Rivalry inquiry

[Guest MattP]

Errrr... it sort of does, tbh.

If you're really that wrapped up in the idea of derby matches, go and watch an Old Firm game, a South Wales derby, Pompey vs. Soton, Newcastle vs. Sunderland, United vs. Liverpool, City or Leeds or - if you have the money - Hansa vs Sankt Pauli, S04 vs. BVB, Partizan vs. Red Star - the list goes on and on and on. Go expand your experience a little bit, come back and see if you're still in love with our local "derbies."

Not done Rostock but Hamburg-St Pauli and Rangers- Celtic are musts for anyone of fan culture.

I also caught an unintentional beauty around 8 years ago when we went to Budapest for a mates stag do and it coincided with the weekend Ferencvaros played Ujpest.

I'll be honest LA Galaxy V Chivas has more emotion attached to it than anything we have got.

[Fox92]

Coventry for me. I am under the impression Coventry don't like us, so I don't like them back.

I know we are not rivals, but I take a dislike to Sheffield Wednesday (because of where I live) and Burnley as well.

[astoriafox]

As a LCFC fan born and raised in Leeds (with only reason that being a city fan was because I was bought a football shirt when I was 5 at a sale and the only one which fit me was the classic admiral shirt from mid 70's) it has to be Leeds due to the amount of stick I got from school friends and associates!

Hate to say but I have a soft spot for the florists due to thinking Cloughie was a legend.

Don't mind the Chavs as they beat Spurs in FA Cup when I was a little un. (being city fan I always tend to like clubs who get one over the big boys)

Don't really mind Derby either (which is strange!)

Have no reason to dislike Boro, but I do!

Got to be Leeds Leeds Leeds. Took great pride in them being relegated to 3rd as we had never been there, only for it to bite me in the arse following season! DOH!

Do I not like Leeds!

[Kitchandro]

Errrr... it sort of does, tbh.

If you're really that wrapped up in the idea of derby matches, go and watch an Old Firm game, a South Wales derby, Pompey vs. Soton, Newcastle vs. Sunderland, United vs. Liverpool, City or Leeds or - if you have the money - Hansa vs Sankt Pauli, S04 vs. BVB, Partizan vs. Red Star - the list goes on and on and on. Go expand your experience a little bit, come back and see if you're still in love with our local "derbies."

We're just a couple of unfashionable midlands clubs with a generic, vague dislike for each other because we're close. It isn't massive, it isn't really a derby and it hardly evokes THAT much passion.

Yes we're rivals, yes we care, yes Forest fans care more than they let on but let's not kid ourselves either, eh?

Speak for yourself, I've no interest in going to any of those games, why would they mean anything to me? Who are you to tell me I only have a 'vague dislike' for our rivals? You haven't got a bloody clue how I, or a lot of our fans feel, quite obviously.

The only games I have passion for is Leicester games. You sound just like Sky Sports, 'this derby is the biggest fixture of your season' - no, it is for the fans involved, no one else.

And it's one thing to mention the Old Firm or some of those foreign ones but you can't be serious about some of those other ones

Man Utd - Leeds, what makes you say that's 'massive' when man Utd don't consider them as their first or even second rivals? If it has a better atmosphere it's because they are both massive clubs with a lot of fans. Portsmouth/Southampton

[MC Prussian]

Like others have already stated, it depends on where in Leicestershire you grew up/where you're living within the county.

The North/Northeast area, in the vicinity of Loughborough, is more filled with people having a dislike for Nottingham Forest (and maybe to a smaller extent Derby), whereas the Northwest (around Coalville or Ashby) would fetch you more fans stating they dislike Derby County.

Coventry City have faded away as a rivalry, mostly thanks to the demise of Coventry City itself. Poor team, poor fans, poor attendances over the past couple of years.

Still, people from the West and Southwest region of Leicestershire (Hinckley and the likes) do see Coventry as their main rival, I guess.

Peterborough would like to be a rival, but that's a feeling most Leicester fans don't share, since there have been few matchups between the two sides in the past. It has only gained a bit of momentum since United got promoted to the Championship or when we were in League One.

On a personal scale (and I don't have any family ties to Leics), it'd probably look like this:

1. Nottingham Forest

2. Derby County

3. Coventry City.

Having said that, they're not really "rivalries" in the classic sense. We do well taking the piss out of them whenever we visit Pride Park or the City Ground (and especially the RICOH Empty Arena), our home support is generally poor in terms of vocal support and both Derby and F*%est don't have mutual feelings towards us - even though they usually gloat about their triumphs online whenever they beat us. Derby vs. F34wst is much more of a derby than we'll ever get or trying to get.

[shilton-fox]

We don't really have a big derby but i hate most teams like liverpool n chelsea because of all the plastic fans, and where i live in shilton everyone hates cov so they'd be mine

[Leicfox]

I couldn't careless about any of them.

[flowwolf]

Man unt they have been sucking on Satan's cock from the day they started. No one unless they are in league with the devil could have so much luck. I bloody detest them. :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

[bobbysmith]

i'm not from leicester so i hate BRISTOL SH*TY

[The Doctor]

Speak for yourself, I've no interest in going to any of those games, why would they mean anything to me? Who are you to tell me I only have a 'vague dislike' for our rivals? You haven't got a bloody clue how I, or a lot of our fans feel, quite obviously.

The only games I have passion for is Leicester games. You sound just like Sky Sports, 'this derby is the biggest fixture of your season' - no, it is for the fans involved, no one else.

And it's one thing to mention the Old Firm or some of those foreign ones but you can't be serious about some of those other ones

Man Utd - Leeds, what makes you say that's 'massive' when man Utd don't consider them as their first or even second rivals? If it has a better atmosphere it's because they are both massive clubs with a lot of fans. Portsmouth/Southampton

Man Utd - Leeds is a big derby, if some Man Utd don't consider them main rivals then it's only because they've only meet once or twice in nigh on a decade. The venom and passion in those odd meetings is still impressive.

Don't see why you're laughing at Pompey v So'ton - hell of a lot of layers to that game, not a case of you're local therefore we hate you and it's got a lot going for it in the stands.

Likewise Newcastle/Sunderland can be quite volatile. Our "derbies" are a bit pathetic in comparison to some in this country, let alone the likes of Fener - Galatasary, Dynamo v Hadjuk etc.

[Finnegan]

Speak for yourself, I've no interest in going to any of those games, why would they mean anything to me? Who are you to tell me I only have a 'vague dislike' for our rivals? You haven't got a bloody clue how I, or a lot of our fans feel, quite obviously.

The only games I have passion for is Leicester games. You sound just like Sky Sports, 'this derby is the biggest fixture of your season' - no, it is for the fans involved, no one else.

And it's one thing to mention the Old Firm or some of those foreign ones but you can't be serious about some of those other ones

Man Utd - Leeds, what makes you say that's 'massive' when man Utd don't consider them as their first or even second rivals? If it has a better atmosphere it's because they are both massive clubs with a lot of fans. Portsmouth/Southampton

So the only big rivalries are the ones you can relate to? I'm not telling you what you feel but I AM saying that regardless of how strongly you, as an individual, feel about Forest; any 'beef' between us and them is spectacularly small on a global level.

You really do have a small world view. When you start to travel the world, or even just the country, I'm sure you'll come to realise that a lot of these 'derbies' and rivalries are built on cultural, historical or political ground and thus evoke serious ill-feeling that far transcends a bit of local geography. You should take in a Pompey / Soton game for the spectacle or speak to people from those towns before you scoff. There is animosity there that goes back decades (as there is in the North East) and it's about far more than just football. It's an entire cultural rivalry that the sport has simply become a vessel for. THAT is a derby.

[Bayfox]

Can I select all 3.

For me I always hated The Sheep growing up as we seemed to play them more than the F-Word who where an established top flight Club as were Cov, however the 1st time we played Forest at Filbert St during my time, i realised how much they were disliked, afterall they just bleat on about 1979/80 30 years on.

i never saw Cov as big rivals but having had to put up with them at our level over the last 10 or so seasons I really now have a massive dislike of them, they just seem a pointless club, I honestly wouldn't mind if they just disapeared, I hate there ground, fans everything about them, where as despite having no love for the other 2 clubs I do admire them in a way, Derby are a bit like ourselves and F-Word do have a good past, I just don't need reminding of it.

I also like a few others on here have no time of day for Franchise FC and for some reason have a real dislike of Plymouth.

[Lcfclee]

Wolves I fricking hate wolves with a passion if I was a terrorist I'd target wolves . I really deteste wolves so much that if I lived there I'd hang myself by my nut sack oh and those other midlands sides I hate them too, but wolves god I really don't like wolves . Cvnts

[Kitchandro]

So the only big rivalries are the ones you can relate to? I'm not telling you what you feel but I AM saying that regardless of how strongly you, as an individual, feel about Forest; any 'beef' between us and them is spectacularly small on a global level.

You really do have a small world view. When you start to travel the world, or even just the country, I'm sure you'll come to realise that a lot of these 'derbies' and rivalries are built on cultural, historical or political ground and thus evoke serious ill-feeling that far transcends a bit of local geography. You should take in a Pompey / Soton game for the spectacle or speak to people from those towns before you scoff. There is animosity there that goes back decades (as there is in the North East) and it's about far more than just football. It's an entire cultural rivalry that the sport has simply become a vessel for. THAT is a derby.

You see I completely disagree with this. Football fans are football fans, if rivalries were actually about political, cultural or, in the Old Firm' case, religious issues, then winning a football match against them wouldn't be that important. In that game, there is fighting all the while because they both have thuggish, backward fans and there is a big alcohol problem, not because they are different religions, etc. The average football fan does not give a shit about anything like the stuff you mention, many of them probably wouldn't even understand what they were talking about even if they knew the line about the history of the derby. All of that other stuff is just hype and an excuse to be violent. For the majority anyway.

So no, can't agree with that, it IS based on geography, that is why pretty much all rivalries are between clubs in close proximity of each other. How may rivalries are there between clubs who are a long way away from each other - even if they have cultural, political, religious, or other differences and have played each other loads of times? There aren't many. The ones that aren't local are generally because of past football events, such as a particular incident or 2 of the most successful teams in a certain country.

Even if these other issues were a factor in the past, and the roots of the rivalry, how many people who actually attend these games will have been personally affected by them? Most people who go to the football are just thinking about their team winning a football match, they are not bothered about a victory for 'their kind' or whatever. Winning a football match will never make up for other issues anyway, other than putting you in a good mood for a while.

And is Newcastle/Sunderland not about geography then? What's the back story of Man U/Man City and Man U/Liverpool? You say those are 'real' derbies. I'd say the last one is more about them both being massive and hugely successful clubs if anything.

I don't know what you mean by 'global level'. The rivalry is only felt by fans of the respective clubs, it bears no impact on me or the world. Even if it's the biggest rivalry in the world, it still doesn't have a global effect and that's my point. Our local derbies are massive games to me and very very important to a large number of Leicester fans. I never said they were the biggest derbies in the world or the best atmospheres, but to say they aren't 'real' derbies just because they don't have irrelevant political back stories is just wrong. The terms 'derby' and 'rivalry' refer to sport football, football clubs and football fans, anything else has nothing to do with those terms, or football.

Yes other rivalries are bigger in terms of the clubs are bigger and there are more fans involved so it creates a better atmosphere, but non-football issues are a sideshow. I think if anyone seriously takes those issues out of context and into football they are just pathetic, football has nothing to do with those other things, people shouldn't pretend it does.

[davieG]

I've picked Notts Forest, not because of where I live but because for the early part of my supporting Leicester they were the only one of the 3 EM teams we played regularly, Cov, historically were always a lower League team they got into the top flight league for the 1st time as late as 1967 granted they stayed there for 34 years mostly by the narrowest of margins. We were subsequently relegated in '69. As for Derby they came up as we went down in 1969 so again we didn't really play them either.

At least that's how I remember it.

[MC Prussian]

You see I completely disagree with this. Football fans are football fans, if rivalries were actually about political, cultural or, in the Old Firm' case, religious issues, then winning a football match against them wouldn't be that important. In that game, there is fighting all the while because they both have thuggish, backward fans and there is a big alcohol problem, not because they are different religions, etc. The average football fan does not give a shit about anything like the stuff you mention, many of them probably wouldn't even understand what they were talking about even if they knew the line about the history of the derby. All of that other stuff is just hype and an excuse to be violent. For the majority anyway.

So no, can't agree with that, it IS based on geography, that is why pretty much all rivalries are between clubs in close proximity of each other. How may rivalries are there between clubs who are a long way away from each other - even if they have cultural, political, religious, or other differences and have played each other loads of times? There aren't many. The ones that aren't local are generally because of past football events, such as a particular incident or 2 of the most successful teams in a certain country.

Even if these other issues were a factor in the past, and the roots of the rivalry, how many people who actually attend these games will have been personally affected by them? Most people who go to the football are just thinking about their team winning a football match, they are not bothered about a victory for 'their kind' or whatever. Winning a football match will never make up for other issues anyway, other than putting you in a good mood for a while.

And is Newcastle/Sunderland not about geography then? What's the back story of Man U/Man City and Man U/Liverpool? You say those are 'real' derbies. I'd say the last one is more about them both being massive and hugely successful clubs if anything.

I don't know what you mean by 'global level'. The rivalry is only felt by fans of the respective clubs, it bears no impact on me or the world. Even if it's the biggest rivalry in the world, it still doesn't have a global effect and that's my point. Our local derbies are massive games to me and very very important to a large number of Leicester fans. I never said they were the biggest derbies in the world or the best atmospheres, but to say they aren't 'real' derbies just because they don't have irrelevant political back stories is just wrong. The terms 'derby' and 'rivalry' refer to sport football, football clubs and football fans, anything else has nothing to do with those terms, or football.

Yes other rivalries are bigger in terms of the clubs are bigger and there are more fans involved so it creates a better atmosphere, but non-football issues are a sideshow. I think if anyone seriously takes those issues out of context and into football they are just pathetic, football has nothing to do with those other things, people shouldn't pretend it does.

a) Politically, historically, religiously and racially motivated football rivalries are indeed "better" in terms of atmosphere because there's much more involved, so much more at stake than simple bragging rights amongst 15-year olds (whether I'd like to be part of any of these aforementioned scenes is a different matter altogether).

b) There are thuggish, racial fans in the UK. Actually, still quite a lot. And the issue with alcohol abuse is not an inch better, on the contrary.

c) There are a lot more "average football fans" in the UK, because the rivalries they're boasting about have nothing to do with political, historical, religious or racial backgrounds. All they have speaking for them is proximity. D'oh.

d) Many fans involved in clashes between rival clubs outside the UK do so because it's a family thing - passed down from one generation to the other. Again, I can't really see that in the UK (with a few exceptions like the Glasgow derby or Millwall vs. West Ham, for instance).

Actually, you simply confirm the image of a certain group of Leicester City fans who see themselves as the centre of the universe.

I'd strongly suggest you leave your safe comfort zone for a while, travel a bit and then come back and claim the same...

I do think F3w5st and Derby fans do have a point when they say the rivalry between them two is more fierce and more "classic" than games against Leicester.

I'm not saying games against F"3st or Derby aren't great rivalries, but seeing it from a different perspective, we're to them what Peterborough are to us.

[Ozwin]

I actually fvcking hate this topic of discussion with a passion.

[wellyfox]

1 Chelski

2 The tree's

3 sheep n covscum

4 anyone else from the midland's

5 whoever we are playing on the day (jumps to number one on match day)

Reason for 1 is you should have been around in the 70's n 80's getting kicked across a road by about 8 of em ain't fun.

Oh and just to piss em off got a soft spot for Pboro :scarf:

[Kitchandro]

a) Politically, historically, religiously and racially motivated football rivalries are indeed "better" in terms of atmosphere because there's much more involved, so much more at stake than simple bragging rights amongst 15-year olds (whether I'd like to be part of any of these aforementioned scenes is a different matter altogether).

b) There are thuggish, racial fans in the UK. Actually, still quite a lot. And the issue with alcohol abuse is not an inch better, on the contrary.

c) There are a lot more "average football fans" in the UK, because the rivalries they're boasting about have nothing to do with political, historical, religious or racial backgrounds. All they have speaking for them is proximity. D'oh.

d) Many fans involved in clashed between rival clubs outside the UK do so because it's a family thing - passed down from one generation to the other. Again, I can't really see that in the UK (with a few exceptions like the Glasgow derby or Millwall vs. West Ham, for instance).

Actually, you simply confirm the image of a certain group of Leicester City fans who see themselves as the centre of the universe.

I'd strongly suggest you leave your safe comfort zone for a while, travel a bit and then come back and claim the same...

I do think F3w5st and Derby fans do have a point when they say the rivalry between them two is more fierce and more "classic" than games against Leicester.

I'm not saying games against F"3st or Derby aren't great rivalries, but seeing it from a different perspective, we're to them what Peterborough are to us.

a) But there isn't so much more at stake, you still only get 3 points a bragging rights. Even if people were bothered about these other issues when going to the football, it's not a victory for anything other than their team, they don't benefit in any other way.

B) I didn't mean to suggest Scottish people were thugs and we're not. I'm saying that these are the reasons football fans are violent, the religious thing is just an excuse for the Old Firm lot. The fact it seems to happen more there though does suggest there are more violent people going to those games than most over here.

C) Again, I don't see how these backgrounds bare any real relevance to the football. They have nothing to do with football in truth.

D) Yes hate is passed down through the family, as is my hate for Forest, Derby and Coventry, as is my love for Leicester. Hating a club for where their home ground is irrational and doesn't make sense, but so is, for example, hating a club, or even a group of people, for the religious views a large part of their members may or may not have. There is no requirements for supporting a certain club or going to their matches, so how can you hate all of a clubs fans for things that you don't necessarily know are true? Quite a few people who go to the football are not stupid and realise this, they might be taught to hate another club but a lot of them will never really understand why, and may never really believe they are hating them for the reasons they claim to. It's ridiculous to suggest you hate a football club and it's fans for things that aren't about football. Can't you see that that doesn't make sense and is therefore not really true?

I resent the term 'real derby', the term derby when talking about football refers to 2 teams who have a rivalry, the definition mentions nothing about the key factor being political issues or other things like that.

As for Derby/Forest, yes admittedly the majority of their fans care the most about each other so in that sense it is more 'fierce'. But the point I was trying to make was I don't sit in the Forest end, I stand in the Leicester end it can be pretty amazing and the last couple of home games against them have led to scenes as good as you can get at pretty much every derby in the UK. As for Forest/Derby being a 'classic' derby, I don't really agree as it was a nothing match until the 80s. That was one formed upon something other than just proximity true, but it is still a footballing reason.

Whether you class the majority of UK derbies as 'real derbies' is up to you, but I just don't agree with people belittling our rivalries as if they are not good or as important to a lot of Leicester fans as other rivalries are to other clubs. I'm not being awkward for the sake of it, I just don't believe in some of the things that have been claimed in this thread.

[Finnegan]

Football fans are football fans, if rivalries were actually about political, cultural or, in the Old Firm' case, religious issues, then winning a football match against them wouldn't be that important.

You're kidding? Tournament competition has been the basis for bragging rights between tribes for millennia. We might consider ourselves more civilized today but the psychological basis is still very much there. Your problem is that you're trying to separate culture and football. You can't, the two are inherently linked and for a lot of people, their politics (or religion) and their football are completely coexistent. That's where their passion comes from.

In that game, there is fighting all the while because they both have thuggish, backward fans and there is a big alcohol problem, not because they are different religions, etc.

No, there's fighting because one side's extreme fans identify heavily as Republican Irish and the other as hardcore Unionists. It also doesn't help that large volumes of the suppor at Old Firm games actually do come over from Northern Ireland to fill Glasgow on derby days. This is exactly what we're talking about, then, because they then use the football (and their support of it) as an outlet for their hatred and their emotions. Football is their tool for one-upmanship, for competition.

The average football fan does not give a shit about anything like the stuff you mention, many of them probably wouldn't even understand what they were talking about even if they knew the line about the history of the derby. All of that other stuff is just hype and an excuse to be violent. For the majority anyway.

The "average" football fan doesn't give a shit, no. But the average football fan isn't what makes the likes of the OF, the Superclásico (Boca vs. River), the Belgrade derby (Partizan vs Red Star) or any other of these "real" derbies the heated and electric events that they are. And, sure, the sort of thugs that make up the hard-line support of a lot of these clubs may have completely lost touch with why exactly they began to hate each other in the first place, but it's still generations and generations and generations of incredibly visceral hatred that's been passed down and passed down and can be traced back to politics, religion or class (another common one).

At the end of the day, none of us are saying that Forest - Leicester isn't a local rivalry and isn't something most of us care about. We do care, they do care, it DOES get pretty heated, there ARE the occasional scraps and the atmosphere IS better than a standard match day. I just think, sometimes, people get so obsessed with the attraction to "Fan Culture" that they desperately try and over-hype things. It's not a major derby, it's not even really a derby at all and making out that it is is just... well, cringeworthy.

[Bob Weasel Fox]

People say i cant see the woods through the trees but i hate F****t more than anyone else

[Tielemans63]

I'm going to say Birmingham. Just to be different and cuz no-one else has. I really do not like them though for breaking Muzzy

[accessory]

The Leicester/Nottingham rivalry is similar to those in other areas of the UK (Newcastle-Sunderland, Ipswich-Norwich, Southampton-Portsmouth etc) in that it exists way beyond football. In fact, it dates back centuries, right back to the Civil War, when Leicester backed Cromwell and Nottingham backed the monarchy.

The repercussions have lasted ever since and help to explain why Nottingham, despite only being the second-biggest city in the East Midlands, is widely regarded as the region's capital, thus securing investment, jobs and resources which by rights should be coming here. Some of us recall how it even attempted to claim the region's airport as its own, despite the fact that the facility is actually closer to Derby than Nottingham and is serviced by council tax payers in Leicester. And for many years, "regional" television stations have given far more prominence to stories in Nottingham (where of course the main studios are located) than those in and around Leicester.

These actions help to build a resentment which would exist even without football, but does explain the tensions that have been evident (on both sides) at Leicester-Forest matches since the 1960s at least. They may not be on the scale or intensity of Real Madrid vs. Barcelona, but they do deserve to be acknowledged and recognised.

Although technically speaking, Forest's longest and closest rivalry is not with Derby or us, but with their neighbours across the river, who for a brief period in the mid-1970s were actually Nottingham's premier club. I hope County can meet them on an equal footing again in the near future.

[ashfosse]

Living in the West Mids, absolutely hate Cov. If only the hate went both ways and Cov had a bit of support, could of worked out to be a tasty derby/rivalry.

WYS

[fox_you_off]

Cardiff, I hate them as much if not more then forrest and Derby