sdb Posted 23 July 2011 Posted 23 July 2011 I've got a fiver on it being those pesky muslims again. It was a white man with extreme right wing beliefs. Sound familiar? RIP to all the innocent lives lost.
shen Posted 23 July 2011 Posted 23 July 2011 Reports from eye-witnesses on and around the island say there were gunshots fired in two different places simultaneously, so there might well have been a second person involved in this.
FoxyPV Posted 23 July 2011 Posted 23 July 2011 Sigh I know. Early last night it had been reported that the only man they knew of (so far) was of nordic descent. There's talk of the attack being like that of Tim McVeigh in the US.
Guest MattP Posted 23 July 2011 Posted 23 July 2011 It was a white man with extreme right wing beliefs. Sound familiar? RIP to all the innocent lives lost. What I can;t understand is why an anti-muslim "far right" campaigner would attack a load of kids from a slightly left of centre party.....doesnt really add up. If the beliefs were as bad as what we are hearing surely he would be a David Copeland style bomber rather than the targets yesterday.
davieG Posted 23 July 2011 Posted 23 July 2011 BBC Anders Behring Breivik, the 32-year-old suspect in Friday's attacks in Norway, held right-wing views, say police. Police chief Sveinung Sponheim said his internet postings "suggest that he has some political traits directed toward the right, and anti-Muslim views". "But whether that was a motivation for the actual act remains to be seen," he told Norwegian broadcaster NRK. Little is currently known about him apart from what has appeared on social networking sites such as Facebook and Twitter - and these entries appear to have been set up just days ago. On the Facebook page attributed to him, he describes himself as a Christian and a conservative. The Facebook page is no longer available but it also listed interests such as body-building and freemasonry. The gunman was described by witnesses who saw him on Utoeya island as tall and blond - and dressed in a police uniform. The image of him posted on Facebook depict a blond, blue-eyed man. The Norwegian newspaper Verdens Gang quoted a friend as saying that the suspect turned to right-wing extremism when in his late 20s. The paper also said that he participated in online forums expressing strong nationalistic views. He had no military background except for ordinary national service and no criminal record, it seems. Bomb ingredientMr Breivik is believed to have grown up in Oslo, and studied at the Oslo School of Management, which offers degrees and post-graduate courses. He later appears to have moved out of the city and established Breivik Geofarm, a company Norwegian media is describing as a farming sole proprietorship. The company was set up to cultivate vegetables, melons, roots and tubers, Norway's TV2 says, and speculation in local media is rife that through such a link he may have had access to fertiliser, an ingredient used in bomb-making. A Twitter account attributed to the suspect has also emerged but it only has one post, which is a quote from philosopher John Stuart Mill: "One person with a belief is equal to the force of 100,000 who have only interests." As with his Facebook page, the tweet was posted on 17 July. It reveals very little about the man except an interest in libertarianism and a clear belief in the power of the individual.
Zingari Posted 23 July 2011 Posted 23 July 2011 I hope people don't go resorting to violence and retribution against all nazis just because or the actions of small minority of extremists .
MC Prussian Posted 23 July 2011 Author Posted 23 July 2011 According to latest news, a second man has been arrested in connection to the attacks. Several eye witnesses have given similar accounts. He was said to have been spotted just outside the hotel in which Norwegian prime minister Stoltenberg was residing at the time. http://en.trend.az/regions/world/europe/1909486.html
shen Posted 23 July 2011 Posted 23 July 2011 What I can;t understand is why an anti-muslim "far right" campaigner would attack a load of kids from a slightly left of centre party.....doesnt really add up. If the beliefs were as bad as what we are hearing surely he would be a David Copeland style bomber rather than the targets yesterday. A motive could've been to 'punish' those not sharing his belief Breivik was himself active in Fremskrittspartiet, the far right wing party, and the current prime minister Stoltenberg is a member of Arbeiderpartiet, the explosions and shootings could have been motivated by hate towards the political left and their views.
Guest MattP Posted 23 July 2011 Posted 23 July 2011 A motive could've been to 'punish' those not sharing his belief Breivik was himself active in Fremskrittspartiet, the far right wing party, and the current prime minister Stoltenberg is a member of Arbeiderpartiet, the explosions and shootings could have been motivated by hate towards the political left and their views. Bit harsh though to kill 80 odd kids for that, from what I gather as well the youth camp is about politics and although set up by the Labour party isnt actually any sort of political rally, more a gathering to learn about politics. I didnt even realise there was a far right party in Norway, just thought it was down to the main 3 with the Progress and Conservatives challenging the Labour party. This is extremely strange, whatever any grievances what on earth makes somebody resort to actions like this?, terrible.
Zingari Posted 23 July 2011 Posted 23 July 2011 A motive could've been to 'punish' those not sharing his belief Breivik was himself active in Fremskrittspartiet, the far right wing party, and the current prime minister Stoltenberg is a member of Arbeiderpartiet, the explosions and shootings could have been motivated by hate towards the political left and their views. That's the way i'm starting to see it In a perverse sort of logic he may be blaming the groups who he perceives as having allowed a situation to evolve .in the same way sometimes we have a tendency to blame the police and social services for seeming to allow crimes , rather than the criminals themselves maybe this is not a good analogy but it's difficult to explain
purpleronnie Posted 23 July 2011 Posted 23 July 2011 Bit harsh though to kill 80 odd kids for that, from what I gather as well the youth camp is about politics and although set up by the Labour party isnt actually any sort of political rally, more a gathering to learn about politics. I didnt even realise there was a far right party in Norway, just thought it was down to the main 3 with the Progress and Conservatives challenging the Labour party. This is extremely strange, whatever any grievances what on earth makes somebody resort to actions like this?, terrible.
shen Posted 23 July 2011 Posted 23 July 2011 Bit harsh though to kill 80 odd kids for that, from what I gather as well the youth camp is about politics and although set up by the Labour party isnt actually any sort of political rally, more a gathering to learn about politics. I didnt even realise there was a far right party in Norway, just thought it was down to the main 3 with the Progress and Conservatives challenging the Labour party. This is extremely strange, whatever any grievances what on earth makes somebody resort to actions like this?, terrible. Of course it's harsh, even one is harsh. But maybe he blames the political left of being the cause of his problems, I don't know. And the Progress party is what I refer to as the far right. That's probably overdoing it, but the fact all the other parties have refused to form a coalition with them tells me their ideologies are viewed as irreconcilable with everyone else's.
davieG Posted 23 July 2011 Posted 23 July 2011 That's the way i'm starting to see it In a perverse sort of logic he may be blaming the groups who he perceives as having allowed a situation to evolve .in the same way sometimes we have a tendency to blame the police and social services for seeming to allow crimes , rather than the criminals themselves maybe this is not a good analogy but it's difficult to explain The Norwegian police and authorities are already being heavily criticised in some quarters for not foreseeing or acting quick enough - how anyone could foresee such an horrendous situation and plan for it I've no idea especially when they have had very little or no previous incidents. It would appear to me that the Oslo bombings were intended to distract attention, resources and focus away from the shooting.
AoWW Posted 23 July 2011 Posted 23 July 2011 Dreadful news - was really upset to hear this when I came home last night... I'd not heard anything about if earlier in the day. RIP to all those who've lost their lives and sympathy to their family and friends... I can't begin to imagine how horrific it must be to find out you've lost a loved one in this way. I've not yet seen much news coverage but it seems to me a small island such as this is relatively inaccessible and that maybe made the job of the police and other emergency services even more difficult. Are there roads onto the island too, or is it only accessible from the water? Surely the fact that the gunman was dressed in police clothing made it even more awkward. As davieG has said, I wouldn't be surprised if the bombings in Oslo were designed to draw attention and resources away from other parts of the country. How far is the island from the city?
Guest MattP Posted 23 July 2011 Posted 23 July 2011 Of course it's harsh, even one is harsh. But maybe he blames the political left of being the cause of his problems, I don't know. And the Progress party is what I refer to as the far right. That's probably overdoing it, but the fact all the other parties have refused to form a coalition with them tells me their ideologies are viewed as irreconcilable with everyone else's. To refer to the progress party as far right is ridiculous to be honest, its conservative liberalism, something thats probably closest to my own political ideology. A poll conducted by Utrop in August 2009 showed that 10% (14% if the respondents answering "Don't know" are removed) of immigrants in Norway would vote for the Progress Party, only beaten by the Labour Party, when asked.[130] More specifically, this constituted 9% of both African and Eastern European immigrants, 22% of Western European immigrants and 3% of Asian immigrants.[131] Numerous people of immigrant background are also increasingly active in the party, most notably Iranian-Norwegian Deputy Member of Parliament Mazyar Keshvari and Indian-Norwegian youth politician Himanshu Gulati. Not something I would equate with "far-right". They do actually work with the Labour party at muncipal level.
shen Posted 23 July 2011 Posted 23 July 2011 To refer to the progress party as far right is ridiculous to be honest, its conservative liberalism, something thats probably closest to my own political ideology. Fair enough, I went a bit overboard saying far right. They are however prone to include far-right supporters. But call it what you will tbh, a party that is shunted by all others because of it's views, particularly on immigration, tells it's own story (and yes, I know they work together at municipal level). That said, I don't want to deviate away from the subject and turn this thread into a political debate.
Guest MattP Posted 23 July 2011 Posted 23 July 2011 Fair enough, I went a bit overboard saying far right. They are however prone to include far-right supporters. But call it what you will tbh, a party that is shunted by all others because of it's views, particularly on immigration, tells it's own story (and yes, I know they work together at municipal level). That said, I don't want to deviate away from the subject and turn this thread into a political debate. Totally agree, although the most frustrating thing about England I've noticed having done a lot of travelling is as soon as immigration in politics is talked about its usually 5 mins before someones mentions "the far right" whereas anywhere else they seem to be able to debate it properly. But lets get back on the thread. Another person arrested now, I expect to see more, I just do not see this as a one person jon, surely it would be impossible to be able to set all of this up and carry it on your own.
Zingari Posted 23 July 2011 Posted 23 July 2011 Just days after Secretary of State; Jonas Gahr Støre said: “Palestinians can govern themselves”, a blast in Oslo has occurred. There has been no claim of responsibility so far so the strongest link to the middle east or any international tension that is related to Norway recently is the Government signing an agreement which enables Palestine to send an ambassador to Norway. hmm , Israel / Mossad may be holding a grudge ? Empty where are you ?
FoxesAreBlue Posted 23 July 2011 Posted 23 July 2011 Unbelieveablely right now is the first iv heard of this and it's makes me shake with anger that somebody or a group can commit such an act
AjcW Posted 23 July 2011 Posted 23 July 2011 Just to those earlier posters who jumped to the Muslim fundamentalist conclusions... He was actually a Christian Fundamentalist... So yes... Religion strikes again, where would we be without it ey? Oh that's right, happier, safer and a hole lot more sane!! Incredible the stranglehold a few books has on the world! ***whole!
zubi Posted 23 July 2011 Posted 23 July 2011 Just to those earlier posters who jumped to the Muslim fundamentalist conclusions... He was actually a Christian Fundamentalist... So yes... Religion strikes again, where would we be without it ey? Oh that's right, happier, safer and a hole lot more sane!! Incredible the stranglehold a few books has on the world! ***whole! Sorry but you can't indict a religion due to the actions of some of its followers who aren't even following the teachings of their scriptures. Religion didn't teach him to go on a killing spree, he may have chose to go on a killing spree because of his own personel vendetta. You don't point the finger at the billions of people who believe in the same religion he did and say you share the blame.
Austin Posted 23 July 2011 Posted 23 July 2011 On another football forum I post on theres a couple of lads from Norway that felt the shockwave .. 1 of them posted this picture of the guy doing the killing. Didn't want to post the picture, quite disturbing. Truly horrific, we live in such a strange world .. Thoughts with everyone effected by this tragic incident.
AjcW Posted 23 July 2011 Posted 23 July 2011 Sorry but you can't indict a religion due to the actions of some of its followers who aren't even following the teachings of their scriptures. Religion didn't teach him to go on a killing spree, he may have chose to go on a killing spree because of his own personel vendetta. You don't point the finger at the billions of people who believe in the same religion he did and say you share the blame. Hence why I said fundamentalists???
anotherharboroughfox Posted 23 July 2011 Posted 23 July 2011 On another football forum I post on theres a couple of lads from Norway that felt the shockwave .. 1 of them posted this picture of the guy doing the killing. Didn't want to post the picture, quite disturbing. Truly horrific, we live in such a strange world .. Thoughts with everyone effected by this tragic incident. That picture just sums up the sickness of it all.
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