Langston Posted 11 January 2014 Posted 11 January 2014 This is not just because I hate Sheffield Wednesday, but they arn't that much of a big club. I'll admit they are one of the bigger in our division but most people on here bang on like they are the biggest club outside the top flight. They have a decent history, good fanbase but haven't won anything in years. And when was the last time they were in the Premier League? 2000? They've been shite for years, even visiting the third tier more than once... People say 'oh Forest haven't won anything in years' etc, well it works with other clubs as well. Same with Newcastle as well. I know it's all opinion but how are they above Manchester City and Spurs? Newcastle haven't won anything in 60 years. The points you made about Derby (who you cited as one of the bigger clubs): -Rich history -Consistent attendances -Reasonable Fanbase -Don't travel in great numbers Points that should be made about Sheffield Wednesday (who you think are a "smaller club"): -Rich history -Consistent attendances (including nearly 40k for a couple of third tier fixtures?!) -Huge fanbase -Travel in vast numbers Is it just me that can't quite decipher the logic you've use to determine that Derby are "bigger"? *Ah, just remembered, you're the kid that spoozes over photos of Clough, aren't you? Factor in the fact that you've posted that you "hate Sheffield Wednesday" and you'll have to forgive me if I take your points with a pinch of salt!
Langston Posted 11 January 2014 Posted 11 January 2014 Have Forest ever been in the top-flight in technicolour? It's glorious lads, I'll tell you that.
tartanowl Posted 11 January 2014 Posted 11 January 2014 Leeds are probably the only club in our division that you could definitely say are the biggest. You could make a fair argument about us, Forest, Derby and Wednesday being bigger than each other. It's hard to define who is bigger because everybody wants to factor in recent history which is hard to measure against historical success. I hate these debates but we have historically won more trophies than Leeds and every single club in Yorkshire. We averaged a bigger home attendance than Leeds last season despite Leeds being a bigger city, despite us being crap, and despite them being a one club city. Our ground is bigger and infinitely better. I would argue that on those grounds all day long we are the most successful club in Yorkshire and I hope we smash the bastards this afternoon. TO
Fox92 Posted 11 January 2014 Posted 11 January 2014 The points you made about Derby (who you cited as one of the bigger clubs): -Rich history -Consistent attendances -Reasonable Fanbase -Don't travel in great numbers Points that should be made about Sheffield Wednesday (who you think are a "smaller club"): -Rich history -Consistent attendances (including nearly 40k for a couple of third tier fixtures?!) -Huge fanbase -Travel in vast numbers Is it just me that can't quite decipher the logic you've use to determine that Derby are "bigger"? *Ah, just remembered, you're the kid that spoozes over photos of Clough, aren't you? Factor in the fact that you've posted that you "hate Sheffield Wednesday" and you'll have to forgive me if I take your points with a pinch of salt! Derby have consistent attendances. They might not travel in huge numbers anymore, however, their home attendances are very good (they get around 30k each game). You do make a good point, but I would point out what divisions we are talking about. Wednesday were relegation from the top flight in 2000 (?) and have visited the third tier several times (three?)... Why don't people call Huddersfield a big club? They've won just as much as well, but is it because they've been in the third tier for so long? To be honest, I have no logic either. I do hate Sheffield Wednesday and I think that's the thing, I admit it. Take no offence tartonowl, you know I dislike Wednesday. I don't want them to get relegated, I love playing Wednesday and my trip to Hillsborough, but the fact I live just outside of Sheffield does influence me. I can't stand the love in they get on here. Yeah I love Brian Clough. Of course I do. I'm a football fan! I love all the greats of the game, but that has nothing to do with this thread at all.... Take my posts however you like, don't read them if you don't want to, and if you don't then don't reply, I couldn't care less really.
Langston Posted 11 January 2014 Posted 11 January 2014 Derby have consistent attendances. They might not travel in huge numbers anymore, however, their home attendances are very good (they get around 30k each game). You do make a good point, but I would point out what divisions we are talking about. Wednesday were relegation from the top flight in 2000 (?) and have visited the third tier several times (three?)... Why don't people call Huddersfield a big club? Whilst I've already conceded that Derby's home support is consistently good (I've never said otherwise), they don't get 30,000 people through the turnstiles. Their average attendance this season is shy of 25k. And people don't call Huddersfield a 'big club' for exactly the reasons you list to support your argument for Derby - the fanbase isn't broad enough, I doubt they travel in considerable numbers, and they haven't been in the top tier in forty-plus years either. Wednesday have four more major trophies in the proverbial cabinet than Huddersfield to boot, there's no comparison, and saying Huddersifeld have won 'just as much' is plain absurdity on your part.
ScouseFox Posted 11 January 2014 Posted 11 January 2014 hahaha is this still going on. Let Forest, Derby an whoever else wants to do so wank themselves silly about being a bigger club, who cares, they might be bigger but we're better. We've got a better team. A better squad. A better manager. A better league position. A better set of fans. A better owner. Better facilities. We've even got a better forum. And a better kit. We're just so much better than all these HUGE teams. I typed better so much in that post I started to doubt if it was even a word.
Fox92 Posted 11 January 2014 Posted 11 January 2014 hahaha is this still going on. Let Forest, Derby an whoever else wants to do so wank themselves silly about being a bigger club, who cares, they might be bigger but we're better. We've got a better team. A better squad. A better manager. A better league position. A better set of fans. A better owner. Better facilities. We've even got a better forum. And a better kit. We're just so much better than all these HUGE teams. I typed better so much in that post I started to doubt if it was even a word. This is correct. A chunk of this argument should be what's happening in the present. This argument comes up all the time, but it's all about opinion again. I only replied because someone replied to my initial post the other day.
Samilktray Posted 11 January 2014 Posted 11 January 2014 We definetly don't have a better kit though.
Kitchandro Posted 11 January 2014 Posted 11 January 2014 Derby have consistent attendances. They might not travel in huge numbers anymore, however, their home attendances are very good (they get around 30k each game). You do make a good point, but I would point out what divisions we are talking about. Wednesday were relegation from the top flight in 2000 (?) and have visited the third tier several times (three?)... Why don't people call Huddersfield a big club? They've won just as much as well, but is it because they've been in the third tier for so long? To be honest, I have no logic either. I do hate Sheffield Wednesday and I think that's the thing, I admit it. Take no offence tartonowl, you know I dislike Wednesday. I don't want them to get relegated, I love playing Wednesday and my trip to Hillsborough, but the fact I live just outside of Sheffield does influence me. I can't stand the love in they get on here. Yeah I love Brian Clough. Of course I do. I'm a football fan! I love all the greats of the game, but that has nothing to do with this thread at all.... Take my posts however you like, don't read them if you don't want to, and if you don't then don't reply, I couldn't care less really. errm People call Wednesday a big club simply because their fanbase proves it. A big club is not about your team or managers, or honours in the mists of time, it's about consistently having a lot of fans that follow it. People confuse being successful with being a big club. I don't really get why it's this huge debate. Anyone can be successful in the short term if they get lucky (even more so befre the Premier League era) but the one constant is the fans, the essence of the club.
Corky Posted 11 January 2014 Posted 11 January 2014 Some seriously cringeworthy stuff on here guys. Those stating nonsense about Forest were only good because we were 'lucky' enough to stumble across a good manager - could you not make that suggestion about countless other clubs? United without Fergie would still be behind Liverpool? Your also rans. Leeds and Forest are clearly the biggest teams in the division closely followed by Sheff Wed and Derby. I would throw Leicester in the same hat as Ipswich and Middlesborough. Never won anything of note or achieved anything. 25k in a promotion year proves absolutely nothing. You've had one world-class manager, since he left you've been an also ran in the Championship (and relegation specialists from the Premier League). You've spent more years in the last 18 in the third tier than the first. You won two FA Cups before Clough and bugger all since. You had a genius of a manager who took you to unparalleled heights, Man United have trophies galore before Ferguson got there, they'd won leagues and European Cups before Ferguson got there. Clough is regarded so highly because he took a relatively unfashionable club to such feats, not a continuation of a glorious past. Just a shame he didn't turn up at Filbert St, we might've been in your position to boast about the trophies. But we aren't, we've won relatively little over our time, but we've coped fine. Anyway, we've won the Derby Cup Final 8 times in 9 games, so knows your facts, love.
Samilktray Posted 11 January 2014 Posted 11 January 2014 Fox92 is on par with Lamby as far as being 1 of the worst away fans who come on this forum.
Fox92 Posted 11 January 2014 Posted 11 January 2014 errm People call Wednesday a big club simply because their fanbase proves it. A big club is not about your team or managers, or honours in the mists of time, it's about consistently having a lot of fans that follow it. People confuse being successful with being a big club. I don't really get why it's this huge debate. Anyone can be successful in the short term if they get lucky (even more so befre the Premier League era) but the one constant is the fans, the essence of the club. First off, don't start with 'errrm'. It's fvcking annoying. I always thought fanbase was one aspect. FC United of Manchester have a great fanbase, they manage to take 2000+ to away games, but are they a bigger club than the likes of Yeovil?
Fox92 Posted 11 January 2014 Posted 11 January 2014 Fox92 is on par with Lamby as far as being 1 of the worst away fans who come on this forum. And yet I've been a STH at Leicester since 02/03 and followed the club all over the Country. Not bad going.
Pride_Of_The_Midlands Posted 11 January 2014 Posted 11 January 2014 errm People call Wednesday a big club simply because their fanbase proves it. A big club is not about your team or managers, or honours in the mists of time, it's about consistently having a lot of fans that follow it. People confuse being successful with being a big club. I don't really get why it's this huge debate. Anyone can be successful in the short term if they get lucky (even more so befre the Premier League era) but the one constant is the fans, the essence of the club. This. Big trophy cabinet = Successful club Big fanbase = Big club Just compare Blackburn Rovers and West Ham United and tell me which is the bigger club? The answer is obviously West Ham United despite Blackburn Rovers being the more successful club.
Fox92 Posted 11 January 2014 Posted 11 January 2014 I hate the term "lucky"... No such thing as luck in this World, and there is no such thing as luck in football.
Langston Posted 11 January 2014 Posted 11 January 2014 I hate the term "lucky"... No such thing as luck in this World, and there is no such thing as luck in football. Are you on crack? So this (for example) isn't bad luck from and England perspective? I don't want to appear like I'm jumping on your points but come on, man.
Red Dawn Posted 11 January 2014 Posted 11 January 2014 Derby have consistent attendances. They might not travel in huge numbers anymore, however, their home attendances are very good (they get around 30k each game). You do make a good point, but I would point out what divisions we are talking about. Wednesday were relegation from the top flight in 2000 (?) and have visited the third tier several times (three?)... Why don't people call Huddersfield a big club? They've won just as much as well, but is it because they've been in the third tier for so long? To be honest, I have no logic either. I do hate Sheffield Wednesday and I think that's the thing, I admit it. Take no offence tartonowl, you know I dislike Wednesday. I don't want them to get relegated, I love playing Wednesday and my trip to Hillsborough, but the fact I live just outside of Sheffield does influence me. I can't stand the love in they get on here. Yeah I love Brian Clough. Of course I do. I'm a football fan! I love all the greats of the game, but that has nothing to do with this thread at all.... Take my posts however you like, don't read them if you don't want to, and if you don't then don't reply, I couldn't care less really. errm People call Wednesday a big club simply because their fanbase proves it. A big club is not about your team or managers, or honours in the mists of time, it's about consistently having a lot of fans that follow it. People confuse being successful with being a big club. I don't really get why it's this huge debate. Anyone can be successful in the short term if they get lucky (even more so befre the Premier League era) but the one constant is the fans, the essence of the club. What an utterly terrible post. If they get 'lucky'. Paaaaahahahaha! So what team has won anything without being 'lucky'? We were champions of Europe twice in two years, id like to suggest other factors than 'luck' might have been in play.
Fox92 Posted 11 January 2014 Posted 11 January 2014 Hello again. I mean in terms of winning stuff... Kitchandro posted "anyone can be successful in the short term if they get lucky" which is rubbish. I see this term all the time. A team may scrape a victory in a Cup fixture, and you see games where the better team lose (Sheffield United winning at Villa as an example), but overall 'luck' isn't true. Teams have dominated English football over the years, Huddersfield, Liverpool, Forest etc but it's not down to "luck". It's down to genius managers.
Red Dawn Posted 11 January 2014 Posted 11 January 2014 To those suggesting that Leicester are this huge club because of fan base. Didn't we get bigger crowds on average last year?
Stadt Posted 11 January 2014 Posted 11 January 2014 What an utterly terrible post. If they get 'lucky'. Paaaaahahahaha! So what team has won anything without being 'lucky'? We were champions of Europe twice in two years, id like to suggest other factors than 'luck' might have been in play. RedHux manages to not be a nob so why can't you?
Red Dawn Posted 11 January 2014 Posted 11 January 2014 What an utterly terrible post. If they get 'lucky'. Paaaaahahahaha! So what team has won anything without being 'lucky'? We were champions of Europe twice in two years, id like to suggest other factors than 'luck' might have been in play. RedHux manages to not be a nob so why can't you? Meh, look at the replies directed at me and see if I got any non nobhead responses... Beside, he's a nice guy, I apparently am not.
Langston Posted 11 January 2014 Posted 11 January 2014 To those suggesting that Leicester are this huge club because of fan base. Didn't we get bigger crowds on average last year? People have used the term 'big' not 'bigger' - ergo I don't know why you're making the comparison. Also, you'll have to factor in that whilst you were languishing in mid-table playing McLeish's/Billy's scintillating brand of hoofball, simultaneously being a hideously unattractive proposition to television companies, we were on Sky every other week - the Middlesborough at home anomaly significantly drags our average last year and was one of five or six home games we had on the box, a trend which is continuing this season. We can't help it that we play the football that people find so damn attractive, mate.
Red Dawn Posted 11 January 2014 Posted 11 January 2014 It is good, very impressive last night. credit where credit is due.
Langston Posted 11 January 2014 Posted 11 January 2014 Hello again. I mean in terms of winning stuff... Kitchandro posted "anyone can be successful in the short term if they get lucky" which is rubbish. I see this term all the time. A team may scrape a victory in a Cup fixture, and you see games where the better team lose (Sheffield United winning at Villa as an example), but overall 'luck' isn't true. Teams have dominated English football over the years, Huddersfield, Liverpool, Forest etc but it's not down to "luck". It's down to genius managers. Ah, I see - apologies. I do think you have to factor in a certain element of luck but I agree with the sentiment that quality is quality.
ithuriel Posted 11 January 2014 Posted 11 January 2014 I really do not care about other clubs, Leicester are a big club that has rarely lived up to its potential, hopefully the Thai owners can give us the base we need to finally do so, we currently have a good manager and really need to get back into the Prem.
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