Oslo City Centre Explosion and Island Murders

[Narborough_fox]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2018479/Norway-massacre-Marcel-Gleffe-saved-20-teenagers-Anders-Behring-Breivik.html#ixzz1T8UyCEdC

German tourist Marcel Gleffe has been hailed a hero after reports emerged detailing how he rescued 20 teenagers from the horror shooting in Norway.

Gleffe was preparing to visit the island with his family when Anders Behring Breivik opened fire of the youngsters at the campsite.

Gleffe told German magazine Der Spiegel that many of the teenagers initially feared he was Breivik's accomplace: 'They were everywhere in the water. I threw lifejackets with a rope attached to them and pulled them aboard, they were all screaming and crying.

'Some of them were shouting, 'Keep away... Don't come any closer'. Others were even asking, "Are you going to kill us?".'

Gleffe revealed how he used his initiative after recognising the tragedy that was unfolding within miles of where he and his family were staying.

He said: 'I just did it on instinct. You don't get scared in a situation like that, you just do what it takes.

'I know the difference between fireworks and gunfire. I knew what it was about, and that it wasn't just nonsense.

'I recognised the sound of the automatic weapon straight away.

'Then I saw two youths who swam away from the island. Then smoke grenades came and several bursts from the automatic weapon.

'I saw through the binoculars that there were more people in the water.'

Gleffe returned to the water no fewer than four times before he was instructed to stop by the police amidst fears for his safety.

'I took between four and five trips. After that the police asked me to stop.

'The youths were good. They supported each other and were organised, and said who needed first aid and who had to be taken into the boat first.

'They were happy to get help, but they were unsure whom they could trust,' he told the local Dagbladet newspaper.

A minute's silence was held in Norway at noon today in honour of those killed in Friday's bombing and massacre.

More than 90 people were wounded in the attacks, and others remain missing at the scenes of each atrocity, together the worst attack on Norwegian soil since the Second World War.

Breivik appeared before a court today and had requested an open hearing for his first appearance so that he can explain his atrocities to the public. But he was denied the request.

Yesterday thousands gathered at Oslo cathedral for a memorial service dedicated to those killed and injured in the attacks.

Throughout the 90-minute service most of those assembled outside the cathedral stood with their heads bowed in silence.

[Guest MattP]

wow what a man he is

[Bugg]

Yesterday a main member of the Jewish Division of the EDL justified the actions of Breivik on their facebook page after somebody posted an article that the youths who had died had banners saying "boycott israel"

My link

you'll have to scroll down a bit, but it makes me feel sick that he could say that people deserved to die because of that.

[Trav Le Bleu]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2018479/Norway-massacre-Marcel-Gleffe-saved-20-teenagers-Anders-Behring-Breivik.html#ixzz1T8UyCEdC

German tourist Marcel Gleffe has been hailed a hero after reports emerged detailing how he rescued 20 teenagers from the horror shooting in Norway.

Gleffe was preparing to visit the island with his family when Anders Behring Breivik opened fire of the youngsters at the campsite.

Gleffe told German magazine Der Spiegel that many of the teenagers initially feared he was Breivik's accomplace: 'They were everywhere in the water. I threw lifejackets with a rope attached to them and pulled them aboard, they were all screaming and crying.

'Some of them were shouting, 'Keep away... Don't come any closer'. Others were even asking, "Are you going to kill us?".'

Gleffe revealed how he used his initiative after recognising the tragedy that was unfolding within miles of where he and his family were staying.

He said: 'I just did it on instinct. You don't get scared in a situation like that, you just do what it takes.

'I know the difference between fireworks and gunfire. I knew what it was about, and that it wasn't just nonsense.

'I recognised the sound of the automatic weapon straight away.

'Then I saw two youths who swam away from the island. Then smoke grenades came and several bursts from the automatic weapon.

'I saw through the binoculars that there were more people in the water.'

Gleffe returned to the water no fewer than four times before he was instructed to stop by the police amidst fears for his safety.

'I took between four and five trips. After that the police asked me to stop.

'The youths were good. They supported each other and were organised, and said who needed first aid and who had to be taken into the boat first.

'They were happy to get help, but they were unsure whom they could trust,' he told the local Dagbladet newspaper.

A minute's silence was held in Norway at noon today in honour of those killed in Friday's bombing and massacre.

More than 90 people were wounded in the attacks, and others remain missing at the scenes of each atrocity, together the worst attack on Norwegian soil since the Second World War.

Breivik appeared before a court today and had requested an open hearing for his first appearance so that he can explain his atrocities to the public. But he was denied the request.

Yesterday thousands gathered at Oslo cathedral for a memorial service dedicated to those killed and injured in the attacks.

Throughout the 90-minute service most of those assembled outside the cathedral stood with their heads bowed in silence.

Wow - on two counts.

Wow - great guy, a hero and Wow - Daily Mail praising a German. (It was 60 years ago... time to move on.)

Breivik claims link to EDL. EDL deny all knowledge.

Perhaps he was too moderate for them?

[shen]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2018479/Norway-massacre-Marcel-Gleffe-saved-20-teenagers-Anders-Behring-Breivik.html#ixzz1T8UyCEdC

German tourist Marcel Gleffe has been hailed a hero after reports emerged detailing how he rescued 20 teenagers from the horror shooting in Norway.

Gleffe was preparing to visit the island with his family when Anders Behring Breivik opened fire of the youngsters at the campsite.

Gleffe told German magazine Der Spiegel that many of the teenagers initially feared he was Breivik's accomplace: 'They were everywhere in the water. I threw lifejackets with a rope attached to them and pulled them aboard, they were all screaming and crying.

'Some of them were shouting, 'Keep away... Don't come any closer'. Others were even asking, "Are you going to kill us?".'

Gleffe revealed how he used his initiative after recognising the tragedy that was unfolding within miles of where he and his family were staying.

He said: 'I just did it on instinct. You don't get scared in a situation like that, you just do what it takes.

'I know the difference between fireworks and gunfire. I knew what it was about, and that it wasn't just nonsense.

'I recognised the sound of the automatic weapon straight away.

'Then I saw two youths who swam away from the island. Then smoke grenades came and several bursts from the automatic weapon.

'I saw through the binoculars that there were more people in the water.'

Gleffe returned to the water no fewer than four times before he was instructed to stop by the police amidst fears for his safety.

'I took between four and five trips. After that the police asked me to stop.

'The youths were good. They supported each other and were organised, and said who needed first aid and who had to be taken into the boat first.

'They were happy to get help, but they were unsure whom they could trust,' he told the local Dagbladet newspaper.

A minute's silence was held in Norway at noon today in honour of those killed in Friday's bombing and massacre.

More than 90 people were wounded in the attacks, and others remain missing at the scenes of each atrocity, together the worst attack on Norwegian soil since the Second World War.

Breivik appeared before a court today and had requested an open hearing for his first appearance so that he can explain his atrocities to the public. But he was denied the request.

Yesterday thousands gathered at Oslo cathedral for a memorial service dedicated to those killed and injured in the attacks.

Throughout the 90-minute service most of those assembled outside the cathedral stood with their heads bowed in silence.

One of many true heroes that day. The selflessness showed by people surrounding the island, putting their own lives on the line to save these young people and facing the horror is inspiring and consoling in a way.

[Guest Bilo]

Perhaps he was too moderate for them?

It does raise a valid question in my opinion. Should the authorities be taking the EDL a lot more seriously than before if the far-right and extremist links within the organisation are proved?

It is very easy to dismiss the EDL as a shower of knuckle-draggers, but there must be some brains within their ranks somewhere as they have grown massively in a short space and are able to organise marches and flash demos almost at the drop of a hat. Clearly in terms of recruitment and organisation, the EDL is doing something right and has become much, much bigger than the extremist Islamist groups they were set up to counter. If these people become more radicalised Islamophobes than they already are, it really is frightening to think what the potential result could be in light of the massacre in Norway. Potentially it would take only a handful of hardcore far-right activists to wreak havoc here too.

EDIT: On a happier note, the German chap who helped avert an even larger death toll is nothing short of a genuine hero and deserves a medal the size of a fvcking manhole cover.

[Daggers]

Indeed. Some of the fundamental teachings of Jesus were to love your neighbour as yourself and do to others as you would want them to do to you.

Yeh right.

Do I really need to recount the time I tried to mutually masturbate seven women in Basildon's Asda?

[Guest MattP]

It does raise a valid question in my opinion. Should the authorities be taking the EDL a lot more seriously than before if the far-right and extremist links within the organisation are proved?

It is very easy to dismiss the EDL as a shower of knuckle-draggers, but there must be some brains within their ranks somewhere as they have grown massively in a short space and are able to organise marches and flash demos almost at the drop of a hat. Clearly in terms of recruitment and organisation, the EDL is doing something right and has become much, much bigger than the extremist Islamist groups they were set up to counter. If these people become more radicalised Islamophobes than they already are, it really is frightening to think what the potential result could be in light of the massacre in Norway. Potentially it would take only a handful of hardcore far-right activists to wreak havoc here too.

EDIT: On a happier note, the German chap who helped avert an even larger death toll is nothing short of a genuine hero and deserves a medal the size of a fvcking manhole cover.

Nah I doubt it, the EDL is nothing, they have a big following but that seems to have just came from football hooligans etc etc There really isnt much intelligence thre either from the people I have heard speak in public.

I wouldnt even describe them as far-right, I saw them in Manchester and some of them they were waving gay pride and Israel flags, thats very different from the far right I am used to.

Fact of life is some people will take political beliefs to an extreme and this guy has, he isnt the first, he wont be the last. It's the way of the world and no country can really prepare for that sort of thing if someone wants to do it. Even more so when they have the brains of this guy.

[shen]

Only just found out that the police bizarrely decreased the death toll on Utøya estimate to 68, because the situation was "confusing and they might have counted some bodies twice" (!!)

[Guest MattP]

Only just found out that the police bizarrely decreased the death toll on Utøya estimate to 68, because the situation was "confusing and they might have counted some bodies twice" (!!)

wtf??

That's very very bizarre.

[Guest Bilo]

Nah I doubt it, the EDL is nothing, they have a big following but that seems to have just came from football hooligans etc etc There really isnt much intelligence thre either from the people I have heard speak in public.

I wouldnt even describe them as far-right, I saw them in Manchester and some of them they were waving gay pride and Israel flags, thats very different from the far right I am used to.

Fact of life is some people will take political beliefs to an extreme and this guy has, he isnt the first, he wont be the last. It's the way of the world and no country can really prepare for that sort of thing if someone wants to do it. Even more so when they have the brains of this guy.

The problem is what happens with the more extreme members of the EDL. The EDL is nasty and undoubtedly right-wing, but isn't in the same league as for example the RVF or C18. This fact may mean that impressionable members of the EDL may become more extreme in their nationalism, become disillusioned with sharing a movement with Jews and gay people and turn to more militaristic movements. There is already some evidence to suggest individual EDL members have publicly expressed willingness to take up arms and as the events in Norway, it only takes one or more determined people to bring about chaos.

In terms of EDL members some, in fact I would argue most, are politically ignorant within its ranks and just 'want Brittun to be back Brittish' without knowing what that actually means, but it's where some of them progress afterwards that is the problem. David Copeland for example was involved with the (certainly racist and unpleasant but entirely legal and non-violent) BNP at one point, decided they weren't radical enough for him and became ever more extreme with this ultimately culminating in the nail bombings. Similar things have happened with hardline Muslims joining fringe groups such as Al-Muhajiroun and ultimately winding up in the Pakistani mountains learning how to make car bombs.

Personally I think the EDL and the far-right in general should be watched at least as closely as Muslamic fundamentaloids.

[Itsthejoeker]

Anyone see the Paxman interview tonight?

[Daggers]

It's all too easy to dismiss the EDL and their viewpoints, it's what successive governments have done after all.

I still maintain that you discount their views at your peril. If my experience at work is anything to go by there is a hardening of support for them in the most unlikeliest of places.

[Zingari]

It's all too easy to dismiss the EDL and their viewpoints, it's what successive governments have done after all.

I still maintain that you discount their views at your peril. If my experience at work is anything to go by there is a hardening of support for them in the most unlikeliest of places.

this probably applies to all left , right and religious extremism though , but possibly we have to take or try to keep our freedoms with all the pitfalls

[Bellend Sebastian]

I'm used to Glen Beck being a f***** c***, but surely this is a new low for the talking bag of pus:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jul/26/glenn-beck-norwegian-dead-hitler

I hadn't appreciated that the Murdoch owned Fox News had dropped the twat earlier this year, thank f*** for that

[MikeyT]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/8662603/Norway-massacre-Anders-Breivik-took-drugs-to-make-himself-strong-before-shooting.html

Norway massacre: Anders Breivik took drugs to make himself 'strong' before shooting

Geir Lippestad Mr Lippestad said it was “too early” to say if his client was mad, but added: “The whole case has indicated that he is insane.”

He said his client had taken drugs before going on the rampage “to be strong, efficient and awake” and was “sorry that he had to do this but it was necessary because he is in a war”.

Asked to describe Breivik, Mr Lippestad said he is “a very cold person” but “I can’t describe him because he is not like anyone else”.

The lawyer aslo confirmed that Breivik did make visits to Britain as he planned his “war” against Islam, and he said Breivik had referred to other “cells” outside Norway that were ready to follow his example.

“He says there are two cells in Norway and others from the Western world,” Mr Lippestad said at a press conference in Oslo.

Related Articles

Scotland Yard officers are trying to unravel Breivik’s links to British extremists after it emerged he had extensive contact with members of the right-wing English Defence League.

Mr Lippestad said his client had told him “he travelled to Britain” but did not say when or where.

Members of the EDL have said Breivik came to London in March 2010 when the far-right Dutch politician, Geert Wilders, visited the House of Lords. He is also reported to have been on an EDL march in Newcastle.

Mr Lippestad said his client had pleaded not guilty to murder when he appeared in court yesterday because: “He believes that he is in a war and he believes that when you are in a war you can do things like that without pleading guilty.

“He looks upon himself as a warrior who has started a war and he takes some pride in that.

“He expects this is the start of a war that will last for 60 years. He thinks the rest of the world don’t understand his point of view but in 60 years’ time we will all understand him.”

Mr Lippestad, who is a member of the Labour Party, the target of Breivik’s attacks last Friday, said his client had been “surprised” that he was not stopped sooner as he bombed Oslo and gunned down students on the island of Utoya.

Police have come in for heavy criticism for taking 90 minutes to reach the island, where Breivik shot dead 68 people.

“He was a little surprised that he succeeded,” said the solicitor. “He was expecting to be stopped earlier by the police or someone else on the actual day.”

Mr Lippestad said he did not know why Breivik had chosen him as his legal representative, and was shocked when he got a call from police on Saturday morning.

“I thought about it for 10-12 hours,” he said. “But it’s important in a democracy to hold democracy high and the legal system is an important part of a democracy.”

[Guest Bilo]

I'm used to Glen Beck being a f***** c***, but surely this is a new low for the talking bag of pus:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jul/26/glenn-beck-norwegian-dead-hitler

I hadn't appreciated that the Murdoch owned Fox News had dropped the twat earlier this year, thank f*** for that

What an absolute arsehole.

Pretty sure he'd be crying like a bitch had this happened in the US and anything other than mawkish global grief was offered.

When you dropped by Murdoch, you know you're a massive cvnt.

[FoxyPV]

It's all too easy to dismiss the EDL and their viewpoints, it's what successive governments have done after all.

I still maintain that you discount their views at your peril. If my experience at work is anything to go by there is a hardening of support for them in the most unlikeliest of places.

You could address them by rounding up all their members and shooting them

[MC Prussian]

I'm used to Glen Beck being a f***** c***, but surely this is a new low for the talking bag of pus:

http://www.guardian....ian-dead-hitler

I hadn't appreciated that the Murdoch owned Fox News had dropped the twat earlier this year, thank f*** for that

He American? He conservative? He no clue. Typical.

Tea Party is all about big words, but little content.

Would be better off by covering the massive US debt crisis and the kindergarten politics between the Republicans and the Democrats.

[Austin]

A german newspaper article says: "Even in their deepest sorrow the norwegians don't get hysterical. They resist the hate. It is amazing to see how politicians and the whole country reacts. They are sad to the deepest thread of their souls. They cry in dignity. But nobody swears to take revenge. Instead they want even more humanity and democracy. That is one of the most remarkable strengths of that little country."

:appl:

[Dr The Singh]

A german newspaper article says: "Even in their deepest sorrow the norwegians don't get hysterical. They resist the hate. It is amazing to see how politicians and the whole country reacts. They are sad to the deepest thread of their souls. They cry in dignity. But nobody swears to take revenge. Instead they want even more humanity and democracy. That is one of the most remarkable strengths of that little country."

:appl:

Not quite, attacks on muslims have all already began:

Mehtab Afsar, secretary-general of the Islamic Council of Norway, was leading a delegation abroad when he started receiving phone calls from Oslo from frightened members of the Muslim community.

"We heard some Muslims had already been beaten up in Oslo," he said, "and women who were scared phoned me asking for help."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14316670

Leopards do not change there spots very easily!!!! Europe has become very anti immigration and inparticular very anti brown!!

[Bryn]

Leopards do not change there spots very easily!!!! Europe has become very anti immigration and inparticular very anti brown!!

That's a very dangerous and sweeping statement, given the amount of liberty immigrants of all races can enjoy in modern, egalitarian, European states. The extremism of minority anti-Islam groups is deplorable, but no more deplorable than Islamic extremism itself, and both must be eradicated. If normal people in those countries wish to politically move for reduced immigration via the backing of democratic, centre-right parties who are regaining control across Europe, and who compete in fair elections, then that is their right.

[MC Prussian]

Not quite, attacks on muslims have all already began:

Mehtab Afsar, secretary-general of the Islamic Council of Norway, was leading a delegation abroad when he started receiving phone calls from Oslo from frightened members of the Muslim community.

"We heard some Muslims had already been beaten up in Oslo," he said, "and women who were scared phoned me asking for help."

http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-14316670

Leopards do not change there spots very easily!!!! Europe has become very anti immigration and inparticular very anti brown!!

Dear Singh, as much as I don't condone violence, no matter whom the target, I would take this report with a pinch of salt.

It reads very much as hearsay ("We heard some Muslims...").

[Dr The Singh]

Dear Singh, as much as I don't condone violence, no matter whom the target, I would take this report with a pinch of salt.

It reads very much as hearsay ("We heard some Muslims...").

Very true the report and the women that called maybe unduly scared, but i don't believe people change very easily and from my personal experience of europe things are getting worse, due to alot of reasons, the biggest being econimical ones!!

[MC Prussian]

Very true the report and the women that called maybe unduly scared, but i don't believe people change very easily and from my personal experience of europe things are getting worse, due to alot of reasons, the biggest being econimical ones!!

That theory I would support - it's the general "fear" that makes things much more dangerous.

Too many people get carried away thinking there's some kind of threat out there, when in fact, the vast majority (in Europe) are being misled by the media and (like in Greece) the politicians.

But in real life, when you look at it, we've never had it so good.

The money question is big these days, banks still making huge profits, the regular employee not getting a raise at all (on the contrary), redundancies, immigration (as part of the cyclical mass wanderings), violence - some of those are psychological influences (what you'd call a general "feel"), others real.

Also, manual labour is getting less and less important, skills and knowledge are being lost.

But I'm getting a bit carried away.

In the days following the events in Norway, we've had a guy shooting up his entire furnishings (with the police getting called up because they thought he was attacking people) and a 21-year old stabbing her father to death and injuring her mother.

Acts like Breiviks can trigger a certain character to "finalize" the deal, to follow-up on their own plans, to mimic what he did.