Todays strikes.

[breadandcheese]

Did anybody watch the two-part TV programme from Nick Robinson looking at taxes and spending in the UK? Well worth watching on BBC iplayer. It shatters many myths and misunderstandings.

Talking of misunderstandings, i was discussing the strikes with a teacher friend. The most interesting aspect is that she regards the private sector as big businesses earning large profits or the City of London, with people earning fortunes.

- The reality is that the average business in the UK employs 4 people (68% of business employ 1-4 people).

- The IFS latest figures show that average earnings in the public sector are 7.5% higher than the private sector

- We are all living much longer, so when public sector pensions were agreed, it was only expected to be paying the pension for an average of a few years, which is not the case any more as the average person lives on well into their mid-80s.

All in all, the country cannot afford the size of the public sector on current rates.

In short, the increasing tax revenues from 2000-2007 (which the government used to fund year on year real terms increases in public spending), have been tax revenues built on the sands of banking and housing. Now that these sectors have crashed, the tax receipts have been shown to be unsustainable. In that respect, it's no surprise that the public sector has to be cut.

[breadandcheese]

I went on strike today. I'll be a hefty six-figure amount worse off if the tabled pensions proposals go through (assuming I live to an average life expectancy). Logically, if you were in my position, you'd do the same. I defy anyone to be sanctimonious enough to differ.

I completely understand why the strikers are striking, I would do the same in their position.

However, I don't regard this as a strike against the government, but more as a strike against taxpayers / the private sector as it is us who will have to pay more. Government's do not have money, they use our money. You can therefore understand why I don't support the strike.

[RobHawk]

Ok thanks for letting me know where I get my opinion from. You sound like El Empty in one of his conspiracy threads saying anyone with a differing opinion is some kind of government sheep.

I'd rather read a good newspaper with some independent views. Which usually end up along the lines of the deals as they are are not sustainable in the long term. Pensions wise we're all fecked, public or private sector. But there needs to be a bit more parity.

Not technically true! This makes very interesting reading and just goes to show why we can't trust MP's from any party! they are all bad!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jun/17/francis-maude-rhodium-plated-pensions

[RobHawk]

Did anybody watch the two-part TV programme from Nick Robinson looking at taxes and spending in the UK? Well worth watching on BBC iplayer. It shatters many myths and misunderstandings.

Talking of misunderstandings, i was discussing the strikes with a teacher friend. The most interesting aspect is that she regards the private sector as big businesses earning large profits or the City of London, with people earning fortunes.

- The reality is that the average business in the UK employs 4 people (68% of business employ 1-4 people).

- The IFS latest figures show that average earnings in the public sector are 7.5% higher than the private sector

- We are all living much longer, so when public sector pensions were agreed, it was only expected to be paying the pension for an average of a few years, which is not the case any more as the average person lives on well into their mid-80s.

All in all, the country cannot afford the size of the public sector on current rates.

In short, the increasing tax revenues from 2000-2007 (which the government used to fund year on year real terms increases in public spending), have been tax revenues built on the sands of banking and housing. Now that these sectors have crashed, the tax receipts have been shown to be unsustainable. In that respect, it's no surprise that the public sector has to be cut.

Interesting that the cost of public sector pensions is coming down! This is an interesting read:

http://flipchartfairytales.wordpress.com/2011/07/01/public-sector-pensions-sooner-or-later-the-axe-will-fall/

The crux of the issue is the governements propaganda campaign to say that these pensions are completely unaffordable, this is clearly not the case, what they want to do is bolster the coffers with money currently being spent on pensions. I think the government has shown itself for what it really is. They really don't care about any of us!

[Saxondale]

Talking of misunderstandings, i was discussing the strikes with a teacher friend. The most interesting aspect is that she regards the private sector as big businesses earning large profits or the City of London, with people earning fortunes.

- The reality is that the average business in the UK employs 4 people (68% of business employ 1-4 people).

- The IFS latest figures show that average earnings in the public sector are 7.5% higher than the private sector

- We are all living much longer, so when public sector pensions were agreed, it was only expected to be paying the pension for an average of a few years, which is not the case any more as the average person lives on well into their mid-80s.

Exactly. The private sector is not just city traders and Lord Alan Sugar - it's people who stack shelves in Tesco, self-employed window cleaners, people who work at the Walkers Crisps factory.

[Thracian]

"I mean, how dare they go on strike when they've got these gilt-edged pensions that are going to be guaranteed while the rest of us have to work for a living."

Clarkson works? He should keep his facist gob shut. I never liked him anyway. All he cares about is himself and his 100 grand flashy car.

Thracian, I wish I had a job and I would not consider £67.50 pw JSA a fortune. Would you stop the money for pensioners and disabled people too? You did say 'If they don't work, they don't earn'

Seems there are still a few Thatcherites scattered about.

If you want a job do the same as I've had to do several times and make one. If not don't complain that you're hard up.

There;'s plenty of space on the market as you well know.. Six-thirty start with loading, 5.30 finish through the freezing cold of winter. Why the hell should I go through that day in, day out and pay your way?

If you want a job there's plenty. They're crying out for chefs and kitchen hands, hotel porters all sorts. Up to 85 hours a week if you want it. My son will happily point you in the right direction. Otherwise, invest in yourself and develop your writing.

And, by the way I'm already a pensioner. It doesn't make me either lazy or useless. Nor does it make me want other people to hold my sodding hand.

As for the "disabled." most of those I've met want to play a useful role in society instead of being considered helpless.

Yes, they might need some assistance of various kinds and I'm all for that, but there are very few disabled who are incapable of doing anything.

I gave regular work to a mongol lad myself and he loved it - having things to do, a bit of extra money for himself and a whole lot of friends to talk to. It's what they need where possible - a sense of purpose.

And don't portray me as a Thatcherite either. You know nothing of my politics or social input.

In fact why don't you join me one day and we'll see the truth of what a good, caring socialist you really are. You can come with me to the rehab clinic at Glenfield Hospital or buy a week's groceries for someone who's been abused and raped since she was four.

I'll show you so much of the bad side of life it'll make you weep - any day you choose - and you'll probably have the material for a dozen books as a bonus! .

[Wherethefoxhat?]

Exactly. The private sector is not just city traders and Lord Alan Sugar - it's people who stack shelves in Tesco, self-employed window cleaners, people who work at the Walkers Crisps factory.

Lord Alan "Up my own arse" Sugar ...........about time someone "fired" him...........preferably out of a cannon !!

[Rincewind]

We have had arount 32 years of Toryist governments (Blair and Brown included) so it's no wonder the workers of this country have succombed and given up. The young 'uns don't know anything else.

Anyway my time is about up for working. Unlikely to get another job. Age and physical attributes against me so looking at other options. Not as mobile as I was. I' am willing to stand aside for a younger person in the job market.

I have no skilled trade chef for eg. I have worked 48-60 hrs in a week and paid taxes for 45 years so I am not lazy.

[?????]

The strikes were funnily enough benifiting us at work (McDonalds), we were taking what we normally do on a saturday on a wednesday.

[21st Century Fox]

If you want a job do the same as I've had to do several times and make one. If not don't complain that you're hard up. There;'s plenty of space on the market as you well know.. Six o'clock start, 5.30 finish through the freezing cold of winter. Why the hell should I go through that day in, day out and pay your way?

If you want a job there's plenty. They're crying out for chefs and kitchen hands, hotel porters all sorts. Up to 85 hours a week if you want it. My son will happily point you in the right direction.

And, by the way I'm already a pensioner. It doesn't make me either lazy or useless. Nor does it make me want other people to hold my sodding hand.

As for the "disabled." most of those I've met want to play a useful role in society instead of being considered helpless. Yes, they might need some assistance of various kinds and I'm all for that, but there are very few disabled who are incapable of doing anything.

I gave regular work to a mongol lad myself and he loved it - having things to do, a bit of extra money for himself and a whole lot of friends to talk to. It's what they need where possible - a sense of purpose.

You definitely mean Mongolian there don't you??

[Rincewind]

I've applied for plenty of cleaning jobs but I don't even get a reply or acknowledgement. I applied for a job as a litter picker 8 hours a week. Was told there was 40 plus applicants. I do not drive so location is limited as is starting and finishing times.

[Thracian]

We have had arount 32 years of Toryist governments (Blair and Brown included) so it's no wonder the workers of this country have succombed and given up. The young 'uns don't know anything else.

Anyway my time is about up for working. Unlikely to get another job. Age and physical attributes against me so looking at other options. Not as mobile as I was. I' am willing to stand aside for a younger person in the job market.

I have no skilled trade chef for eg. I have worked 48-60 hrs in a week and paid taxes for 45 years so I am not lazy.

Who's given up? You speak for yourself and don't include young people either, because I know plenty who have and are showing themselves willing to do whatever's necessary to make their way.

You reap what you sew. If you think you've done or had enough that's your choice but don't expect others to prop you up if you want a better standard of living.

My sister was made redundant at 55 after years of service recently. Her reaction? Learn some new skills and get some different work. Teaching and counselling have been her choices (Heaven help her! ) .

It's down to you. If you want to let circumstances beat you no-one can stop you. But i reckon you should stop feeling sorry for yourself, stop using the myth of Tory or any other government as an excuse for for copping out and haul yourself back on the carousel of life.

We all have setbacks...my middle son lost his girlfriend in childbirth this year and Gary Speed's family have lost a husband and father just lately - but the cards fall differently for all of us and it's how we play em that counts.

But for God's sake hold your head up. There's no sympathy for quitters in any walk of life.

[Thracian]

I've applied for plenty of cleaning jobs but I don't even get a reply or acknowledgement. I applied for a job as a litter picker 8 hours a week. Was told there was 40 plus applicants. I do not drive so location is limited as is starting and finishing times.

Start your own cleaning business. Give me your leaflets and I'll help you get em out to thousands. And get a bike.

Basically, you need to decide what it's possible for you to do and then think in terms of problem/solution until you make it happen.

[RobHawk]

I think Thracians missed his vocation! He'd have been a great Careers Advisor!

he'd have probably been on strike outraged at what the government planned to do with his hard earned pension then!

[Rincewind]

Very good of you to offer but realisically I do not have the business mind or experience to start up on my own. I have not given up but being realistic.I know someone that was a chef but he packed it in because of the hours, wages and the way he was treated He has experience to find work elsewhere.

I worked 30 years in a warehouse then 7 in security so my skills are limited. I have taken a ECDL course but that is just a bog standard school one so employers are not going to be that impressed and not much use for non-skilled work. TBH I would prefer part time work giving me more time to pursue other interests. But in reality I may have to take a full time job if one came up.

I have never ridden a bike. Well I did when a teenagerand crashed and never been on one since. I do not balance very well on one. I bought am electric one off Ebay, thought it would be easier, but I never felt safe on it so now its stuck in my kitchen needing a good home.

I have put my name down for volunteering work in the hope it will leed to something pernament. I just need an employer to look at my CV and not throw it in the bin when he sees my DOB. That's up to them whether they read further about my better qualities.

As I said I am not the most mobile person, do not have a great strength in my hands for lifting and I was born with a discolated hip which slows me down but I have managed to get through 45 years of working full time and paying taxes.

I never knew about my hip until recently. Never occurred to me that anything was wrong. I am willing to try anything though.

[Babylon]

I see the unions have had a massive sense oh humour failure over Clarkson, along with about 5000 other people... all of which I would bet are teachers.

[Guest MattP]

I see the unions have had a massive sense oh humour failure over Clarkson, along with about 5000 other people... all of which I would bet are teachers.

The vortex of indignation began just after 7pm when Jeremy Clarkson, the country's highest ranking oaf, presented, without a hint of irony, his detailed plan to shoot public sector workers in front of their families.

Within moments Tony Parsons, the official Left-Wing Clarkson, said people who criticise public sector workers were Nazis while, John Prescott, the former Lord High Oaf, said his successor was guilty of a 'hate crime'.

In turn Parsons was accused of outrageous anti-Semitism while Prescott was forced to deny being deputy leader of the Khmer Rouge during the 1970s.

Seconds later the country was straining at the limits of its 140 character allowance in a bid to react to the reaction reactions in a way that was guaranteed to provoke a reaction.

Bill McKay said: "People who compare strike critics to Nazis should be gassed and cremated as part of a huge, secret plan to wipe out Nazi-comparers."

Helen Archer said: "Anyone who thinks Nazi-comparers should be gassed is worse than Jeffrey Dahmer and should be raped in prison three times a day."

Nikki Hollis said: "People who say Nazi-comparers are worse than Jeffrey Dahmer want to rip my mother's heart out, eat it and puke it into a bucket which they...[new tweet] ...will then use to paint the front of my house."

Meanwhile Tom Logan, who suggested that Clarkson's original comment was, perhaps, an advert for a DVD, was accused of being a member of the Ku Klux Klan.

Logan also suggested that instead of reacting to Clarkson reaction reactions we should, perhaps, come up with some stuff we can sell to foreigners before we all end up busking in front of each other.

His house was then burned to the ground.

Last night a spokesman for the United Nations said: "Britain needs to go **** itself in the face."

[Babylon]

The vortex of indignation began just after 7pm when Jeremy Clarkson, the country's highest ranking oaf, presented, without a hint of irony, his detailed plan to shoot public sector workers in front of their families.

Within moments Tony Parsons, the official Left-Wing Clarkson, said people who criticise public sector workers were Nazis while, John Prescott, the former Lord High Oaf, said his successor was guilty of a 'hate crime'.

In turn Parsons was accused of outrageous anti-Semitism while Prescott was forced to deny being deputy leader of the Khmer Rouge during the 1970s.

Seconds later the country was straining at the limits of its 140 character allowance in a bid to react to the reaction reactions in a way that was guaranteed to provoke a reaction.

Bill McKay said: "People who compare strike critics to Nazis should be gassed and cremated as part of a huge, secret plan to wipe out Nazi-comparers."

Helen Archer said: "Anyone who thinks Nazi-comparers should be gassed is worse than Jeffrey Dahmer and should be raped in prison three times a day."

Nikki Hollis said: "People who say Nazi-comparers are worse than Jeffrey Dahmer want to rip my mother's heart out, eat it and puke it into a bucket which they...[new tweet] ...will then use to paint the front of my house."

Meanwhile Tom Logan, who suggested that Clarkson's original comment was, perhaps, an advert for a DVD, was accused of being a member of the Ku Klux Klan.

Logan also suggested that instead of reacting to Clarkson reaction reactions we should, perhaps, come up with some stuff we can sell to foreigners before we all end up busking in front of each other.

His house was then burned to the ground.

Last night a spokesman for the United Nations said: "Britain needs to go **** itself in the face."

[Houdini Logic]

Start your own cleaning business. Give me your leaflets and I'll help you get em out to thousands. And get a bike.

Basically, you need to decide what it's possible for you to do and then think in terms of problem/solution until you make it happen.

Where have I heard that before... ?

[Guest MattP]

Where have I heard that before... ?

A time where people were desperate to get work instead of knowing they could rely on the state to prop up their lazy lifestyle?

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

Sorry to say I have little sympathy for those out on strike, if they are not happy come on over into the private sector and try sorting yourself out a pension yourself, I have worked since 1985 paid into a pension for a large part of that time and my pension outlook is bleak, I will probably have to work till I am 67 (if I make it that far) Public sector workers should realise the country cannot afford the pensions they were promised, will public sector workers work till the age of 67? I dont think so, but a large majority of private sector workers will have to, because they cannot afford a decent pension of their own.

Any sympathy those on strike have at the moment will soon disappear, both my kids missed school on wednesday, they were happy but I was not! I could have a rant about teachers and the 'hard life' they claim to have but maybe thats best left alone.

I am a working class middle aged bloke and I am sorry but you dont get my support-

Time for a reality check.

[Houdini Logic]

A time where people were desperate to get work instead of knowing they could rely on the state to prop up their lazy lifestyle? and the last thing they needed was some patronising little shit to tell them to get on their bike

[Guest MattP]

and the relevance of that to today?

[Houdini Logic]

and the relevance of that to today?

You do realise he said the chap looking for a job should 'get a bike'.

That did happen, right?

Maybe I'm losing the plot and that did not in fact happen, but if it did, that's a pretty stupid question to ask

[Thracian]

The vortex of indignation began just after 7pm when Jeremy Clarkson, the country's highest ranking oaf, presented, without a hint of irony, his detailed plan to shoot public sector workers in front of their families.

Within moments Tony Parsons, the official Left-Wing Clarkson, said people who criticise public sector workers were Nazis while, John Prescott, the former Lord High Oaf, said his successor was guilty of a 'hate crime'.

In turn Parsons was accused of outrageous anti-Semitism while Prescott was forced to deny being deputy leader of the Khmer Rouge during the 1970s.

Seconds later the country was straining at the limits of its 140 character allowance in a bid to react to the reaction reactions in a way that was guaranteed to provoke a reaction.

Bill McKay said: "People who compare strike critics to Nazis should be gassed and cremated as part of a huge, secret plan to wipe out Nazi-comparers."

Helen Archer said: "Anyone who thinks Nazi-comparers should be gassed is worse than Jeffrey Dahmer and should be raped in prison three times a day."

Nikki Hollis said: "People who say Nazi-comparers are worse than Jeffrey Dahmer want to rip my mother's heart out, eat it and puke it into a bucket which they...[new tweet] ...will then use to paint the front of my house."

Meanwhile Tom Logan, who suggested that Clarkson's original comment was, perhaps, an advert for a DVD, was accused of being a member of the Ku Klux Klan.

Logan also suggested that instead of reacting to Clarkson reaction reactions we should, perhaps, come up with some stuff we can sell to foreigners before we all end up busking in front of each other.

His house was then burned to the ground.

Last night a spokesman for the United Nations said: "Britain needs to go **** itself in the face."