Tottenham and other disturbances / riots

[Guest lcfc80]

If you had a grasp of the relevance of a psychological study group I'd see your point.

Yeah fvck those fancy book learnings.

you learn more about people by mixing with alsorts of people of alsorts of ages and backgrounds and I do mate. whether you want to believe it or not i know so many different people of all different social backgrounds etc from full time cocaine dealers right up to solicitors and city workers, thats just how I am and mix with all sorts of people. you learn more about people from being with them and spending time with them than reading things in a book.

So i see you still cant tell me how many people are in the study then?

[21st Century Fox]

you learn more about people by mixing with alsorts of people of alsorts of ages and backgrounds and I do mate. whether you want to believe it or not i know so many different people of all different social backgrounds etc from full time cocaine dealers right up to solicitors and city workers, thats just how I am and mix with all sorts of people. you learn more about people from being with them and spending time with them than reading things in a book.

So i see you still cant tell me how many people are in the study then?

Ok I can see how pointless discussing this with you actually is.

Hopefully you'll carry out more important studies in your day to day life and use that knowledge wisely.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

no mate, life

So your challenging a psychological study, that you admit to knowing little about and its reaches yet your own views are taken from one perspective?

Yes, you are entitled to your views but I sense they are far too simplistic and fail to take into account a range of views, facts and learnings over time.

[Houdini Logic]

Believe or not teachers and students would probably be entitled to benefits somewhere along the line.

How does putting these guys into prison change the mindset of these people? They're already pretty moraless and so I can predict most will view prison with the same relaxed attitude. And so they've been in, come out, remain in the same social circles with the same lack of morales - chances are, they'll be happy todo this again?

Add to that, the fact that these prison sentences are only going to be for 6 months to 2 years tops - hardly seems worth it?

I appreciate my views will be a somewhat Guardian reading liberal minority and that a lot of people will want extreme put them to the sword punishments akin the Daily Mail (I imagine) but I can't see how that view would make us any better than the mob in some respects?

I'm not convinced they will view prison with a relaxed attitude and I think that's where you're making a mistake. There's a lot of evidence that these people represent a wide range of society and I think half of the people looting were opportunists and didn't fully think of the consequences.

I think if you get these people in the streets sweeping up and painting walls, will they be put off doing this next time?

I think you should use this opportunity to get these people off the streets in the short term and also as a deterrent for people who aren't hardened criminals but fance a quick buck next time.

You say that putting them in prison will not change their mindset, but I assure you it will a lot more than community service

[21st Century Fox]

I'm not convinced they will view prison with a relaxed attitude and I think that's where you're making a mistake. There's a lot of evidence that these people represent a wide range of society and I think half of the people looting were opportunists and didn't fully think of the consequences.

I think if you get these people in the streets sweeping up and painting walls, will they be put off doing this next time?

I think you should use this opportunity to get these people off the streets in the short term and also as a deterrent for people who aren't hardened criminals but fance a quick buck next time.

You say that putting them in prison will not change their mindset, but I assure you it will a lot more than community service

Theres are argument that putting someone whose commited an opportunist crime into prison only instills institutionalised criminality into them, because they're mixing with hardened career crimnals they wouldn't usually have done.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

I'm not convinced they will view prison with a relaxed attitude and I think that's where you're making a mistake. There's a lot of evidence that these people represent a wide range of society and I think half of the people looting were opportunists and didn't fully think of the consequences.

I think if you get these people in the streets sweeping up and painting walls, will they be put off doing this next time?

I think you should use this opportunity to get these people off the streets in the short term and also as a deterrent for people who aren't hardened criminals but fance a quick buck next time.

You say that putting them in prison will not change their mindset, but I assure you it will a lot more than community service

Tagging and community service is not an easy ride - you are free, but you're not, with having to check in and being indoors at certain times (thus taking them off the streets). If they don't comply / get into trouble again then prison can come in then.

A balanced approach should be taken here, as in some cases Community Service should not be viewed as an option, but if the majority were opportune offenders prison is surely not the main answer as much as what our first instincts tell us?

[Houdini Logic]

Theres are argument that putting someone whose commited an opportunist crime into prison only instills institutionalised criminality into them, because they're mixing with hardened career crimnals they wouldn't usually have done.

Thug Life

[Guest lcfc80]

Ok I can see how pointless discussing this with you actually is.

Hopefully you'll carry out more important studies in your day to day life and use that knowledge wisely.

that is priceless, a psycological study may give you a rough idea of how people MAY tick but unless you give me numbers how can you say it gives you a breakdown of how everybody thinks. would you agree that 10, 20 ,100 people cant really give you an idea of how everybody thinks and acts in certain situations? Im guessing you are swerving the numbers fact because i probably work with more people closely who have been done for antisocial behaviour than this study is studying

go out, meet and engage with different people and you'll learn no end about people

[21st Century Fox]

that is priceless, a psycological study may give you a rough idea of how people MAY tick but unless you give me numbers how can you say it gives you a breakdown of how everybody thinks. would you agree that 10, 20 ,100 people cant really give you an idea of how everybody thinks and acts in certain situations? Im guessing you are swerving the numbers fact because i probably work with more people closely who have been done for antisocial behaviour than this study is studying

go out, meet and engage with different people and you'll learn no end about people

So if I told you its 1000 people what would you do with that information? Do you have a thorough enough understanding of whats needed in a psychological study group to garner relevant results?

I can assure you the study wouldn't have got through the door of Havard without relevance.

Why am I arguing with someone whose source of knowledge is "life"!! Fvck me!

[Guest lcfc80]

So your challenging a psychological study, that you admit to knowing little about and its reaches yet your own views are taken from one perspective?

Yes, you are entitled to your views but I sense they are far too simplistic and fail to take into account a range of views, facts and learnings over time.

the trouble the country is in the mess it is with peoples attitudes is because people have tried too hard to look for things that aren't there and make something more indepth than it is. ie.people have done these riots for the buzz and excitement, like the example i used earlier about the manc lads. they were saying they could go out and buy the thing they had looted but they did it because they could. life is a lot more simple than a few "educated" elite would like you to believe

[21st Century Fox]

the trouble the country is in the mess it is with peoples attitudes is because people have tried too hard to look for things that aren't there and make something more indepth than it is. ie.people have done these riots for the buzz and excitement, like the example i used earlier about the manc lads. they were saying they could go out and buy the thing they had looted but they did it because they could. life is a lot more simple than a few "educated" elite would like you to believe

Ok and what made them like that? What makes them get a buzz out of it?

[Zingari]

Ok and what made them like that? What makes them get a buzz out of it?

you may as well ask what makes people do extreme sports or gamble with their lives doing crazy stunts

[Guest MattP]

First person in court is a 31 year old full time teacher from Soutwell.

You can't make this up.

[21st Century Fox]

you may as well ask what makes people do extreme sports or gamble with their lives doing crazy stunts

Anti-social behaviour would seem to stem differently than thrill seeking. Its instilled by parents or early childhood experiences.

[Guest lcfc80]

So if I told you its 1000 people what would you do with that information? Do you have a thorough enough understanding of whats needed in a psychological study group to garner relevant results?

I can assure you the study wouldn't have got through the door of Havard without relevance.

Why am I arguing with someone whose source of knowledge is "life"!! Fvck me!

FFS just done a long answer to this and the site crashed (or was it my connection?)

short answer, I'd ask lots about the percentages of age groups, social backgrounds, ethnic backgrounds personal wealth, wealth of the area they live in, just for starters to see whats what

[Guest lcfc80]

What makes them get a buzz out of it?

Addrenalin

[Zingari]

Anti-social behaviour would seem to stem differently than thrill seeking. Its instilled by parents or early childhood experiences.

you asked why they wanted or needed a "buzz" ,

i'm not trying to compare anti social behaviour with thrill seeking , but if all that is wanted by these people is a "buzz" then maybe they could both serve the same purpose , that's all .

[21st Century Fox]

you asked why they wanted or needed a "buzz" ,

i'm not trying to compare anti social behaviour with thrill seeking , but if all that is wanted by these people is a "buzz" then maybe they could both serve the same purpose , that's all .

It was originally aimmed at lcfc80 who I waas attempting to explain to about a psychological study into anti-social behaviour, but I get your point.

[One Arm Babba]

if they want a buzz, then get them enrolled and send them off to Afghanistan to fight for something. They are all cowards like Hyenas, hunt in packs but as soon as one gets a hiding, they will run off like the cowards they are.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

the trouble the country is in the mess it is with peoples attitudes is because people have tried too hard to look for things that aren't there and make something more indepth than it is. ie.people have done these riots for the buzz and excitement, like the example i used earlier about the manc lads. they were saying they could go out and buy the thing they had looted but they did it because they could. life is a lot more simple than a few "educated" elite would like you to believe

If life was that simple, this country would not be in the mess it finds itself in. I for one like a simplistic approach where one can be used but this is certainly not an issue that can be treated that way.

For one, their are no doubt countless unexplainable reasons people did what they did. Some knew what they were doing was wrong but got a buzz from it, others got caught up in it, some may have felt they were putting two fingers up to the establishment, some may have been doing it because crime is their job so to speak. who knows, but there is not a one fits all approach here.

I would also suggest there were different trends between the riots in London and Manchester, which appeared more organised to the ones elsewhere, which were essentially copy cat riots.

There is no doubt a problem with the growing social divides and attitudes, not only from the lower classes but from the middle and upper class that look down on people with such distain. There is no longer the belief of caring for your fellow man or look after your neighbours it is turned into a 'what's in it for me' society.

If you have a simplistic method to change how society is going I, others and David Cameron would love to hear it, but you also

need to consider that clever people than me and you have tried and failed.

Unfortunately the populist view is very often the short sighted quick fix view and does not take into account all the facts, yet is

the option taken by weaker political leaders to carry favour with voters. The truly great leaders know when to pander and when to take a hard line stance so maybe this will be the making of Cameron's leadership?

[21st Century Fox]

Addrenalin

Sweet that mades way more sense than carrying out a study into it then!

I can't be bothered to go into a the fine details of the study for you because its pointless, any academic study doesn't seem to be able to trump your "life" knowledge so I'd just be pissing in the wind. I'm more than happy to have a go at explaining it to anyone who can actually see the value in it.

[Guest lcfc80]

if they want a buzz, then get them enrolled and send them off to Afghanistan to fight for something. They are all cowards like Hyenas, hunt in packs but as soon as one gets a hiding, they will run off like the cowards they are.

our army would be a laughing stock, but I get your point about them, cowards

[davieG]

The cynic in me says nothing will change, yes there might a few well publicised actions but come next year it'll be the same old same old!

They'll be the usual reactions we get to any event on the back of 'this must never be allowed to happen again' then something controversial will happen as a result causing an over reaction and things will swing back the other way. Society has backed itself into a corner afraid to do anything because they'll always be someone who 'suffers' (often in a very loose way) as a result and their will be a price to pay. So we do nothing.

For example after this round of rioting people might look at this and say 'about time too' or 'well done now get those rubber bullets out' but it's not that long ago this would be roundly and universally condemn and I suspect if it happened in the future would get a similar condemnation response.

[One Arm Babba]

If life was that simple, this country would not be in the mess it finds itself in. I for one like a simplistic approach where one can be used but this is certainly not an issue that can be treated that way.

For one, their are no doubt countless unexplainable reasons people did what they did. Some knew what they were doing was wrong but got a buzz from it, others got caught up in it, some may have felt they were putting two fingers up to the establishment, some may have been doing it because crime is their job so to speak. who knows, but there is not a one fits all approach here.

I would also suggest there were different trends between the riots in London and Manchester, which appeared more organised to the ones elsewhere, which were essentially copy cat riots.

There is no doubt a problem with the growing social divides and attitudes, not only from the lower classes but from the middle and upper class that look down on people with such distain. There is no longer the belief of caring for your fellow man or look after your neighbours it is turned into a 'what's in it for me' society.

If you have a simplistic method to change how society is going I, others and David Cameron would love to hear it, but you also

need to consider that clever people than me and you have tried and failed.

Unfortunately the populist view is very often the short sighted quick fix view and does not take into account all the facts, yet is

the option taken by weaker political leaders to carry favour with voters. The truly great leaders know when to pander and when to take a hard line stance so maybe this will be the making of Cameron's leadership?

I think that is a misinformed statement Mr Hammond. I have often helped elderly neighbours with anything they need and i'm sure like others on here give a lot and do a lot for charity. I don't do any of this to get something back.

It's pretty hard to not have disdain for these youths. If i walk to the local shop near me (in Ireland), I will pass a gang of youths most evenings. The age of these kids is 14-17. they all have staffordshire terriers and would stare at anyone to provoke a reaction. I'm 6ft5in and weigh 16stone.... It doesn't bother them. I just laugh at them when they say shit, but, others would be hugely intimidated. How do we get the equilibrium back so that responsible members of society would smile at these kids? its impossible.

[davieG]

In the interests of balance