Mill Post Match

[Thracian]

Are you really not coming to any more games with Sven at the helm?

Or was that another 'knee jerk' reaction?

I've already taken that decision in relation to away matches. Our pathetic lack of ambition - starting on day one at Coventry despite the victory - made me rapidly decide it is just not worth the time, effort and expense to watch such negativity.

There's no need for it, as we showed plainly enough in the first half at Forest, but that's the mentality we persist with and the set-up is not much more adventurous at home so why should I torture myself.

We've all referred to various players falling short but in the end you have to ask why the manager is getting so little out of so many. Our persistence in not using Dyer has verged on scandalous. No-one claims the guy is perfect but he does give his level best and he does cause problems in a lot of otherwise solid defences.

Before anything else we need a coaching team who get our basics right. The fountain of potential goals that are corner kicks and free-kicks is rarely more than the faintest trickle at City and it's become a major self-inflicted handicap.

And when all that's done we need to be much more canny. We need to anticipate that opponents will tight mark Kingy or will harrass us quickly. And the way to do that is to have alternatives in the way we attack. But you cannot do that without a balanced team and our coaches should know that.

People laugh at the idea of using Howard up front and if all we do is hack the ball up to him that's fair enough. But Kasper's got a belting punt on him yet we've no-one to take advantage. If Howard is there as an option he has to be dealt with.

If we play Dyer he too has to be dealt with because we have the option of causing danger out wide and those two things serve to make more space in midfield. I shouldn't have to explain this to professional coaches, their getting a badge should acknowledge that they know and understand these things. So why do we get so few marks out of 10 for our preparation?

And not just now but for years.

The least we should require from our pampered players is effort. Yet i was disgusted when I saw Beckford's response to a misplaced Konchesky through ball. Instead of chasing it - and arguably saving it going for a goalkick, he found time to grumble at Konchesky and although he signalled sorry afterwards any chance of saving the ball and the situation were gone.

No, I'm no excusing Konchesky but who the hell is Beckford to grumble at anyone? His own ball control, passing, holding up of the ball and competing for possession has been largely pathetic thus far. He might well be able to forge a partnership with Nugent but not with that attitude because he really isn't good enough to do arrogance and those who are, usually show proper respect to their team-mates at least.

Beckford deserved taking off but Howard or Schlupp could have been available as obvious alternatives and why not? Both give their all in different ways and either might have feasted on Dyer's service.

Another thing that alarmed me was to see Wellens almost panic on the edge of the penalty area in searching a pass to get him out of shooting. Eventually he pushed the ball wide but the chance was gone and I've seen him do it times.

He's just passes the buck when it comes to having a shot and it's no good - we have to get goals from places other than centre-forward but I've little faith in us doing that with the current approach. And six goals in eight of our last nine League games only pays sad testimony to my point.

[Kitchandro]

I've already taken that decision in relation to away matches. Our pathetic lack of ambition - starting on day one at Coventry despite the victory - made me rapidly decide it is just not worth the time, effort and expense to watch such negativity.

There's no need for it, as we showed plainly enough in the first half at Forest, but that's the mentality we persist with and the set-up is not much more adventurous at home so why should I torture myself.

We've all referred to various players falling short but in the end you have to ask why the manager is getting so little out of so many. Our persistence in not using Dyer has verged on scandalous. No-one claims the guy is perfect but he does give his level best and he does cause problems in a lot of otherwise solid defences.

Before anything else we need a coaching team who get our basics right. The fountain of potential goals that are corner kicks and free-kicks is rarely more than the faintest trickle at City and it's become a major self-inflicted handicap.

And when all that's done we need to be much more canny. We need to anticipate that opponents will tight mark Kingy or will harrass us quickly. And the way o do that is to have alternatives in the way we attack. But you cannot do that without a balanced team and our coaches should know that.

People laugh at the idea of using Howard up front and if all we do is hack the ball up to him that's fair enough. But Kasper's got a belting punt on him yet we've no-one to take advantage. If Howard is there as an option he has to be dealt with.

If we play Dyer he too has to be dealt with because we have the option of causing danger out wide and those two things serve to make more space in midfield. I shouldn't have to explain this to professional coaches, their getting a badge should acknowledge that they know and understand these things. So why do we get so few marks out of 10 for our preparation?

And not just now but for years.

The least we should require from our pampered players is effort. Yet i was disgusted when I saw Beckford's response to a misplaced Konshelsky through ball. Instead of chasing it - and arguably saving it going for a goalkick, he found time to grumble at Konshelsky and although he signalled sorry afterwards any chance of saving the ball and the situation were gone.

No, I'm no excusing Konshelsky but who the hell is Beckford to grumble at anyone? His own ball control, passing, holding up of the ball and competing for possession has been largely pathetic thus far. He might well be able to forge a partnership with Nugent but not with that attitude because he really isn't good enough to do arrogance and those who are, usually show proper respect to their team-mates at least.

Beckford deserved taking off but Howard or Schlupp could have been available as obvious alternatives and why not? Both give their all in different ways and either might have feasted on Dyer's service.

Another thing that alarmed me was to see Wellens almost panic on the edge of the penalty area in searching a pass to get him out of shooting. Eventually he pushed the ball wide but the chance was gone and I've seen him do it times.

He's just passes the buck when it comes to having a shot and it's no good - we have to get goals from places other than centre-forward but I've little faith in us doing that with the current approach. And six goals in eight of our last nine League games only pays sad testimony to my point.

Agree on the whole, but why do you keep calling him Konshelsky? Am I missing something?

[Thracian]

Agree on the whole, but why do you keep calling him Konshelsky? Am I missing something?

Nothing intended ... just senility creeping in!

[carterfox90]

ive been going as a season ticket holder for over 25 years yesterday was the very first time ive left early with 10 minutes to go!!!

we were awful & ive been hoping sven would sort this out but looks like he really does not have a clue & if this poor form continues till xmas he must surely go! he came on RL & said the players are tired TIRED??? in october ???? sorry but if they run around enough to be tired but our short passing at a snail pace doesnt make you tired !!

would teams like west ham , cardiff , southampton lose to teams like millwall bristol at home simply no way

dreading next week yes knowing us we might beat them but i doubt it very much!!!

[skinnydipper]

Negatives

- another home loss

- rolled over by another shit side

- useless set pieces. Even on throw ins we allow the opposition easy possession whilst failing to create space on our own throws. Symptomatic of the bigger problem. If we can't do better on delivering corners wtf are the ayers doing all week.

- Beckford. Mardy waste of space. Too much moaning. Prefer Schlupp to be given a run alongside Nugent. Has the potential to be another Akinbiyi.

- Wellens. The limitations of the show pony wee exposed. He constantly fails to perform against grittier opposition.

- Coaching staff. Like bunnies in the headlights. Failure to motivate, particularly when we fall behind.

- Style of play. Plodding , boring, predictable. Too few in midfield willing to take responsibility by trying to take a player on, to put a cross in or thread a ball through. Sideways, sideways, backwards,sideways. Yawn football. Too many times this season I've been really bored watching us play. Personally I want to be entertained more than anything and that means a team of 11 triers willing to give it a go.

Positives

- Nugent. I love his skill and effort. The best striker we've had for a considerable time.

- Kaspar. A player who cares about his performance and who really wants to win. Captain material. Certainly preferable to Wellens when Mills is out.

- St Ledger . Thought he did ok. Scapegoated by some on here unfairly. Given Hendersons height Bamba should have taken him at corners.

- Dyer. Pace, urgency, desire. Played for the shirt.

- Derby win. Shows that we have the potential to be very very good. Shows what a positive approach can bring

[Raj]

Dont mind us losing but atleast show some passion and have a fcuking go!

Too many players on Sat were in the mindset that we already had 3 points in the bag.

We are nowhere near good enough to think like that.

We aint won 2 games on the trot yet and i just thought the whole outlook of the team was very negatiove.

As we've seen even the best lose at home(manU 6-1) but with ManU u know it wont happen very often again.....with us i fear it will

[Number 6]

We went out expecting the win rather than thinking 'Let's try and stick 5 past the useless b*stards'.

[z-layrex]

I don't think any other manager would still have a job by Monday

Oh **** off.

[Guest Col city fan]

Oh **** off.

been making this point for ages but its been 'conveniently' not discussed.

Megson, Dowie, Boothroyd, even Davies would have been out by now if they were our manager.. Sven lives by his past and because he dont make any waves...

[Happy Fox]

What the f**k has happened I have been away the past couple of days can anyone fill me in please.

[Number 6]

been making this point for ages but its been 'conveniently' not discussed.

Megson, Dowie, Boothroyd, even Davies would have been out by now if they were our manager.. Sven lives by his past and because he dont make any waves...

Sven has and will continue to be afforded more time because of his other positive atributes. These being the ability to attract big names, willingness to do PR and visit Thailand etc. Without him we wouldn't have been able to realise the full potential of our wealth.

[Babylon]

been making this point for ages but its been 'conveniently' not discussed.

Megson, Dowie, Boothroyd, even Davies would have been out by now if they were our manager.. Sven lives by his past and because he dont make any waves...

I think you are actually well wide of the mark, any reasonable owner would only now start looking at things and maybe start to question whether things are working out or not. Even then I think they would give him to mid November/December (barring a nightmare run of no points).

Levein had a lesser reputation than him and he came in on the 29 October 2004 and was only sacked when we went into the bottom three on the 25 January 2006. He was given a decent amount of time, personally I thought it was a month or so too long. But I think the board did give him the time to sort stuff out, which I applaud as I always have and always will believe in giving the manager a good crack at it, as I have done with Sven. The effect changing a manager is under played on these boards, and it should be the last resort in my book.

When exactly do you believe he should have been sacked? He can't have gone last year as he'd not had a preseason, and only one notoriously difficult transfer window. So it would have to have been this year, and prior to the game on Saturday it was mathematically possible for us to have been 2nd in the league come 5pm if we had won.

[Guest Col city fan]

Sven has and will continue to be afforded more time because of his other positive atributes. These being the ability to attract big names, willingness to do PR and visit Thailand etc. Without him we wouldn't have been able to realise the full potential of our wealth.

He can do all this by giving a role upstairs...?

These attributes are not ones you need as a manager, but as a PR man!

I agree with you 100%

right man, wrong job title...

[Guest Col city fan]

I think you are actually well wide of the mark, any reasonable owner would only now start looking at things and maybe start to question whether things are working out or not. Even then I think they would give him to mid November/December (barring a nightmare run of no points).

Levein had a lesser reputation than him and he came in on the 29 October 2004 and was only sacked when we went into the bottom three on the 25 January 2006. He was given a decent amount of time, personally I thought it was a month or so too long. But I think the board did give him the time to sort stuff out, which I applaud as I always have and always will believe in giving the manager a good crack

at it, as I have done with Sven. The effect changing a manager is under played on these boards, and it should be the last resort in my book.

When exactly do you believe he should have been sacked? He can't have gone last year as he'd not had a preseason, and only one notoriously difficult transfer window. So it

would have to have been this year, and prior to the game on Saturday it was mathematically possible for us to have been 2nd in the league come 5pm if we had won.

Levein is merely one example.. There are plenty of other managers that have had nowhere near as long as Levein did and you are correct, he was given too long... Probably to the detriment of the club.

Your feeling that changing managers is disruptive too works both ways.. If you sack a bad un and get a good un in it can have a dramatic effect on those working under him and can be like a breath of fresh air.

Why give the one point of view and not the other?

Finally, I stick by my timescale of Christmas.. If we are churning out the boring stuff still by then (which you yourself appear to be becoming ever more disillusioned with) then I would not hesitate to let Sven go.

The point I was making, as well you know, is that Sven is living by reputation alone.. Even the most ardent pro-manager posters on here would have been screaming for the head of a 'less popular' bloke after the dismal showing on Saturday. Dowie, Megson and others are not afforded the patience by fans that Sven gets..

Finally, stop 'what iffing'.. You are too bright to get caught up in this. We aren't second, we are well down the table.

[OzFox]

Another thing that alarmed me was to see Wellens almost panic on the edge of the penalty area in searching a pass to get him out of shooting. Eventually he pushed the ball wide but the chance was gone and I've seen him do it times.

if you had a shot like Wellens, you'd be panicking too.

He's got no back-lift and rarely strikes the ball cleanly. Reminds me a bit of Steve "scuffer" McManaman, but without the skill.

I only saw 4 games last year, just after Wellens had picked up player of the year. Pretty much all he did was pick the ball up on the edge of our own penalty area with his back to play, and pass it straight back to a defender. Really boring to watch.

[Corky]

been making this point for ages but its been 'conveniently' not discussed.

Megson, Dowie, Boothroyd, even Davies would have been out by now if they were our manager.. Sven lives by his past and because he dont make any waves...

Are you sure about that?

If they were the owners' choice then I doubt they would be sacked today.

[Babylon]

Your feeling that changing managers is disruptive too works both ways.. If you sack a bad un and get a good un in it can have a dramatic effect on those working under him and can be like a breath of fresh air.

Why give the one point of view and not the other?

Because that's obvious, but a lot of people seem to think sacking the manager is the answer to everything. It doesn't always work out like that as we've found out to our cost quite recently. That's why I believe people are too hasty in asking for it.

It's about choosing the right moment to make the change, it's not easy to judge when enough is enough. Sack to early and possibly miss out on things turning round, sack to late and you could miss out on giving the new guy enough time to possibly save the season.

The point I was making, as well you know, is that Sven is living by reputation alone.. Even the most ardent pro-manager posters on here would have been screaming for the head of a 'less popular' bloke after the dismal showing on Saturday. Dowie, Megson and others are not afforded the patience by fans that Sven gets..

I know what point you are making because I answered it. I think you are wrong, if I had a manager in charge who had us in the position we were before the game I wouldn't be calling for his head at all. I said I thought we'd start slow, so being able to go 2nd/3rd/4th with a win around that time would have been on course for what I was expecting. .

I'd be ****ed off with the performace, the way he's set the team up and everything else and i'd moan about it. But I wouldn't call for his head because it's still too early. Even you yourself just said you'd give him until Christmas.

Finally, stop 'what iffing'.. You are too bright to get caught up in this. We aren't second, we are well down the table.

I will "what if" if it's a valuable point. The fact we were in that position means the season is far from being the disaster some people are making out. It's not great by any stretch of the imagination, but the fact it was possible is enough for me to say it's still too early to be making changes.

[Mythyaar]

I've already taken that decision in relation to away matches. Our pathetic lack of ambition - starting on day one at Coventry despite the victory - made me rapidly decide it is just not worth the time, effort and expense to watch such negativity.

There's no need for it, as we showed plainly enough in the first half at Forest, but that's the mentality we persist with and the set-up is not much more adventurous at home so why should I torture myself.

We've all referred to various players falling short but in the end you have to ask why the manager is getting so little out of so many. Our persistence in not using Dyer has verged on scandalous. No-one claims the guy is perfect but he does give his level best and he does cause problems in a lot of otherwise solid defences.

Before anything else we need a coaching team who get our basics right. The fountain of potential goals that are corner kicks and free-kicks is rarely more than the faintest trickle at City and it's become a major self-inflicted handicap.

And when all that's done we need to be much more canny. We need to anticipate that opponents will tight mark Kingy or will harrass us quickly. And the way to do that is to have alternatives in the way we attack. But you cannot do that without a balanced team and our coaches should know that.

People laugh at the idea of using Howard up front and if all we do is hack the ball up to him that's fair enough. But Kasper's got a belting punt on him yet we've no-one to take advantage. If Howard is there as an option he has to be dealt with.

If we play Dyer he too has to be dealt with because we have the option of causing danger out wide and those two things serve to make more space in midfield. I shouldn't have to explain this to professional coaches, their getting a badge should acknowledge that they know and understand these things. So why do we get so few marks out of 10 for our preparation?

And not just now but for years.

The least we should require from our pampered players is effort. Yet i was disgusted when I saw Beckford's response to a misplaced Konchesky through ball. Instead of chasing it - and arguably saving it going for a goalkick, he found time to grumble at Konchesky and although he signalled sorry afterwards any chance of saving the ball and the situation were gone.

No, I'm no excusing Konchesky but who the hell is Beckford to grumble at anyone? His own ball control, passing, holding up of the ball and competing for possession has been largely pathetic thus far. He might well be able to forge a partnership with Nugent but not with that attitude because he really isn't good enough to do arrogance and those who are, usually show proper respect to their team-mates at least.

Beckford deserved taking off but Howard or Schlupp could have been available as obvious alternatives and why not? Both give their all in different ways and either might have feasted on Dyer's service.

Another thing that alarmed me was to see Wellens almost panic on the edge of the penalty area in searching a pass to get him out of shooting. Eventually he pushed the ball wide but the chance was gone and I've seen him do it times.

He's just passes the buck when it comes to having a shot and it's no good - we have to get goals from places other than centre-forward but I've little faith in us doing that with the current approach. And six goals in eight of our last nine League games only pays sad testimony to my point.

[Mythyaar]

I agree with the comments that we are far too negative when playing away. I've been to two games (Cardiff and Barnsley) and we took the draw before we even kicked off. That is short changing us away supporters.. we should be playing and strategising for wins every time. The folly of this tactic of drawing the away games and winning the home games has been cruelly exposed this Saturday. I have my ticket for the Burnley game and following our victory over the hammers at the weekend, I expect to see us turn up and absolutely BATTER the other clarets a week tomorrow!!

[Guest Col city fan]

Because that's obvious, but a lot of people seem to think sacking the manager is the answer to everything. It doesn't always work out like that as we've found out to our cost quite recently. That's why I believe people are too hasty in asking for it.

It's about choosing the right moment to make the change, it's not easy to judge when enough is enough. Sack to early and possibly miss out on things turning round, sack to late and you could miss out on giving the new guy enough time to possibly save the season.

I know what point you are making because I answered it. I think you are wrong, if I had a manager in charge who had us in the position we were before the game I wouldn't be calling for his head at all. I said I thought we'd start slow, so being able to go 2nd/3rd/4th with a win around that time would have been on course for what I was expecting. .

I'd be ****ed off with the performace, the way he's set the team up and everything else and i'd moan about it. But I wouldn't call for his head because it's still too early. Even you yourself just said you'd give him until Christmas.

I will "what if" if it's a valuable point. The fact we were in that position means the season is far from being the disaster some people are making out. It's not great by any stretch of the imagination, but the fact it was possible is enough for me to say it's still too early to be making changes.

I guess we could all to-and-fro on here for time immemorial.

I think its this simple:

From what we've seen so far (ie. a year)..do we think Sven as manager, has the savvy to be able to achieve the expected success?

If the answer is yes, then give him till the end of the season and let him prove he can do it

If the answer is no, then consider suitable replacements before too long. If no, then a change needs making soon or its gonna be too late..

What camp do you fall into.. At the start of the season I was prepared to give Sven a chance and I was in the yes camp. I'm afraid now I'm moving rapidly towards the no camp

What camp do you fall into? (and don't give a political answer, just say it how you feel it)

[Reynard Bleu]

I hate the thought of Manager change again, it just smacks of desperation. Its always a trauma. At this stage I don't want Sven to go. Having said that something needs to change - we have to turn it around now, not over the next few games but now, in training and with the first kick of the next match, the players need to convince them selves they will win because they are going to sweat hard for it and dig deep and do the simple things well and take the game to the opponent with power, pace and desire. We have great poetntial but have delivered nowhere near what is actually required to be top drawer in this division. We need to be more agressive, force the game more, play in the opponents half and find someone with the craft or guile to unlock those teams that try and shut us out with numbers. For all our midfield reputation only fleetingly have we seen the speed of thought and action that finds the chink in the armour of opposition defenses. Quality with that final pass, put 20 good quality balls in to the box and I'm sure we would get the rewards. To many of the balls we put in are too short, to high, too slow, etc.

I am frustrated as buggery.

[Simmo86]

I agree with the comments that we are far too negative when playing away. I've been to two games (Cardiff and Barnsley) and we took the draw before we even kicked off. That is short changing us away supporters.. we should be playing and strategising for wins every time. The folly of this tactic of drawing the away games and winning the home games has been cruelly exposed this Saturday. I have my ticket for the Burnley game and following our victory over the hammers at the weekend, I expect to see us turn up and absolutely BATTER the other clarets a week tomorrow!!

Wouldn't say we played for the draw at Cardiff, we created and missed more than enough chances to win the game

[Guest Col city fan]

I hate the thought of Manager change again, it just smacks of desperation. Its always a trauma. At this stage I don't want Sven to go. Having said that something needs to change - we have to turn it around now, not over the next few games but now, in training and with the first kick of the next match, the players need to convince them selves they will win because they are going to sweat hard for it and dig deep and do the simple things well and take the game to the opponent with power, pace and desire. We have great poetntial but have delivered nowhere near what is actually required to be top drawer in this division. We need to be more agressive, force the game more, play in the opponents half and find someone with the craft or guile to unlock those teams that try and shut us out with numbers. For all our midfield reputation only fleetingly have we seen the speed of thought and action that finds the chink in the armour of opposition defenses. Quality with that final pass, put 20 good quality balls in to the box and I'm sure we would get the rewards. To many of the balls we put in are too short, to high, too slow, etc.

I am frustrated as buggery.

Mate..look at what you've just written... its a wish-list of what could be... and I definately think it could be!

If its not happening, and you believe it could do, you gotta look at why?

How can you wish this, and then say you don't want a change of manager?

Its like saying I want a 'cordon bleu dinner' and then going to try and find it at MacDonalds.. it wont happen

Either Sven somehow gets this right, or he goes..you can't have both...