I'm pretty certain no European country would be allowed to extradite anyone, anywhere to face the death penalty. Anyway so what if he is jailed for hacking? It is a crime. I was going to mention that, like most things though with a lot of leftists if it's a crime committed that is damaging or embarrassing to the big bad US of A a blind side will turned to the law.
ADK Posted 17 August 2012 Posted 17 August 2012 Surely being left or right has little to do with it. It's a case about freedom of speech and civil liberty. Its hardly as though the left is typically associated with promoting individual freedoms.
The Doctor Posted 17 August 2012 Posted 17 August 2012 In fairness, the USA's track record on honesty and complying with human rights isn't great, people are right to be suspicious of them.
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