Tottenham and other disturbances / riots

[Daggers]

UPDATE 07:50 HrsLondon fire fighter pulled off her motorcycle, punched in the face and threatened with a gun in Clapham last night on her way in. London Fire Brigade recieved 2,200 '999′ calls, 15 times their usual demand.

'Police have become so sensitive to the issue of race that it is impairing their ability to do the job' argues the Daily Telegraph.

06:30 Hrs – Somewhere in England

Where we are, they burned down Mothercare. I thought that was ironic.

The arson damage is quite unlike anything I have ever seen, even in Belfast in the bad old days. It is important that this is not under-reported, the scenes of damage are quite extraordinary.

I have spoken to many law-abiding members of the public. Feelings are running very high against local youths. People are displaying hatred and frustration, flavoured by a fair amount of racism. I don't think there is an appetite for funding any further assistance to the part of the community which caused this.

The overwhelming feeling is that major force should be used now, before things get completely out of hand. People are worried they will die in their houses. The arson threat is everywhere. There is a lot of frustration about lack of police attendance until we tell them we are from Ruralshire, then they are just silent as the implications of this sink in.

We have heard about the armoured vehicles in Clapham, which cleared the street in minutes. We want to carry out a baton charge at a line of angry youths who are setting fire to a huge wheelie bin in the doorway of a post office, but we are told to 'hold the line'.

At the briefing, many of my officers wanted cast-iron guarantees from Silver Command that no individual officers would be suspended and prosecuted if we use force and a rioter became seriously injured.

This was not forthcoming. There are at least 12 County forces here now,'Remember Tomlinson' was being whispered everywhere at the FCP.

Many people are becoming very angry that we refuse to move our lines and baton charge the rioters. I have run around like a blue arsed fly trying to understand why we are being ordered to stay static; the only explanation I can find is that Gold Command are concerned about the sensitivity of the target group.

The scenes in front of us give a physical proof of everything we have ever said on this Blog about lack of consequences, weak criminal justice systems, nonsensical diversity policies which give 'victim status' to the mob and silly, target obsessed politically driven ACPO leadership. I never thought I'd see the results of all that actually burned on to the streets in front of me.

My final comment for the moment at 06:48 Hrs is that whatever you have seen on the TV, the reality is much, much worse. Front line police officers have been desperately trying to highlight the inherent weakness of our policing system for years. As I have said many times: Police State? Don't make me laugh.

Huge respect to the Fire Service and Ambulance Service. We also have over 300 bodies in custody; no chance of that number going to prison, we don't have the space any more. Malthouse wants them in front of the Courts as soon as possible. So they can be bailed straight away no doubt….

Inspector Gadget's Blog

[eye666]

So where are the government going to get the money for this from?

Repossessing houses/cars/TVs/Playstations/drug money from these reprobates and selling them on/using the cash. That and doing away from the woefully flawed benefits system where there are billions of pounds wasted every year.

[Daggers]

Out of interest - the first one up before the beak this morning was a graduate.

Further wrong-uns have included the middle-aged, the employed and very few of those supposedly excluded by society.

[dave the caveman]

I'd quite like to see the introduction of a really brutal military style boot camp for these kids. There's no point in just throwing them in jail. Community service is better but too soft. Get them on Full Metal Jacket and teach them a thing or two about life, pain and the value of teamwork.

[Father Ted]

Just seen on EMT, the scumbags smashed and then set fire to an Age Concern minibus in Leicester.

Absolute cnuts, who would destroy their own city, absolute wankers, kick them all out. If they're going to do that to OUR city they shouldn't be allowed to live in OUR city.

[21st Century Fox]

According to the BBC theres enough prison spaces...

Danny Shaw Home affairs correspondent, BBC News As of last Friday there were 2,275 unused prison places across England and Wales. The prison population was 84,884. The useable operational capacity was 87,159. That is a significant amount of spare capacity, particularly when you consider that in recent years there have been more prisoners than prison places resulting in the use of police cells in 2006 and 2007 and early release measures between 2007 and 2010. As well as the spare places already available, the prison population normally falls in August because there are fewer court sittings and therefore fewer offenders remanded and sentenced.

[Guest lcfc80]

some of the ultra PC correct comments have made me feel sick on this thread. Blaming it all on the State, the Tories and where they live. Everybody has choices in life especially in this Country compared to other no matter what colour, race, or religion you are. My mum is from Stocking Farm which many will know is a shit hole and by some of the comments on here I would be within my rights to have kicked off in town last night because of my families poor upbringing. Instead of rioting though my whole family used hard work to better oursleves, not smashing things up hoping people will make excuses for us and give us everything for nothing. FFS im starting my own business, my cousins do well for themselves and my uncle is the MD of a huge company, but surely this is not possible because we are from a complete shit hole? If you want to get on in life you can, wherever you live and plenty of people prove this everyday. And alot of the excuses are pretty irrelevent when you look at many of the people arrested, I believe one was even a teacher.

The simple reason people have done this is purely for the buzz, there is massive excitement for these people playing games with the old bill all night with the bonus of maybe getting something free. Thats all it is.

[Guest lcfc80]

Out of interest - the first one up before the beak this morning was a graduate.

Further wrong-uns have included the middle-aged, the employed and very few of those supposedly excluded by society.

which is exactly why I cant understand people bending over backwards trying to make excuse after excuse for them

[21st Century Fox]

some of the ultra PC correct comments have made me feel sick on this thread. Blaming it all on the State, the Tories and where they live. Everybody has choices in life especially in this Country compared to other no matter what colour, race, or religion you are. My mum is from Stocking Farm which many will know is a shit hole and by some of the comments on here I would be within my rights to have kicked off in town last night because of my families poor upbringing. Instead of rioting though my whole family used hard work to better oursleves, not smashing things up hoping people will make excuses for us and give us everything for nothing. FFS im starting my own business, my cousins do well for themselves and my uncle is the MD of a huge company, but surely this is not possible because we are from a complete shit hole? If you want to get on in life you can, wherever you live and plenty of people prove this everyday. And alot of the excuses are pretty irrelevent when you look at many of the people arrested, I believe one was even a teacher.

The simple reason people have done this is purely for the buzz, there is massive excitement for these people playing games with the old bill all night with the bonus of maybe getting something free. Thats all it is.

Whose saying its their right??!!

People have just been rational and stated posible causes. Its no sodding conincidence that the majority of these people are from run down areas. Every action has a reaction, this is the reaction, we just need to work out the original action and sort it out.

[Daggers]

Anyone want anything - I'm just taking the kids into Kettering to go to Wilkinsons and Poundland.

[Guest lcfc80]

Whose saying its their right??!!

People have just been rational and stated posible causes. Its no sodding conincidence that the majority of these people are from run down areas. Every action has a reaction, this is the reaction, we just need to work out the original action and sort it out.

they've done it for the buzz, not because they feel down trodden by the political elite. Go and listen to the interviews with the Manc lads that were all doing it instead of Ken Livingstone, you might get a better idea. They said they simply did it "because they could". If thes people are so oor and run down how do they have designer clothing and blackberry phones?

the whole generation is shot it because the respect has gone because instead of being treated like criminals they are treated as victims. If it was such a 'social poverty' issue poor people from all over the gaff would be playing up, not just some scumbags, and thats what they are

[The Year Of The Fox]

My hooligan conment was referring to the lack of speed and heavy handedness the police used when the trouble first started. Not our justice system

[Darkon84]

Anyone want anything - I'm just taking the kids into Kettering to go to Wilkinsons and Poundland.

Crisps, lots and lots of crisps

[Jon the Hat]

Whose saying its their right??!!

People have just been rational and stated posible causes. Its no sodding conincidence that the majority of these people are from run down areas. Every action has a reaction, this is the reaction, we just need to work out the original action and sort it out.

The action is seeing people getting away with it on the telly, the realisation they will probably get away with it themselves, and the lack of any expected consequences. The reaction as we have seen is opportunistic theft and violence by people with **** all morals.

[21st Century Fox]

So what gives them that mentality?

These people didn't move to these areas and because they're criminally inclined, they're born and bred there. You can blame their parents but what gave there parents that same mentality, its gone on for generations. We talk about billions of waste in the benefit system (which I agree is an issue) but what about the billions of pounds we lose in tax from tax dodging businesses that are allowed to operate, trade and profit in our country and not pay a penny back. Close those loop holes, gain back that money and plough it into schools in those areas so that this doesn't get repeated again. If everyone was given a fair crack of the whip from the begining education wise, this kind of shit wouldn't happen.

[Guest lcfc80]

My hooligan conment was referring to the lack of speed and heavy handedness the police used when the trouble first started. Not our justice system

i've seen this mentioned numerous times elsewhere and without tryinng to turn it into a black/white issue manny have said if a mob of white football lads played up like the mob of mainly black lads at the start of the Hackney riot on monday the police would have steamed in cracking heads a lot quicker. I find it hard to pick any holes in those comments to be honest

[Houdini Logic]

Anyone want anything - I'm just taking the kids into Kettering to go to Wilkinsons and Poundland.

Can you get me the fit girl with red hair?

[Houdini Logic]

So where are the government going to get the money for this from?

You don't think it's a worthwhile investment?

Less so than some of the things the government spend money on?

[DJ Barry Hammond]

You don't think it's a worthwhile investment?

Less so than some of the things the government spend money on?

It's a difficult question, because you couldn't catogorically state where the money would come from. But you could say the money spent building a prison could instead be spent on:

Teachers (the none rioting kind!)

Extra police

Community projects

Communal areas / sports facilities

Libraries

Hospitals / nurses

It could be said that giving these low lives 4 Walls and 3 meals a day is a waste of tax payers money.

[Guest lcfc80]

So what gives them that mentality?

These people didn't move to these areas and because they're criminally inclined, they're born and bred there. You can blame their parents but what gave there parents that same mentality, its gone on for generations. We talk about billions of waste in the benefit system (which I agree is an issue) but what about the billions of pounds we lose in tax from tax dodging businesses that are allowed to operate, trade and profit in our country and not pay a penny back. Close those loop holes, gain back that money and plough it into schools in those areas so that this doesn't get repeated again. If everyone was given a fair crack of the whip from the begining education wise, this kind of shit wouldn't happen.

that is laughable im affraid. How much money do you think the last lot poored into these areas and did we see any improvements whatsoever? did we balls. just face facts, some people just want to play up, some people dont want to get on, some people couldnt give a shit. As I said if it was so bad and a massive injustice for these areas then the whole estates would have been out. You need to remember that you keep mentioning that these poor areas are where they came from, you ever thought that they only went into town and played up because they are already there? On top of my head I can think of 5 or 6 different gangs round my way that probably would have enjoyed doing last night stuff and probably would of got the same numbers if they were based next to town, but theyarent all going to get the bus for 6-7 miles to go and trash somewhere. The point? you have people capable of doing this all over the place not just in those poor areas and some of the arrest prove this.

Just look at football hooligans, some have top jobs and in the week they have middle class lives but at the football they cant leave the buzz alone.

[Babylon]

I think it can get over complicated with the causes. Perhaps I'm about to simplify it a bit too much...

I grew up on a fairly average estate in Leicestershire, going to average schools, with average local facilities and average working class parents.

There were people I grew up though with who would most definitely get involved in this kind of thing. They had exactly the same opportunities I did in life though, and had access to everything I did (more in some cases). So why would they be smashing up shops and looting, and I wouldn't?

Is it a coincidence that all the people I think would have got involved had weak parents?

The type that never asked where their kids were going or checked what they were up to. The ones that would say "my child wouldn't do that" if someone told them about their trouble making, rather than finding out the truth and punishing them. The ones who let their children get away with murder in the home meaning they had no moral compass when they were out of it.

It's not about the haves and have nots. You could go to some of the poorest areas on the planet and they would have more respect for other humans than some of these people.

This is a parenting issue, if I someone does not respect and to some extent fear the wrath of their parents as a child, they certainly won't have that with any other authority figure in life.

[Trav Le Bleu]

Pointless cunts.

For the record, I think Pointless is the best TV quiz on at the moment.

[Houdini Logic]

It's a difficult question, because you couldn't catogorically state where the money would come from. But you could say the money spent building a prison could instead be spent on:

Teachers (the none rioting kind!)

Extra police

Community projects

Communal areas / sports facilities

Libraries

Hospitals / nurses

It could be said that giving these low lives 4 Walls and 3 meals a day is a waste of tax payers money.

I said less so than things the government are spending money on...

[DJ Barry Hammond]

i've seen this mentioned numerous times elsewhere and without tryinng to turn it into a black/white issue manny have said if a mob of white football lads played up like the mob of mainly black lads at the start of the Hackney riot on monday the police would have steamed in cracking heads a lot quicker. I find it hard to pick any holes in those comments to be honest

That is opinion and has little fact behind it - and tends to show some form of prejudice and stereotyping. It also points to the big mindset problem here that people are always comparing themselves to what others have and are therefore constantly unhappy.

The danger with views like this is that it could escalate what is currently mindless vandalism on a large scale to race riots.

[Trav Le Bleu]

I think it can get over complicated with the causes. Perhaps I'm about to simplify it a bit too much...

I grew up on a fairly average estate in Leicestershire, going to average schools, with average local facilities and average working class parents.

There were people I grew up though with who would most definitely get involved in this kind of thing. They had exactly the same opportunities I did in life though, and had access to everything I did (more in some cases). So why would they be smashing up shops and looting, and I wouldn't?

Is it a coincidence that all the people I think would have got involved had weak parents?

The type that never asked where their kids were going or checked what they were up to. The ones that would say "my child wouldn't do that" if someone told them about their trouble making, rather than finding out the truth and punishing them. The ones who let their children get away with murder in the home meaning they had no moral compass when they were out of it.

It's not about the haves and have nots. You could go to some of the poorest areas on the planet and they would have more respect for other humans than some of these people.

This is a parenting issue, if I someone does not respect and to some extent fear the wrath of their parents as a child, they certainly won't have that with any other authority figure in life.

I have exactly the same experience. It's pretty much down to values. Not all poor people feel that is a justification to steal. In fact there are plenty of poor people who are less likely to steal than some rich people might be.

Being poor is neither an excuse or a cause.