accessory Posted 18 December 2011 Posted 18 December 2011 Are we really that deluded to think we are bigger than West Ham? Their attendance was over 34,000 yesterday, compared to Leeds miserly 23,000 in comparison and according to Deloitte football money league they have the 31st largest turnover in the world! http://en.wikipedia....ll_Money_League Gotta be a cheap ticket deal to fill the ground against Barnsley on the back of two defeats.
Kitchandro Posted 19 December 2011 Posted 19 December 2011 Hull and Bristol City, given their respective catchment areas, have arguably been far bigger underachievers than us. I'd hardly say we're underachievers when only four clubs have won more major trophies than us during the Premier League era. They both have significantly smaller fanbases than us though, which is more important when you are talking about the actual club. For the amount of fans we've got there aren't many clubs similar to us who have won so little. The League Cup might technically be a major trophy but lets face it, it's nothing compared to the FA Cup, and it's quite shocking that we've never won it considering how many clubs have. And to look at the bigger picture, 3 trophies in 126 years is quite poor really. Especially when you consider smaller clubs like Derby, Forest and Cov have won the true major trophies, not to mention Wimbledon and others. We did well under MON but tbh I wouldn't say we were punching above our weight as a club, only as a team. Now though, having been 8 years outside the top flight and been down to league 1 in that time, we are underachieving badly. So I'd say we are definitely right up there in terms of underachievement.
Kitchandro Posted 19 December 2011 Posted 19 December 2011 Gotta be a cheap ticket deal to fill the ground against Barnsley on the back of two defeats. Agreed. Though I don't think we're bigger than West Ham.
Kitchandro Posted 19 December 2011 Posted 19 December 2011 I think Liverpool are the biggest club in the league. What makes a club big though? It's the history of the club isn't it? In that case, Liverpool are the most successful in the country. Look at the players they have had, and look at what they have won. They had abit of a knock within the last few seasons, when was the last time they won something? 2005? They were poorly owned as well. They top that table on page 1 - what can't speak, can't lie. Man Utd have more league titles than Liverpool who haven't looked like winning a title for 20 years. The thing with clubs the size of Man U and Liverpool is they are global brands, but you see quite a fe more Man U replicas and fake Man U fans than Liverpool. Their global presence is stronger and in Liverpool's case, if you've been a shadow of your former greatness for a significant period of time it makes your reputation as a big club grow weaker. History is important but recent history should be taken into account. For example, can people seriously say that Forest and Derby are bigger than us now? Fanbase is often the most important thing when talking about this IMO, but since Old Trafford is far bigger than Anfield it's a bit pointless judging it on that unless the smaller one isn't sold out. I would say it goes something like: Man U Liverpool Arsenal Spurs Leeds Villa Everton Chelsea Man City Newcastle West Ham Sunderland Leicester/Southampton Forest Sheff Wed West Brom Norwich Sheff Utd Derby Wolves etc. IMO
Kitchandro Posted 19 December 2011 Posted 19 December 2011 What do we think? Joint 20th? http://www.aboutabal...-football-clubs Points system included, perhaps should add something for away attendance and home support too Top 20 for the lazy ones 1. Liverpool 2. Manchester United 3. Arsenal 4. Aston Villa 5. Everton 6. Tottenham Hotspur 7. Newcastle United 8. Sunderland 9. Chelsea 10. Manchester City 11. Blackburn 12. Sheffield Wednesday 13. Wolves 14. Nottingham Forest 15. WBA 16. Derby 17. Bolton 18= Leeds 18= Sheffield United 20= Burnley 20= Leicester 20= Preston Seriously, is this a joke? We are smaller than Blackburn, Bolton, Forest, Wolves, WBA, Derby, Sheff Utd and Burnley? In what ways? And Preston? Whoever made this needs to bare in mind that winning titles 100 odd years ago is barely relevant at all now. Why not chuck Huddersfield in there as well? Fanbase is arguably the most important factor yet isn't even considered. Very strange.
Charl91 Posted 19 December 2011 Posted 19 December 2011 Seriously, is this a joke? We are smaller than Blackburn, Bolton, Forest, Wolves, WBA, Derby, Sheff Utd and Burnley? In what ways? And Preston? Whoever made this needs to bare in mind that winning titles 100 odd years ago is barely relevant at all now. Why not chuck Huddersfield in there as well? Fanbase is arguably the most important factor yet isn't even considered. Very strange. To be fair, Rovers won the league, which wasn't that long ago
Kitchandro Posted 19 December 2011 Posted 19 December 2011 To be fair, Rovers won the league, which wasn't that long ago I know, I know, but still, it's a fluke in their otherwise rubbish history. Before the 90s they went about 35 years outside the top flight and their fanbase is quite a bit smaller than several clubs they are above. I don't think one season which was clearly an example of money helping them punch way above their weight should overshadow everything else.
Corky Posted 19 December 2011 Posted 19 December 2011 They finished fourth and second in the two years before winning the league, so it wasn't a fluke. They have been sustained for a good while in the Premier League now while we rattle around in the second tier.
Kitchandro Posted 19 December 2011 Posted 19 December 2011 They finished fourth and second in the two years before winning the league, so it wasn't a fluke. They have been sustained for a good while in the Premier League now while we rattle around in the second tier. They were near the top of the Premier League for about 3 or 4 seasons because of money and then dropped like a stone and got relegated. Tht could have happened to a lot of clubs but they got lucky. They are in the Premiership and still get a bit less than we do having been out of the Premier League for 8 years. That is the key thing for me. They had success for a short period and have been better than us for most of the last 15 years, but that doesn't make them a bigger club than us, in fact they aren't even close.
ajthefox Posted 19 December 2011 Posted 19 December 2011 I really don't get why some get so obsessed about this, I mean why does it even matter what some random list says? It's pathetic. Kitchandro your posts just stink of need and desperation, it's really quite cringey.
Bryn Posted 19 December 2011 Posted 19 December 2011 It's ridiculously hard to give these things an exact ranking... it's easier to stratify things a bit, based on multiple factors. You can put Man Utd and Liverpool way up there, then clubs like Arsenal, Spurs, Villa, Chelsea, I guess you'd have to say Man City now too. I think if you were going to put a top 20, you have to look for certain things marking those clubs out. I think you have to take the clubs that have won the top flight and the FA Cup multiple times, and who have tasted European success. Leicester don't tick any of those boxes and that's why we aren't one of the top clubs, our opinion of ourselves is skewed by the O'Neill years. I think our League Cup success, our FA Cup finals and our 2nd division titles see us comfortably near the top of "the best of the rest", so to speak, but I don't think we would be even close to the top 20.
Kitchandro Posted 19 December 2011 Posted 19 December 2011 I really don't get why some get so obsessed about this, I mean why does it even matter what some random list says? It's pathetic. Kitchandro your posts just stink of need and desperation, it's really quite cringey. What's cringey is coming on a thread you have no interest in and lambasting those who have commented on it. Get over yourself. What have I said that isn't true? People trying to make out Blackburn and Bolton are big clubs is just completely off the mark.
Bryn Posted 19 December 2011 Posted 19 December 2011 Won the top flight multiple times Man Utd Liverpool Arsenal Everton Aston Villa Sunderland Chelsea Newcastle Sheffield Wednesday Leeds United Wolverhampton Wanderers Huddersfield Blackburn Preston Spurs Derby Man City Burnley Portsmouth Won the FA Cup multiple times Man Utd Arsenal Spurs Liverpool Vila Newcastle Chelsea Blackburn Rovers Everton West Brom Man City Wolves Bolton Sheffield United Sheffield Wednesday West Ham Preston North End Portsmouth Sunderland Forest Bury Notable European Cup campaigners Man Utd Burnley Spurs Liverpool Leeds Everton Arsenal Derby Forest Villa Chelsea There are more than 20 teams there, I think you probably have to give those teams first dibs. In fact I think there are 21, so knock off Bury and I think that'd be my 20.
Kitchandro Posted 19 December 2011 Posted 19 December 2011 Won the top flight multiple times Man Utd Liverpool Arsenal Everton Aston Villa Sunderland Chelsea Newcastle Sheffield Wednesday Leeds United Wolverhampton Wanderers Huddersfield Blackburn Preston Spurs Derby Man City Burnley Portsmouth Won the FA Cup multiple times Man Utd Arsenal Spurs Liverpool Vila Newcastle Chelsea Blackburn Rovers Everton West Brom Man City Wolves Bolton Sheffield United Sheffield Wednesday West Ham Preston North End Portsmouth Sunderland Forest Bury Notable European Cup campaigners Man Utd Burnley Spurs Liverpool Leeds Everton Arsenal Derby Forest Villa Chelsea There are more than 20 teams there, I think you probably have to give those teams first dibs. In fact I think there are 21, so knock off Bury and I think that'd be my 20. So fanbase has nothing to do with it then? Preston haven't won anything for a very very long time, do people seriously regard them as anything other than another lower league club?
Bryn Posted 19 December 2011 Posted 19 December 2011 So fanbase has nothing to do with it then? Preston haven't won anything for a very very long time, do people seriously regard them as anything other than another lower league club? No, it matters... but they're all variables. I think that's where you have to start, and you modulate from there. I think Leicester's complete absence from that list puts us some way short, is the main point I'm trying to make.
Kitchandro Posted 19 December 2011 Posted 19 December 2011 No, it matters... but they're all variables. I think that's where you have to start, and you modulate from there. I think Leicester's complete absence from that list puts us some way short, is the main point I'm trying to make. I dunno...I'd say fanbase is more important as that's more relative to the actual club. For example Forest won the European Cup twice purely because they were fortunate to stumble upon a great manager. The club itself didn't just naturally evolve into the best team in the country, had Clough come to us instead we probably would have been similarly successful. If a non-league team goes and wins the FA Cup this season are they then bigger than us? If they win it 3 years in a row somehow are they automatically bigger than someone who has won it twice? It's a bit like a business making a great breakthrough and bringing in loads of money from one deal, but over the long term it's a smaller business than the one that gets far more customers on a consistent basis.
FuriousFox46 Posted 19 December 2011 Author Posted 19 December 2011 We are a big club. We attract around 25,000 fans every other week with 2,000 away fans as an average. Even with the countries most successful egg chasing team on our doorstep. We've only once been out of the top two divisions, a season we went back up as champions and we've won 6 second tier titles, 3 league cups and been FA Cup finalists multiple times. We're Top 20.
Charl91 Posted 20 December 2011 Posted 20 December 2011 I guess it depends how you determine a big club. If it's by fan base alone, we're top 20. However, our lack of real success in the premier league I think puts us just outside of it. It all depends on how you're viewing it though, whether you're lookiing at recent achievements or achievements through the teams history, current fan base or fan base over the period of the entire league.
ajthefox Posted 20 December 2011 Posted 20 December 2011 What's cringey is coming on a thread you have no interest in and lambasting those who have commented on it. Get over yourself. What have I said that isn't true? People trying to make out Blackburn and Bolton are big clubs is just completely off the mark. Where did I say anything about this not being interesting? I actually do find this interesting and I'm not on here to make myself feel high and mighty by "lambasting" people at all. What I did say is that I don't get why anyone gets so uppity about it such as yourself. I'm sorry to pick you out and make it somewhat personal because I genuinely try and avoid doing that, but you make such a fuss about it. You make every effort to put anything teams we are supposedly bigger than down and put all your emphasis on our strong points and that is what gets me. If this was a playground discussion with rival fans I can just imagine you jumping up and down shouting "LOOK AT US!! WE'RE BIG WE'RE BIG!!!" If you were a fan of one of these other teams you are saying we're bigger than, I'd bet every quid I had that you'd be laughing at us calling us tinpot or whatever saying the complete and exact opposite of what you are now, and that's not mild, justifiable bias that to an extent is within all of us, it's a great big one that shouts in people's faces.
Swalker Posted 21 December 2011 Posted 21 December 2011 What do we think? Joint 20th? http://www.aboutabal...-football-clubs Points system included, perhaps should add something for away attendance and home support too Top 20 for the lazy ones 1. Liverpool 2. Manchester United 3. Arsenal 4. Aston Villa 5. Everton 6. Tottenham Hotspur 7. Newcastle United 8. Sunderland 9. Chelsea 10. Manchester City 11. Blackburn 12. Sheffield Wednesday 13. Wolves 14. Nottingham Forest 15. WBA 16. Derby 17. Bolton 18= Leeds 18= Sheffield United 20= Burnley 20= Leicester 20= Preston Burnley?? Do I need to say anymore (inbetweeners movie)
Banks Posted 5 January 2014 Posted 5 January 2014 Sorry about bringing up this thread again. Who would be in your list? The 'big' Premier League clubs, Leicester, West Ham, Forest, Derby, Wednesday would all be there.
Fox92 Posted 5 January 2014 Posted 5 January 2014 Sorry about bringing up this thread again. Who would be in your list? The 'big' Premier League clubs, Leicester, West Ham, Forest, Derby, Wednesday would all be there. What list? Who do I think are the biggest teams in our division? Leeds, Nottingham Forest and Derby.
Tom17LCFC Posted 5 January 2014 Posted 5 January 2014 What list? Who do I think are the biggest teams in our division? Leeds, Nottingham Forest and Derby. You'd not have us?
Stadt Posted 5 January 2014 Posted 5 January 2014 Leeds are probably the only club in our division that you could definitely say are the biggest. You could make a fair argument about us, Forest, Derby and Wednesday being bigger than each other. It's hard to define who is bigger because everybody wants to factor in recent history which is hard to measure against historical success.
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