Todays strikes.

[Finnegan]

"Achieve", "industry?"

Does it even come in to your world view at all that people may not get in to teaching to get filthy fucking rich, have an amazingly big house and a showy car?

Does it occur to you at all that a lot of people get in to teaching because they genuinely see the benefit and the beauty of passing on knowledge to new generations? Of having the chance to improve young people's lives?

That's a pretty big achievement.

[Nick]

Go on, explain to me the wonderous things I could achieve in the teaching industry? Impress me Nick.

You could nurture critical thought and reflection in people so they don't make sweeping statements about the aspirations of thousands of people they don't know?

[Webbo]

You could nurture critical thought and reflection in people

That wasn't my experience at school and I don't think it's my kids' experience either.

[Guest MattP]

"Achieve", "industry?"

Does it even come in to your world view at all that people may not get in to teaching to get filthy fucking rich, have an amazingly big house and a showy car?

Does it occur to you at all that a lot of people get in to teaching because they genuinely see the benefit and the beauty of passing on knowledge to new generations? Of having the chance to improve young people's lives?

That's a pretty big achievement.

A few I imagine would, like I say the ones I speak to nowadays I don't get that impression at all. I doubt much wisdom and knowledge is passed through the National Curriculum textbooks nowadays.

The ones being interviewed yesterday could barely get a coherent sentence across.

If I have children I'll be seriously considering Thracs route of removing them from the current brainwashing they seem to receive, if wasn't for the social skills they would lack it would be a no brainer.

Being fithly rich doesn't make you happy either and shouldn't be something to aspire to, there is a hundred things more important in terms of quality of life than money.

[Houdini Logic]

That wasn't my experience at school and I don't think it's my kids' experience either.

Well then surely it's something we should encourage by getting the right people into the right teaching roles, with the right compensation packages to go with it?

[Guest MattP]

You could nurture critical thought and reflection in people so they don't make sweeping statements about the aspirations of thousands of people they don't know?

Like not calling colleagues scabs who don't decide to strike?

[Nick]

That wasn't my experience at school and I don't think it's my kids' experience either.

My experience of plumbers and policeman isn't brilliant either but I'm not so blind that I put them all in the same bag and hit them with stereotypes.

[Nick]

Like not calling colleagues scabs who don't decide to strike?

I didn't strike. I also drove way too fast through/at the picket line to notice anybody say or shout anything.

[Webbo]

Well then surely it's something we should encourage by getting the right people into the right teaching roles, with the right compensation packages to go with it?

You'd think so wouldn't you?

[Guest MattP]

I didn't strike. I also drove way too fast through/at the picket line to notice anybody say or shout anything.

I was referring to the email sky have got sent by the high ranking member of Unison today.

[dave the caveman]

It's laughable that anyone bothers to pretend that the strikes were about anything deeper than the workers simply wanting more money in their pockets and to hell with the consequences.

And all the while they're saying: OH BUT OMG DEM PRIVATE SECTOR CEOz DER WAGES R OBSCENE!!!11 DEY SO GREEDY DEY DONT DESERVE IT! GIVE SUM DAT MONEY BAK TO D POOR THE ONES HU AINT GOT A JOB. DEY DESERVE IT MORE, JUST BECUZ DER POOR, N THAT!!!

But wait, aren't you the ones crippling the economy because you want more money at the expense of someone else? Why yes, yes you are. But you're not greedy, right? Because you only want £50k a year for pressing some buttons on a ****ing train. OH NOES I AINT GREEDY I'M PERFECT. NO NEED TO TAKE MONEY FROM ME AND GIVE IT TO THE POOR OH NO. NO NEED FOR DAT. I WANT TO GET PAID MORE BUT I AINT UP FOR GIVIN ANY OV MY HARD EARNED DJ DOLLAR TO NO SCROUNGER NO WAY.

But wait, weren't you just saying....

OH YEAH BUT SEE NOW ITS DIFFRENT WHEN IT COMEZ TO GIVIN MY MONEY AWAY TO 'ELP THE ECONOMY IT'S A BIG NO NO. AINT NO WAY I'M TAKING A CUT TO HELP THE ECONOMY AND D POORER PEOPLE WHEN DERS DEM CEOz IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR EARNIN WHAT DEY EARN. OBSCENE IT IS. DAT PRIVATE SECTOR IS ALWAYS GIVING MONEY AWAY TO PEOPLE WHO DON'T DESERVE IT. EVEYWUN KNOWS THE PUCLIC SECTOR IS WAY MORE EFFICIENT AT SPENDING DAN ANY FREE MARKET.

Oh ok. Yes. I imagine profit driven businesses in a capitalist market do give large sums of money away for no reason whatsoever. It couldn't possibly be due to some basic economic principle like supply and demand and the fact that people able to effectively drive large businesses through constantly changing commercial climates while increasing profit and growth are extremely rare. It couldn't be that...

NO DEF NOT ABSOLUTELY NOT ITS WELL EASY BEIN A CEO DEY DONT EVEN DO ANYTHIN. BUT LISTEN RIGHT ALL I WANT IS MORE MONEY RIGHT THATS ALL REALLY I JUST DONT WANT ANYONE TAKING MY MONEY.

Solution for you, clueless idiotic fool: become a private sector CEO. Easy.

[The Doctor]

It's laughable that anyone bothers to pretend that the strikes were about anything deeper than the workers simply wanting more money in their pockets and to hell with the consequences.

And all the while they're saying: OH BUT OMG DEM PRIVATE SECTOR CEOz DER WAGES R OBSCENE!!!11 DEY SO GREEDY DEY DONT DESERVE IT! GIVE SUM DAT MONEY BAK TO D POOR THE ONES HU AINT GOT A JOB. DEY DESERVE IT MORE, JUST BECUZ DER POOR, N THAT!!!

But wait, aren't you the ones crippling the economy because you want more money at the expense of someone else? Why yes, yes you are. But you're not greedy, right? Because you only want £50k a year for pressing some buttons on a ****ing train. OH NOES I AINT GREEDY I'M PERFECT. NO NEED TO TAKE MONEY FROM ME AND GIVE IT TO THE POOR OH NO. NO NEED FOR DAT. I WANT TO GET PAID MORE BUT I AINT UP FOR GIVIN ANY OV MY HARD EARNED DJ DOLLAR TO NO SCROUNGER NO WAY.

But wait, weren't you just saying....

OH YEAH BUT SEE NOW ITS DIFFRENT WHEN IT COMEZ TO GIVIN MY MONEY AWAY TO 'ELP THE ECONOMY IT'S A BIG NO NO. AINT NO WAY I'M TAKING A CUT TO HELP THE ECONOMY AND D POORER PEOPLE WHEN DERS DEM CEOz IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR EARNIN WHAT DEY EARN. OBSCENE IT IS. DAT PRIVATE SECTOR IS ALWAYS GIVING MONEY AWAY TO PEOPLE WHO DON'T DESERVE IT. EVEYWUN KNOWS THE PUCLIC SECTOR IS WAY MORE EFFICIENT AT SPENDING DAN ANY FREE MARKET.

Oh ok. Yes. I imagine profit driven businesses in a capitalist market do give large sums of money away for no reason whatsoever. It couldn't possibly be due to some basic economic principle like supply and demand and the fact that people able to effectively drive large businesses through constantly changing commercial climates while increasing profit and growth are extremely rare. It couldn't be that...

NO DEF NOT ABSOLUTELY NOT ITS WELL EASY BEIN A CEO DEY DONT EVEN DO ANYTHIN. BUT LISTEN RIGHT ALL I WANT IS MORE MONEY RIGHT THATS ALL REALLY I JUST DONT WANT ANYONE TAKING MY MONEY.

Solution for you, clueless idiotic fool: become a private sector CEO. Easy.

Indeed, how dare people have a bit of belief in others and be opposed to years of lies and broken promises.

[dave the caveman]

Indeed, how dare people have a bit of belief in others and be opposed to years of lies and broken promises.

What belief in others? The strikes were about them having money taken from them, nothing else. Any sensible person knows that public sector workers have been on the gravy train for far too long. This is one of those things that left wing pansies always get wrong. You should be against people taking a free ride, not for it. Just because someone is attempting to STICK IT TO THE MAN does not mean their motives are automatically moral. Stop reading the guradian, start living in reality.

[Nick]

What belief in others? The strikes were about them having money taken from them, nothing else. Any sensible person knows that public sector workers have been on the gravy train for far too long. This is one of those things that left wing pansies always get wrong. You should be against people taking a free ride, not for it. Just because someone is attempting to STICK IT TO THE MAN does not mean their motives are automatically moral. Stop reading the guradian, start living in reality.

And which newspaper represents 'reality', Dave?

[Jon the Hat]

"Achieve", "industry?"

Does it even come in to your world view at all that people may not get in to teaching to get filthy fucking rich, have an amazingly big house and a showy car?

Does it occur to you at all that a lot of people get in to teaching because they genuinely see the benefit and the beauty of passing on knowledge to new generations? Of having the chance to improve young people's lives?

That's a pretty big achievement.

Doesn't that get beaten out of them by the national curriculum and the overbearing centralised regulation of schools which Labour created?

[FoxyPV]

Gullible? Maybe, I don't blame them, if you see a good thing you would be mad not to sign for it, I'm genuinely surprised at how many actually seriously thought it was possible though to be paying this out in 20 years, that's probably why they are in the public sector, apart from coppers and firemen they do seem to live a fantasy world. Like Thrac said earlier, the grammar I see from most kids nowadays you can tell the standard has slipped, teaching used to be respected profession based on discipline, dignity, education and decency. People you looked at and really respected. The ones I speak to now come across as glorified social workers.

The firemen - who were on strike last year/ two years ago over pay and conditions?

You can't turn every child into a genius and even getting some kids through school without them either ending up in jail or killing themselves is an achievement. Education is not valued in our society - grades are - and the two definitely don't go hand in hand.

You can only teach what's in front of you. If the love of learning hasn't been fostered in a child from a very young age then you are battling against it. Add to social factors, peer pressure, greater administrative duties, results focused teaching rather than actual learning, and a rejection of critical thinking and philosophy within our culture as a whole, you'll soon find that you are pissing into the wind.

Go on, explain to me the wonderous things I could achieve in the teaching industry? Impress me Nick.

You don't choose teaching for the money, you choose it because you want to do it. Trying to impart knowledge to a crowd of teenagers is not my idea of fun.

I've always found that the people who criticise teaching the most, have never worked with children on a consistent basis and have no idea what it's like.

[Babylon]

My favourite comment (other than the guy on c4 saying Clarksons comments glamourised gun crime), was the teacher who said "we're not doing this for ourselves, we're making a stand for everyone".... Come on mate, let's not kid ourselves here!

[Guest MattP]

My favourite comment (other than the guy on c4 saying Clarksons comments glamourised gun crime), was the teacher who said "we're not doing this for ourselves, we're making a stand for everyone".... Come on mate, let's not kid ourselves here!

Of course, we all the remember the protests last summer when the private sector were having their pensions torn to shreds.

[Nationwider]

I completely understand why the strikers are striking, I would do the same in their position.

However, I don't regard this as a strike against the government, but more as a strike against taxpayers / the private sector as it is us who will have to pay more. Government's do not have money, they use our money. You can therefore understand why I don't support the strike.

That's the entirely rational mirror of my point of view, so I can't really argue it. Although with the Government's do not have money, they use our money stuff, aren't we just showboating to the masses with a pointless truism?

On a different note (and not aimed at breadandcheese), comparing public and private sector jobs can be like comparing apples and pears at times, but in my case - and for the majority of people in my union - there are obvious comparators and they earn, as a matter of public record, more than civil servants. I'm not going to get drawn into some asinine debate along the lines of "...oooh why don't you just join the private sector then" - because the reasons are too numerous to mention (and as its my life, it's no-one else's fúcking business!).

Of course I'll accept changes to my pension - I did without dissent a few years back. So will the vast majority of my union's members. But what's been proposed is a disproportionate smash and grab on my remuneration package, not the liberation of something that was never mine in the first place. Be warned George, Danny etc - you'll get want you pay for. My department failed to fill x% of its recruitment scheme last year because the graduates weren't good enough - and in a time of mass graduate unemployment as well. I don't think that's all down to falling standards in education - you can guess where the other two-thirds (presumably the smartest ones) will have gone.

On the subject of Clarkson, much of the civil service has suffered a massive SOH fail today. When I heard the soundbite, I actually laughed. Heard in context, it was satire - not exactly cutting edge - but bless his little white towelling socks, he was trying. And what sort of editorial fúck-up gets Clarkson on TV to talk about public expenditure anyway? That's miles more scary than my pension. Ironic as well, as he's probably cost the taxpayer £000s over the years in BBC legal fees.

[Cat Burger]

I'm a teacher in London and I was out yesterday with the other 50,000 people holding a placard! I'll do it again. Deal with it.

[Charl91]

Doing my PGCE next year. Bad timing really

[Guest Basildon Fox]

Can anyone inform me, what have the strikes actually achieved? Has our ability to be able to honor any previous agreeement increased due to a mass public sector walk out? Have the strikes forced the government to relent? If the answer is no then was it worth it?

I can understand people personally affected being upset but let me ask this. Have they recently seen 15% of their work colleagues made redundant? Are the pension schemes still more attractive than the private sector? Lastly, because of the mass walk of teachers meant a lot of parents could not go to work. How much has this drop in productivity cost the nation?

I work for an insurance company and we have recently let 15% of the workforce go. I am currently on a night shift with a chap 2 years away from retirement. He has paid into several pensions over the years and because they have performed so badly he will be lucky to clear a couple of hundred quid a week with them. Can he go on strike and if so do you think he will have a job at the end of the strike? Should he blame the current government for what has happened to him or would it be fair to suggest he is paying the price for a succession of poorly run governments (not least the last Labour Government)?

[Finnegan]

Can anyone inform me, what have the strikes actually achieved? Has our ability to be able to honor any previous agreeement increased due to a mass public sector walk out? Have the strikes forced the government to relent? If the answer is no then was it worth it?

I can understand people personally affected being upset but let me ask this. Have they recently seen 15% of their work colleagues made redundant? Are the pension schemes still more attractive than the private sector? Lastly, because of the mass walk of teachers meant a lot of parents could not go to work. How much has this drop in productivity cost the nation?

I work for an insurance company and we have recently let 15% of the workforce go. I am currently on a night shift with a chap 2 years away from retirement. He has paid into several pensions over the years and because they have performed so badly he will be lucky to clear a couple of hundred quid a week with them. Can he go on strike and if so do you think he will have a job at the end of the strike? Should he blame the current government for what has happened to him or would it be fair to suggest he is paying the price for a succession of poorly run governments (not least the last Labour Government)?

Yeah, that's sort of the point...

Though a one day strike will never really have the government falling over themselves, it was more a protest than an actual attempt to bring the nation to a stand-still.

I'd like to think N30 displayed a willingness by the unions to carry out their threats but I can't really see prolonged strikes to really enforce demands.

[Thracian]

I'm a teacher in London and I was out yesterday with the other 50,000 people holding a placard! I'll do it again. Deal with it.

I did. I took my son out of school permanently so he didn't have be be taught by people like yourself who couldn't be relied upon to do their job and who relied on gang warfare to solve problems. I wanted my son to be taught not to be a pawn either in your politics or anyone else's.

[AoWW]

I did. I took my son out of school permanently so he didn't have be be taught by people like yourself who couldn't be relied upon to do their job and who relied on gang warfare to solve problems. I wanted my son to be taught not to be a pawn either in your politics or anyone else's.

I'm confused, where was this so-called 'gang warfare'?